IRAN

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Uhhh, ok, I'll respond more later, but the go to a grocery store and talk to a muslim immigrant comment is retarded. Sorry.

[Preechr]

Ok, because there's not a hugely disproportionate Arabic immigrant population in the DC area... mmmkay.

I'm retarded. I've been worse, I suppose...

[Abcdxxxx]

The origins of terrorism aren't a lack of opportunity via poverty...contrary to that, history tells us that terrorism actually grew out of the opprtunities and economic growth in the region.

Poverty is merely the device that the Muslim ruling class use to exploit their people into aspiring towards scary seperatist doctrines. So stop believing the hype, little man....and while we're at it, stop presuming what I think, because by assigning such lazy ass stereotypes, it just makes you look like a bigot....and baiting me to call you one is so 2002. Oh, and when you can't debate me, stop asking me what my peace plan is. I've outlined my thoughts for co-existance about a billion times over, and if it doesn't fit the image you've built up in your head for me, then that's really your own problem to lose sleep over.

Okay though....let's talk about Pakistan, and how well those Nukes have worked out for them. Remember, they disbanded the parliament, and junked their constitution.... their government is less then stable, they have a population boom they can't handle, the number of citizens living in poverty is greater then their unemployment rate, half the adult male population can't read and their greatest expenditure continues to be DEFENSE and DEBT. Sounds like these Nukes take you straight to prosperity. Globalization is happiness!

Now you can dispute any of the problems mentioned above, and the question still remains, how has a nuclear capable Pakistan brought peace to the region ? That is what your advertising Iranian Nukes will do for the Mid-East remember? I mean, who are you kidding. Can you argue that the infleunce/threat of radical Islam has diminished in Pakistan since 1998? Check your timeline, and ask yourself if it's just a coincidence that the Taliban, and Al Qaeda upped the level of their attacks shortly after an Islamic dominant nation became nuclear, and then remind yourself why it is they have all found refuge in Islam's one Nuclear capable state. There must be some reason that almost a decade after announcing they got the bomb, Pakistan's government seeks to suppress the education of extremist Islam, right?

Anyway, the whole idea that you're arguing this as an economy generated issue rather then an intolerance and oppression one, is assinine. Is there a fiscal element to these conflicts? Of course. Do they dictate policy? Sometimes. Does that make your Socialist meets pro-Nuke Globalism song and dance any more applicable? Not on this planet, sorry.

[Johnnie]

I'm currently studying in Israel.. as of what I can feel around this volatile situation right now is that people here are very concerned with Iran, not necessarily (although related) with the whole threat declaration deal, but rather with the indirect war waging (Hizballah) Iran launched towards Israel and how much more would the current government be capable of.
Israel is not taking this lightly at all. Many Israelis feel that the war against Hizballah was a fiasco in terms of mission accomplishments. The government has responded with the replacement of Dan Halutz with Gabi Ashkenazi in the position of ramat-kal (head of the Israeli military). Since then, there has been many changes in the military's policies. Many being more strictly inclined; such as more people having to serve in combat, longer serving time for reserves, and tougher soldier training, among other policies.

To answer the original question. I really doubt the U.S is going to jump on Iran. It seems to me America is just waiting for Israel to do the tougher work (maybe by attacking Syria).

Iran, on the other hand, is feeling very intimidated by now. It knows whatever defense to an American attack it might mount won't matter in the end, which threatens its already tenuous totalitarian hold on it's citizens. Iranian citizens know for a fact how quickly Iraq's regime fell, and their experience with the Iran/Iraq stalemate proves logically that their own government would surely meet the same fate within a few days of our Bradleys crossing the border. No matter how their government might try to lie about this possible future, the people of Iran aren't going to buy it. They know.

1) Where did you get this from? If Iran would had felt intimidated in the slightest, wouldn't you think they would go easier on their nuclear program?

2) I also thought Iran held a totalitarian grasp on its population until I talked to some iranian jewish girls that made Aliyah not long ago. From what they told me, I had it quite understood that their foreign policy does not necessarily reflect how the government runs the country. It's pretty amazing what you can learn from people first hand instead of assuming.

[Preechr]

Well, Johnnie, we get a lot of that here, too. As a matter of fact, if I've got this understood correctly, what's really on the line here is whether or not my wife and daughter are going to be allowed to vote without wearing a burka. Needless to say, I am totally on the side of of the non-Moon-People when it comes to what we should do in this particular situation, and I agree with you fully that if I am not a Jewish person, currently living in the middle east, I have no business having any sort of opinion other than what you tell me to think of my own.

Thanks, back-up dude.

[Abcdxxxx]

Holy shit...is it Preechr's turn to crack up?

Maybe what's really on the line for your wife and daughter is your sanity. You realize Thomas didn't even identify himself as Jewish.

[Preechr]

You're talking about Johnnie, right?

[Abcdxxxx]

Johnnie... Thomas....THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Johnnie

To answer the original question. I really doubt the U.S is going to jump on Iran. It seems to me America is just waiting for Israel to do the tougher work (maybe by attacking Syria).

I disagree. I think the Israeli factor in all of this has actually put us in a pretty tough spot. I think some of the scenarios have Israel taking out supposed nuclear sites, with limited capacity to simultaneously knock out Iranian anti-aircraft and response systems successfully. This is what I've heard from war game scenarios out of the Army War College anyway, and it matches an older report from the same body. LINK

The IAF could hit spots, but not disable Iran's ability to respond. Then you have war, and the U.S. must get in. If Israel were to act alone and attack a muslim nation, I think you would see a massive build up against them from Iran, Syria, and who knows, maybe even a Russia. I think it would be quite different than when they took out the nukes in Iraq. Saddam was a thug that made most in the Arab world uncomfortable. I think this would be different, and it would pull us in.

So then I think the question becomes, if it becomes inevitable that Israel will strike, do we attack first so it gets done right?

[Johnnie]

Dude, I don't see why this was blown out of proportion. All I did was give a viewpoint. I don't agree with a lot of the things the Israeli government does. I just expressed what people around feel is going on.

I don't think you can't have an opinion unless you are a ''jew living in the middle east''. I questioned you because I wanted to hear your opinion.

[Johnnie]

I'm gonna have to agree with you. Israel does not have the capability to make a long term air assault on Iran. I mean, it has never directly fought with a distant country before. There's just no means. I think Syria is another story...being an ally and supplier of Iran.
I hope nothing will happen, things seems pretty gloomy the way they are right now. I think if something happens, the US will have to get involved. I can't answer if the States will attack first or not.

[Abcdxxxx]

I think that's a pretty typical viewpoint in Israel - they don't really want any military strikes, but they want a resolution in their favor, and feel like Syria has it coming.

I don't think Bush will order an attack, unless it's in the Saudi's interest. I don't think there's a chance in hell this administration will give Israel the type of backup it would need even for a strike against Syria. That's a painfull reality Israel will have to come to terms with. So Israel's hands are tied. Who knows though. The strike against Saddam's nukes were chastised all around, at first.