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Ahmednijad's roll in the hostage crisis wasn't enough indication of his ideals?
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He justified his actions regarding that and they fell for it. People are prepared to overlook little facts like these if he's going to talk about things like "the greater good."
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When we talk about Shari'a laws we're talking about the negative aspects of it...stonings, etc.
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No, when we're talking aout the Sharia law we are talking about the Muslim countries that have adopted and adapted to this law, and how they have interpreted/skewed it to fit their own personal needs. It's called a 'law' for a reason, it's what you should live by. If the Royals in Saudi don't want you to do a particular thing, they will slap it in that document and call it 'haram,' which means 'the forbidden,' (i.e, it's against Islam, so don't do it.) Even though it's really not, but if you do it this way, no one can question you, because you'd be considered a Kafir (infidel) and they'd have an excuse to lock you up.
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it has nothing to do with how outsiders percieve or possibly even misconstrue it.
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You see, for example, I think there's a good chance that someone might misunderstand the Sharia law when it comes to stoning, because of the brutal approach and the events that took place in Nigeria and Saudi Arabia, who consider this sort of thing justifiable because it's part of the law. These things receive plenty of media coverage, too, so no doubt would they mislead people into thinking that the Sharia law is a piece of shit crap which is more proof of "the fact" that Islam is gross, sexist, and inconsiderate.
This means that people won't depend on what the Sharia law actually is, they'd depend on what happens in the countries that use it, and like I've already stated before most of it is made up for obvious reasons. It's called having absolute power while trying to brainwash the citizens into thinking that they're being exposed to proper Islam. So they follow it, since many of these people cannot afford a good education, but these people are the kind of people who lack interest in this sort of thing. As long as there's bread on the table and a roof on top of their head, they won't rebel and risk their lives and the lives of their families.
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Really not a great story to use as an example of tolerance or how Jews are your cousins.
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It fits perfectly - Kulturasdfsdfkampf said we HATE Jews, pretty much, and we don't accept them because of their beliefs. The Hadith I referred to shows how forgiving, accepting, and understanding the Prophet is. That is how Muslims should be, therefore, thinking of Jews as our enemies and not our cousins is incredibly wrong, because that's how the Prophet did it, and we should follow his example.
Why don't you look up the history of Yemen and the presence of Christianity there, amongst Islam? Why don't you look up the history of Jordan and look at the presence of Judaism there, amongst Islam? Why don't you look up the history of Lebannon* and see how the Christians and Muslims were living in the same definite terrority? What does that tell you about Islam and tolerance?
(*The civil war was a political and territorial dispute and not religious. Same thing with Iran and Iraq which people constantly misinterpret. Religion is just easier to blame.)
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The translators personal background shouldn't be a factor. Either it's accurate, or it's not.
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Yes, but who the hell decides? You don't know if it's accurate or not ESPECIALLY if you do not speak the language, this is why Muslim converts learn Arabic. This is why Arabic is a requirement in a lot of Indonesian schools, and schools in Bosnia, so they can understand the Koran, not just so they can communicate with the Arabs. These people realize that they have to read it for themselves in order to know what's being said.
For example, Kulturasdfsfkamp has been mislead by the books he's relying on. I suggest you read 'No God but God' by Reza Aslan if you want to be blown away by how wrong he is. It gives you a great history of Islam and its relationships with Christianity and Judaism throughout the years. Through this book you may even understand few parts of the conflicts between Israel and Palestine. This book shines the light on Christianity and Judaism as well, it's not "this is this and that is that," it's "this is this which quite possibly lead to that." It's great for discussion, because it also shows you how the problem is WITHIN Islam, and that the West and other religions are merely bystanders. We are against each other because we disagree with each other's personal opinions and theories, we all strive to be the dominant sub-group of Muslims. Like we disagree with the Shiites because we think that the Koran is our final authority. They disagree with us in that the Prophet Mohammed is the most significant prophet since he was the official messenger. They believe more in Hassan and Hussain.
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OK, but how would you feel if a Muslim who opposed gay marriage posted his views here in a civilized way and yet was unanimously condemned and called a bigot, moron, asshole etc?
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Unless he was being a dick about it, (basically saying that gays shouldn't exist in a polite manner, which I've seen other Muslims do) I'd say it's wrong for those people to have such a reaction. I don't really see what this has to do with anything, though.
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Yes but the problem is, I don't know about the US but a clear majority of UK Muslims want Islamic law introduced into this country.
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Muslims in the UK are paranoid because of things like the BNP. I don't ever agree with how Muslims react in places like the Netherlands and the UK. I don't call this Islam. For the most part it's just a bunch of fucks trying to rile you up and have a laugh about it, honestly. It saddens me that they're destroying a religion and how it's perceived elsewhere by being immature pricks. Though violence against Muslims does exist in the UK. I've had female friends who were threatened and bullied after the London attacks simply for wearing the veil, I don't think that is right. It's understandable, but nothing justfies that sort of behavior.
