Universal Health Care

[Zhukov]

A commission on healthcare spending or cuts does not equal the deliberate and systematic elimination of a racial or religious group. Even if we push things to extremes and imagine that Death Panels exist solely to prevent people from getting treatment, letting people die of their own accord isn't really the most efficient genocide I've heard of.

Oh, and another brilliant piece of idiocy from you; if the Death Panels (seriously, I've heard enough of this phrase) are committing genocide on US citizens.... then... surely the Death Panels are made up of US citizens? Right? I mean, are they eliminating themselves as a national group? Really? They are destroying themselves ON PURPOSE through the use of dangerous new weapons such as letting people die of their own accord? The Death Panels are committing genocide on US citizens, which include themselves.


Do you think about things before you type them?


Genocide?



Come on.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

A commission on healthcare spending or cuts does not equal the deliberate and systematic elimination of a racial or religious group. Even if we push things to extremes and imagine that Death Panels exist solely to prevent people from getting treatment, letting people die of their own accord isn't really the most efficient genocide I've heard of.

Oh, and another brilliant piece of idiocy from you; if the Death Panels (seriously, I've heard enough of this phrase) are committing genocide on US citizens.... then... surely the Death Panels are made up of US citizens? Right? I mean, are they eliminating themselves as a national group? Really? They are destroying themselves ON PURPOSE through the use of dangerous new weapons such as letting people die of their own accord? The Death Panels are committing genocide on US citizens, which include themselves.


Do you think about things before you type them?

So what do you believe this new commission that's meant to reign in costs will do? Give out cookies and blankets?

I've decided that you're just disagreeing with me to be silly. No one in there right mind could disagree with the facts in front of your face.

500 billion dollars in cuts to social services = death

New Commission on cuttting costs = death

More money for the insurance companies = death

But no...its all wrong....they must be doing good...they must have our best interests.....right? right?

The Washington commission, called the Health Technology Assessment, is manned by 11 bureaucrats, including a chiropractor and a "naturopath" who focuses on alternative, er, remedies like herbs and massage therapy. They consider the clinical effectiveness but above all the cost of medical procedures and technologies. If they decide something isn't worth the money, then Olympia won't cover it for some 750,000 Medicaid patients, public employees and prisoners.
So far, the commission has banned knee arthroscopy for osteoarthritis, discography for chronic back pain, and implantable infusion pumps for pain not related to cancer. This year, it is targeting such frivolous luxuries as knee replacements, spinal cord stimulation, a specialized autism therapy and MRIs of the abdomen, pelvis or breasts for cancer. It will also rule on routine ultrasounds for pregnancy, which have a "high" efficacy but also a "high" cost.
Currently, the commission is pushing through the most restrictive payment policy in the nation for drug-eluting cardiac stents—simply because bare metal stents are cheaper, even as they result in worse outcomes. If a patient is wheeled into the operating room with chest pains in an emergency, doctors will first have to determine if he's covered by a state plan, then the diameter of his blood vessels and his diabetic condition to decide on the appropriate stent. If they don't, Washington will not reimburse them for "inappropriate care."

From the same article.

[Colonel Flagg]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

No one in there right mind could disagree with the facts in front of your face.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

Its fine to disagree with others. [...]
It's OK for people to think differently.

Oh. OK - so it's "Do as I say, not as I do." I get it.

[Zhukov]

Genocide?



I don't care about Death Panels or their existence.




GENOCIDE?



How is it genocide?

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

Oh. OK - so it's "Do as I say, not as I do." I get it.

More grumbles and snipes i see?

I was just expressing my opinion that no one who looks at the facts I set in front of them could possibly mistake that as not being a Death Panel.

If Zhukov still doesn't want to believe it.....it's hard for me to believe he's sincere....but I have to allow him to come to his own conclusion.

Once again,

Get over it Flagg.

Originally Posted by Zhukov

I don't care about Death Panels or their existence.

Wait? You don't care about Death Panels anymore? Why.....because I just proved their existence?

The Washington commission, called the Health Technology Assessment, is manned by 11 bureaucrats, including a chiropractor and a "naturopath" who focuses on alternative, er, remedies like herbs and massage therapy. They consider the clinical effectiveness but above all the cost of medical procedures and technologies. If they decide something isn't worth the money, then Olympia won't cover it for some 750,000 Medicaid patients, public employees and prisoners.
So far, the commission has banned knee arthroscopy for osteoarthritis, discography for chronic back pain, and implantable infusion pumps for pain not related to cancer. This year, it is targeting such frivolous luxuries as knee replacements, spinal cord stimulation, a specialized autism therapy and MRIs of the abdomen, pelvis or breasts for cancer. It will also rule on routine ultrasounds for pregnancy, which have a "high" efficacy but also a "high" cost.
Currently, the commission is pushing through the most restrictive payment policy in the nation for drug-eluting cardiac stents—simply because bare metal stents are cheaper, even as they result in worse outcomes. If a patient is wheeled into the operating room with chest pains in an emergency, doctors will first have to determine if he's covered by a state plan, then the diameter of his blood vessels and his diabetic condition to decide on the appropriate stent. If they don't, Washington will not reimburse them for "inappropriate care."

