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RaNkeri RaNkeri is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:43 PM       
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Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
Speaking of "doctorin'" - how's med school? You are still in med school, right?
Yes, and everything's fine


I actually posted the exact same thing earlier, but coolie promptly ignored it.
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 03:36 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
Tadao said we aren't allowed to post articles anymore. Have to take it up with him. I'm sure if you search engine "Food additives / Chemicals absorbed through ingestion" you will find a tons of literature on it.
You're allowed to post links to support an argument. You aren't allowed to post only links in lieu of making an argument.

But if I understand what you're saying, it's that harmful stuff likes to live in fat. Okay? It doesn't increase fat, though.

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"Within Limits" and "All you can eat" are contradictory.


"Within limits" is a disclaimer, without which my statement could have meant that I thought someone could chug 10 pounds of pure cholesterol and be a-ok. "All you can eat" refers to the normal or even most excessive amounts of a food that someone would eat. Do you give similar shit to people who run buffets? OH HO HO IT IS NOT ALL I CAN EAT IF YOU KICK ME OUT AFTER I STAY HERE FOR 16 HOURS AND TRY TO SLEEP IN THE BOOTH, I WAS NOT DONE

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Wouldn't they be one in the same? Yes, the Human body needs fat supplies to survive but if one is over weight due to the amount of toxic chemicals, preservative, and additive in the food they eat (I'm not even going to mention GMO) wouldn't that make them unhealthy?
No. Fat is not always equatable to poor health. Your body needs a certain percentage of bodyfat, and that requirement actually goes up the more active you are. Cyanide is also pretty unhealthy but isn't linked to obesity. Not all fat is unhealthy and not all unhealthy crap is fattening. Kinda obvious.

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I've never came across someone who actually defended MSG. Its a well known excitotoxin. Remember back in the day when all the Chinese Food restaurants had signs on their places that said "NO MSG here"? And food makers use the synthetic form of MSG. Dr. Russel Blaylock has some good videos up on Youtube about the effects of MSG, obesity, and neurological disorders because of it.
I didn't defend MSG, I just said that it's pretty natural as additives go. Your argument was originally that synthetics were unhealthy and therefore fattening. MSG isn't really a synthetic.

I've noticed, though, that you're more than willing to divorce yourself from whatever point you're making to attack whatever you perceive to be the weakest part of my point.

Why? I'm not setting you straight on nutrition because I love internet combat, I'm doing it because there's a lot of stupid misinformation out there and your perception was especially stupid. I felt that I must stop you before someone listens, and maybe you could learn something in the process and not misinform people in real life who likely don't know any better.

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HFCS are not regular sugar. They are synthetic and the fructose levels are higher. Regular organic cane sugar has 50 Fructose / 50 Glucose. The body can't handle the high amount of fructose from HFCS and it literally rots out the pancreas while also making the individual put on masses amounts of weight.
Everything but the last sentence: Who cares?
The last sentence: why would it make someone 'put on masses amounts of weight' any more than any other sweetener?

Quote:
Now add some food additives like MSG and you an Obesity epidemic.
How? HFCS is no more to blame for fatness than any other kind of sugar (replace your mountain dew habit with "mountain dew throwback" and let me know how much weight you lose), and MSG doesn't make people fat. HFCS and MSG may be unhealthy, but as we've already established, poisons are not necessarily fattening. They aren't even usually fattening.

Quote:
And this quote is from the original article at the beginning of the thread. The first thing I say to myself after reading this is if we're not built to process this.......then how can we possibly be built to process synthetics, preservatives, additives, and other genetically modified ingredients?
Because synthetics are simply non-organic breakdowns of whole sources. Your body organically breaks down the same sources into usable compounds that share 99.9999% of the same characteristics. You might as well ask why we can perceive fluorescent light.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:14 PM       
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Originally Posted by Esuohlim View Post
Well it's just that alcohol is considered a toxin that the human body does not need to function so I'm just wondering what your opinion is on it
Like I said before,

People don't use alcohol to brush there teeth nor is it added to the municipal water supply. Sodium Fluoride is.

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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
But if I understand what you're saying, it's that harmful stuff likes to live in fat. Okay? It doesn't increase fat, though.
I'm just stating that unnatural chemicals added to food find their way to fat deposits because they are difficult to digest and the body has no use for them. They can also interfere with the normal digestion process making it inefficient.

This quote is from the original article on page 1 of this thread:
Quote:
"This is the first evidence we have that fructose increases diabetes and heart disease independently from causing simple weight gain," lead researcher Kimber Stanhope said. "We didn't see any of these changes in the people eating glucose."