I live in Switzerland, the Muslims here don't demand anything. We have a small gathering place in an apartment where we pray together on Friday and Sunday. I've asked if anyone would like to see an actual mosque here one of these days, they said it doesn't matter if you're in a mosque or a bowling alley or a park, as long as you're together praying then God knows you're doing it and although a mosque would be nice, it's not a requirement. You'll still have the same amount of blessings if you pray elsewhere, together. It's the unity that counts. The feeling of brotherhood, that sense of community. And outside Islam this should apply in a larger sense - Allah doesn't reject Christianity in its entirity, so why should we? In the end we believe in the same God and manage to live in a place where threats don't exist, because in most religions, unacceptance and dismssing someone else's beliefs as "bullshit" is not tolerable.
Tell me something, okay?
If we supposedly hate people of other religions, why would there be 6 Churches and 2 Bible schools in a country that follows the Sharia law? Why would Imams salute the Christians whose church is right across the street from a mosque I usually go to? Why does no one say anything when the Church bell goes while the Imam is doing his prayers out loud? Why can't we protect ourselves from the "BAD EVIL" non-believers if they're right there? Oh, that's right, it's against our religion!
You're assuming that it's very Muslim to hate others and not accept them just because they follow a system of different beliefs. That is untrue. It is very un-Islamic for anyone to hate Christians, Jews, homosexuals, just because they think and act differently. It doesn't matter in Islam - we are all one no matter WHICH God we believe in, even athiests do not deserve to be hated or judged. It's their decision. That is what the Koran says. It gives YOU limits, it doesn't give you the right to give anyone else limits. If they don't act a certain way, you advice them, but you don't force them to do anything.
Do you know why that is? It's because God is all about testing your faith. Testing your faith and your patience is a big theme in the Koran. If something happens to you, as a Muslim, and you feel unprotected and away from God, then you've lost, because after losing you didn't hold on to a religion that's raised you into the person you are today. You can wake up to a dead wife and a burned house and if you thought "where the fuck was God when this happened?", you didn't read that closely into the Koran, because God was there. God was there and He saw it coming and is waiting for your reaction to see whether or not you've meant your prayers, whether you've really tried to understand the meaning behind the words of the Koran, those words that brush against your lips like a careless whisper.
God will protect you, but in the Koran he's stated that he CAN and he very well MAY test you in whichever way he finds it fit. It's beyond our control. It's God's will.
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You say homosexuality has consequences, yet in the next breath, you say the Koran promotes their independence....independence to what... commit acts which will lead to further consequences
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That's not what I meant, let me try again.
The Koran promotes INDEPENDENCE IN GENERAL. Not the independence of homosexuality. It promotes independence because only YOU can decide what's wrong or right upon reading the Koran. If you've read it and disagree, it's no one's loss but yours. If you've read it and you can follow it, more power to you, because God will be on your side during judgement day.
If you reject the Koran it's your personal decision and God won't punish you in this life. You still have a chance to make things right and that's the whole POINT, your faith in Him. The more you question things, the more you understand, the more you understand the closer to God you are. Get it? You think of Koran as a book that strips you away from all of your rights but in fact it gives you the right to do whatever you want as long as you think about the consequences that come with it. Aside from that, there are exceptions, because God is merciful and forgiving. In my example: If a homosexual Muslim went to the mosque everyday and didn't feel bad that he's attracted to men rather than women, and if a heterosexual Muslim beats his wife everyday and forbids her from doing anything she wants, the homosexual Muslim will definitely have more chance of getting into our idea of paradise than the abusing heterosexual Muslim. Good deeds is a must, no matter who does it from whichever religion.
Do you want to know the most valuable lesson I've learned from the Koran? Your personal relationship with God should not be confined to a certain religion or their customs. You should feel equally at home with God anywhere. In a church, in a mosque, or on the street. It's because that ISLAM taught me this lesson, this lesson that I haven't learned when studying other religions, is why I like being Muslim. It makes me want to open doors to other religions. This is how every Muslim should feel if they've been studying the Koran properly. Unfortunately the Koran is taught differently and inaccurately in many places, especially Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, and Pakistan. It's sad. But notice how many terrorists roam around these areas too.
I think this is pretty much all I have to say about this matter. It's hard spoon-feeding, there's a lot you have to dig through before you get where you are. I'm talking about years of extensive research and not a book or a brochure. It takes more than one book for you to be able to compare and contrast and come up with the differences yourself, this is the only reason why people who don't speak Arabic taught themselves a lot of what they need to know about Islam. Books, reading, a wide variety of authors, perhaps even a visit to a Muslim country.