From the same article.

Here it is one more time for anyone who missed it.....

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

Wait? You don't care about Death Panels anymore? Why.....because I just proved their existence?

Yeah, you certainly did.

In actual fact though, I have never cared if they existed or not. I'm just pulling you up on your constant use of the word genocide.

How is a death panel committing genocide?

[Colonel Flagg]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

Oh. OK - so it's "Do as I say, not as I do." I get it.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

More grumbles and snipes i see?

Actually, Coolster, I was just pointing out two posts of yours that I read within a few minutes of each other. No trolling, no grumbling, just two direct quotations from your esteemed self. Showing, incidentally what kind of person you really are.

I should amend your second quotation above -

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

Its fine to disagree with others. Just so long as you agree with me.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

Get over it Flagg.

I am over it. I'm actually having fun with it. Can you say the same thing?

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

I am over it.

If you're over it why are you acting like every other person who I proved wrong online?

1. Follow me around the forum mumbling incoherently

2. Short snipes in every topic I post

3. Never challenging what I say but attacking me personally.

How old are you again?

Originally Posted by Dimnos

What we have been REPEATEDLY telling you is that what you call a "death panel" ALREADY EXISTS.

Like most of Europe, the various health bills stipulate that Congress will arbitrarily decide how much to spend on health care for seniors every year—and then invest an unelected board with extraordinary powers to dictate what is covered and how it will be paid for. White House budget director Peter Orszag calls this Medicare commission "critical to our fiscal future" and "one of the most potent reforms."
.......

Worse, it makes little room for medical innovations. The commission is mandated to go after "sources of excess cost growth," meaning treatments that are too expensive or whose coverage will boost spending. If researchers find a pricey treatment for Alzheimer's in 2020, that might be banned because it would add new costs and bust the global budget. Or it might decide that "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller,"

This^ Death panel, which you all denied existed until I showed it to you was not always here. This is a new one. Much different then the insurance companies death panels. why you may ask? because this is now mandated by the government.....with government officials leading it. See the difference?

Good.


Hope & Change!

[Colonel Flagg]

I said I was over it, meaning over the relentless babbling on about all the things that you know to be right and why we're all blind, deaf and dumb for not seeing it too. Your response?

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

If you're over it why are you acting like every other person who I proved wrong online?

1. Follow me around the forum mumbling incoherently

2. Short snipes in every topic I post

3. Never challenging what I say but attacking me personally.

I haven't attacked you personally. I don't even know your real name. What I am pointing out to you (which in your view I guess is attacking) is your inconsistent arguments, citing of biased opinion pieces from reliable news outlets (they're called "columns"), fringe bloggers that support your worldview, etc.

For the record, I have responded once or twice in a rather (for me) long-winded manner about what I believe and why, and they have largely gone either unread (apparently), ridiculed (frequently) or ignored (most often) by you. This is the norm rather than the exception, and I believe many others have felt the same way.

As for sniping at you in every topic in which you post, I don't visit the gaming forum much, where you are quite active, so you're wrong again, dude.

Lastly, I guess you must be right about the "mumbling incoherently" part - I mean, you should know, right?

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

How old are you again?

Check out the calender, or my profile, if you're really interested.

[The Leader]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

If you're over it why are you acting like every other person who I proved wrong online?

Who are these people?

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I believe the original inquiry was "Does Obamacare have Death Panels?"

Correct?

and we found out it does through my diligent research. Your Welcome.

Uh, when I pointed out that I couldn't read a paper that was referenced in an article that you posted without joining some mailing list you directed me back to the article, not the actual paper that it was referencing. If you don't understand why a peer reviewed journal or scholarly article is more credible than a blog then I don't really think that you can prove anything to anyone who is semi intelligent.

I have a serious question, are you for all of these things, the death panels, corporations running the government, etc? I'm wondering because while you post almost nothing but all of these decidedly negative viewpoints, one of your suggestions to me via pm was to get a job. You've also mentioned how you have a corporate job so I am just wondering if you support these corporations and their manipulations? I get a decidedly negative feeling from your posts but the fact that you claim to not follow the masses while suggesting people support the corporations, which I think are ruining the world, causes some confusion.