The effect seems to occur because fructose is not broken down in the digestive system like other sugars are. Instead, it moves directly into the liver, where it interferes with that organ's ability to process fat.
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
No. Fat is not always equatable to poor health.
I understand that. We all need some fat in our bodies. That's understood. Hence why I stated that word for word in my last response. I'm saying that obese people who have been eating junk artificial chemical ridden food are unhealthy and they are obese because they eat too much high calorie food AND they are eating foods laced with these chemicals.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
I didn't defend MSG, I just said that it's pretty natural as additives go. Your argument was originally that synthetics were unhealthy and therefore fattening. MSG isn't really a synthetic.
See, it's either synthetic or its organic. You can't have both. The junk they use in our food that has been studied in laboratories to make rats obese and double their appetites are synthetic. It's added to most food and its under numerous names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Everything but the last sentence: Who cares?
The last sentence: why would it make someone 'put on masses amounts of weight' any more than any other sweetener?
Who cares?

You can't compare the two substances. Sugar and HFCS are extremely different substances and have very different effects on the body. Hence the article I posted in the beginning.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
How? HFCS is no more to blame for fatness than any other kind of sugar (replace your mountain dew habit with "mountain dew throwback" and let me know how much weight you lose), and MSG doesn't make people fat. HFCS and MSG may be unhealthy, but as we've already established, poisons are not necessarily fattening. They aren't even usually fattening.
It's scientifically proven that people who eat diets high in HFCS, MSG, and other additives weigh more and are less healthy then people who don't eat these substances.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Because synthetics are simply non-organic breakdowns of whole sources.
They are called synthetics for a reason. They are chemicals put together in a lab to mimic the natural chemicals.

Even if they taste the same or have no taste at all the body still has to take different steps to break down these synthetic chemicals. Like I said with HFCS. The body is acknowledges organic sugar cane with its 50 % glucose / fructose structure. If you change that structure the body has added pressure put on its organs.

These synthetics are not safe. They never have been. They are just cheaper substitutes for real ingredients. They are dangerous and they lead to obesity and other degenerative ailments.


Articles:

Quote:
Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury

Almost half of tested samples of commercial high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) contained mercury, which was also found in nearly a third of 55 popular brand-name food and beverage products where HFCS is the first- or second-highest labeled ingredient, according to two new U.S. studies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012601831.html
Quote:
High-Fructose Corn Syrup and Diabetes

Roughly $40 billion in federal subsidies are going to pay corn growers, so that corn syrup is able to replace cane sugar. corn syrup has been singled out by many health experts as one of the chief culprits of rising obesity, because corn syrup does not turn off appetite. Since the advent of corn syrup, consumption of all sweeteners has soared, as have people's weights. According to a 2004 study reported in the American journal of Clinical Nutrition, the rise of Type-2 diabetes since 1980 has closely paralleled the increased use of sweeteners, particularly corn syrup.
- There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program by Gabriel Cousens
- Available on Amazon.com

http://www.naturalnews.com/026468_su...orn_syrup.html
Quote:
Surprise Ingredients in Fast Food

The seasoned beef, carne asada steak, spicy shredded chicken, and even the rice all include autolyzed yeast extract (hidden MSG). Disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate are flavor enhancers used in synergy with MSG [7,8]. Therefore, menu items with disodium inosinate and/or disodium guanylate also contain MSG. This includes the avocado ranch dressing, southwest chicken, citrus salsa, creamy jalapeno sauce, creamy lime sauce, lime seasoned red strips, pepper jack sauce, and seasoned rice.

http://www.naturalnews.com/022194.html
Quote:
The link between monosodium glutamate (MSG) and obesity

But how does MSG cause obesity? Like aspartame, MSG is an excitotoxin, a substance that overexcites neurons to the point of cell damage and, eventually, cell death. Humans lack a blood-brain barrier in the hypothalamus, which allows excitotoxins to enter the brain and cause damage, according to Dr. Russell L. Blaylock in his book Excitotoxins. According to animal studies, MSG creates a lesion in the hypothalamus that correlates with abnormal development, including obesity, short stature and sexual reproduction problems.

http://www.naturalnews.com/009379.html
Quote:
Consuming Common Food Additive MSG Increases Risk of Weight Gain

http://www.naturalnews.com/025353_MSG_food_brain.html
Quote:
Consumption of soft drinks and high-fructose corn syrup linked to obesity and diabetes

http://www.naturalnews.com/003002.html
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:40 PM       
Okay, no, that is not how you use articles. When you link to an article, you do so after paraphrasing it when you're making your point. The way you did it, you didn't even cite anything and I'd have to read all of that shit to tell you that it doesn't support your conclusions (aka what I already know).

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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I'm just stating that unnatural chemicals added to food find their way to fat deposits because they are difficult to digest and the body has no use for them. They can also interfere with the normal digestion process making it inefficient.
If your body can't digest it, it passes it. How inefficient does it make the digestion process? My money says "not enough to actually matter".

Quote:
"This is the first evidence we have that fructose increases diabetes and heart disease independently from causing simple weight gain," lead researcher Kimber Stanhope said. "We didn't see any of these changes in the people eating glucose."

The effect seems to occur because fructose is not broken down in the digestive system like other sugars are. Instead, it moves directly into the liver, where it interferes with that organ's ability to process fat.
This is funny because it doesn't support your point. To paraphase part 1: all sugar makes you fat, HFCS is just also kinda poisonous. Okay. They agree with me here that HFCS doesn't make people any more fat than other sweeteners do. Part 2: what happens to improperly processed fat? Does it somehow become SUPER FAT and double in size? Apply critical thinking here.

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I understand that. We all need some fat in our bodies. That's understood. Hence why I stated that word for word in my last response. I'm saying that obese people who have been eating junk artificial chemical ridden food are unhealthy and they are obese because they eat too much high calorie food AND they are eating foods laced with these chemicals.
Your most recent point was that anything that is unhealthy is also fattening. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's how you wrote it. The cause for obesity is 99% high calorie food and maybe, maybe 1% due to Dr. Robotnik's evil chemicals. The entire reason there's so much literature on the subject in the mass media is that people want to believe that something other than themselves is to blame. You are propagating that myth with this nonsense.

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See, it's either synthetic or its organic. You can't have both. The junk they use in our food that has been studied in laboratories to make rats obese and double their appetites are synthetic. It's added to most food and its under numerous names.
You are confusing cause and effect. Very likely, the rats became obese because the MSG increased their appetite and they therefore increased their calorie intake. This is very different from MSG directly making them fat.

Quote:
You can't compare the two substances. Sugar and HFCS are extremely different substances and have very different effects on the body. Hence the article I posted in the beginning.
You can compare the two substances because they have the same effects on the body and have the same exact nutritional content. HFCS just also has some purported side effects, none of which are convincingly related to obesity. The negative side effects of HFCS are tremendously irrelevant when compared to the negative direct effects of all sugars.

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It's scientifically proven that people who eat diets high in HFCS, MSG, and other additives weigh more and are less healthy then people who don't eat these substances.
You are again confusing cause and effect. People with diets high in HFCS and MSG are already eating calorie-dense garbage. The foods that don't contain those things are lesser in scope. By eating HFCS and MSG, we know that those people are eating junk foods, since those are the only foods that contain that crap. We do not know the same things about people who do not eat HFCS and MSG. This does not imply that HFCS and MSG are to blame. If you cut HFCS and MSG out of your diet, you are also cutting a lot of garbage out that incidentally contains that crap.

Again, the calorie content of a 20oz mountain dew (with HFCS) and a 20oz mountain dew throwback (without HFCS) is the EXACT SAME. Are you seriously suggesting that someone would gain less weight when drinking the throwback?

Quote:
They are called synthetics for a reason. They are chemicals put together in a lab to mimic the natural chemicals.

Even if they taste the same or have no taste at all the body still has to take different steps to break down these synthetic chemicals. Like I said with HFCS. The body is acknowledges organic sugar cane with its 50 % glucose / fructose structure. If you change that structure the body has added pressure put on its organs.
Define "pressure on the organs". I'm beginning to think that you're just regurgitating language you read in some womens' fitness magazine.

Quote:
These synthetics are not safe. They never have been. They are just cheaper substitutes for real ingredients.
They're safe enough to pass FDA standards, which means that any poisons they contain are trace enough to not matter.

Quote:
They are dangerous and they lead to obesity and other degenerative ailments.
This is misleading. A cherry-flavored bullet is also dangerous to the head, but it isn't the cherry that does it.

Last edited by Chojin : May 6th, 2010 at 06:51 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 08:11 PM       
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Thank you for pointing that out. I'll just stick with having shit breath.
That would be your solution to a problem.

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Sodium fluoride is used in fluoridation of water, and is present in such low doses so the beneficial effects (reduction of tooth decay) far outweigh any potential health effects (fluorosis, digestive issues)..
omg sorta like how with calcium you can take it to increase your bone density BUT you can also get gout from it if your levels are too high. Calcium's totally a poison! Actually from what I've read Fluoride isn't classified as a poison its classified as toxic, which by the way basically everything on the planet is toxic in high enough dosages.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 10:29 AM       
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Exactly. Life's too short to not be ejaculating as often as possible
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Old May 6th, 2010, 12:25 PM       
We were built to process sugar.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 12:33 PM       
I heard that we do need to intake sugar and the reason we have such a voracious craving for it is because it is normally so scarce in a human's diet. The problem is that now we have ready access to it and put it in everything our bodies cannot handle the amount we're getting so we get the diabetes and other such complications which were relatively unheard of even a hundred years ago.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 01:31 PM       
ahhh, fuck it.



MOMMA TELL ME I'm SUPER HERO!
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Old May 6th, 2010, 02:48 PM       
Can't it do shit like aid in digestion or something?
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Old May 6th, 2010, 03:40 PM       
For the record, I suggested that if someone requests a source, you are more than welcome to post it.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 03:57 PM       
And while we're at it, I really hate the concept that gaining or losing fat involves evil voodoo magic or mad science. Most people seem to have this perception, and it's stupid.

It is actually tremendously simple. Insultingly simple, even.

1 pound of fat = 3500 calories. To lose 1 pound of fat, burn 3500 calories.

Just sitting on your ass, your body burns approximately 2200 kcal/day if you're male and 1800 kcal/day if you're female. This is also assuming that you're only fat and not GOD DAMN fat. At the simplest explanation, if you eat 500 kcal under that every day, you will lose a pound of fat every week (500 x 7 = 3500).

So how do people get fat? THEY EAT OVER THAT AMOUNT. OHGOD

This happens for a variety of reasons, most of which involve people not understanding how many calories are in things that they eat. A big serving of lean chicken breast has a hilariously low amount of calories; like, 300. A big mac has about 600 calories (yes, if you're a male you could eat 3 big macs a day and lose weight, provided you ate nothing else). Side orders and sugared drinks (soda and juice, especially) are a very common source of extra calories.

As an aside, diet sodas are not only FUCKING FINE, they can actually help you burn fat a little bit faster. This is because most people drink soda very cold (colder than they drink their water, anyway), and your body expends energy to maintain its heat when drinking ice-cold beverages (about 120kcal/day if you drink a metric dickload of diet soda).

So, to relate this to the OP, America's obesity problem is mostly due to the American diet involving meals that have a lot of calories. Our meals are often larger than they need to be, and are bundled with sides and sugary drinks. Fries, chips, and cokes have a retarded amount of calories in them. Your average 20 oz. coke has 240 calories in it. If you were eating at maintenance and drinking 3 of those a day, you would lose 1.5 pounds of fat a week by doing nothing but switching to diet coke.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:01 PM       
I have the bad habit of not eating all day and then destroying the refrigerator at night.

I don't understand why this makes me gain weight.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:06 PM       
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Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
I have the bad habit of not eating all day and then destroying the refrigerator at night.

I don't understand why this makes me gain weight.
I know you're being a silly billy, but:

Because your metabolism slows down from not eating all day, lowering the amount of calories your body naturally burns to maintain itself.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:10 PM       
Also I drink too much booze during the day, further slowing my metabolism.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:12 PM       
Alcohol itself also contains 7kcal/gram (before you flavor it or do fucking anything), making it worse than carbs (sodas) and slightly better than fat.

I love Sake to death, but a bottle of that shit has like 900 calories in it.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:15 PM       
A few months ago when I was really concerned about my rapped weight gain, I looked at my Vodka and said, Naw that can't have too many calories, then I googled it. Fucking hell. I was drinking about 10 shots a day easily.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:17 PM       
Yeah, it isn't fair. But luckily, smoking and harder drugs are a-ok where fat is concerned.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:33 PM       
YOU GUYS ARE TELLING ME, I'M THE WHISKEY GUY

IF I DRINK ENOUGH TO GET DRUNK I'LL HAVE CONSUMED THE LIQUID CALORIE EQUIVALENT OF SEVEN BIG MACS
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:34 PM       
The moral of the story is that I can't afford to get completely shitfaced unless I'm drinking Pearl Lights
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:40 PM       
Waidaminute, according to Google whiskey and scotch are only 82 calories a "jigger"

I assume 'jigger' is stupid fuckguage for "shot", so two 2/3 full glasses comes out to be... fuck it, math sucks
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:40 PM       
If only there was a diet pill that a dr. could prescribe to me that would make me as skinny as a meth addict.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:43 PM       
1g of alcohol = 7kcal
1 ounce = 28.3495231 grams
shot = 1.5 oz

1 shot = 42.5g
1 shot of PURE ALCOHOL (200 proof) = ~300 calories
1 shot of 1 proof alcohol = 1.5 calories

Multiply 1.5 by the proof of your liquor to get the calorie content of a shot (prior to any sweeteners).

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Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
If only there was a diet pill that a dr. could prescribe to me that would make me as skinny as a meth addict.
The diet I was on could easily do that if you ignore the exercise component.

Last edited by Chojin : May 6th, 2010 at 04:56 PM. Reason: was using british proofs
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:42 PM       
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They're safe enough to pass FDA standards, which means that any poisons they contain are trace enough to not matter.
but the FDA IS ON IT MAAAN
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:42 PM       
Coolie, those are all from the same website that claimed that medical doctors will lose their licenses if they recommend a patient take a vitamin.
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