Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
CaptainBubba CaptainBubba is offline
xXxASPERGERSxXx
CaptainBubba's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
CaptainBubba is probably a spambot
Old May 10th, 2004, 05:57 PM       
I dont really bother to post much anymore in this forum but jesus h christ on a stick. I opened and read this expecting only updates and the occassional exclamation of disgust or contempt. But lo and behold people are actually trying to defend this shit. Is it fun being so blindly loyal to a particular administration that you don't have to even hear what happens before you say you support it or will defend it? The fact ya'll exist scares the shit out of me frankly.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old May 10th, 2004, 05:58 PM       
Yes. I keep reminding myself that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Abcdxxxx is probably a spambot
Old May 11th, 2004, 03:05 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
Abcdzxregdtc - My mistake... murder and rape have all the earmarks of frat pranks. Sounds like typical initiation hazing.
There are some murders and rapes in this world that do involve the earmarks of a frat pranks, and they don't make the rape and murder aspect any less of a rape or murder, any less horrrible, any less inexcusable, and any less tragic. They don't even lighten the motivations, or make light of the crime. If you can't discern between the use of colored syntax, and someone who is actually belittle these acts, then you're pretty worthless. Go run around with panties on your head as an act of soidarity and wonder why everyone's gonna look at you like it's rush week.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old May 11th, 2004, 03:11 PM       
Abcdxxx: I can understand what you did not mean to do when you drew the hazing ritual comparison. But I cannot understand what you did mean to do. Why did you find such a comment worth making in the context of this discussion. Are you trying to say that since this seems to share the hazing ritual mentality, it somehow cannot reach up into the chain of command? I am a bit confused.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #80  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old May 11th, 2004, 03:58 PM       
I'd ask the same question, but I'm too worthless. because I can't discern his syntax. It has nothing to do with his poor communication skills or his insistence on using the same weak metaphor over and over all the while inisting his choice isn't belittling, it's... it's... uh, some other thing that the choice makes really clear, some point about how bad lots of stuff is and how it's not the point that one thing isn't so bad compared to something else, but you have to admit it isn't so bad.

Where's your metaphor line drawn at? If I said the Holocaust was a fraternity Prank gone wrong would that offend you? I think the image of a guy with panties on his head is overwhelming you. You seem really stuck on that. But that's the kind of worthless thing I think.

I wish we all lived in a world where your interpretation of syntax wasn't measure of ones worth. But maybe you didn't really mean that, Abcgdgatetxgbx. Maybe you're just a very angry guy who's having a harder time expressing complicated thoughts and feelings than he wants to admit.

Maybe I'm alone. Maybe everyone but me has some clear idea where you're going with the whole non belittling comparison of frat praanks, rape and murder. I've got no clue what your getting at. maybe someone else here can parse your syntax a little better.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old May 11th, 2004, 04:21 PM       
From what I've read most recently, it sounds like that command had a severe breakdown in morale and authority. So, in effect, the commanders were responsible for what happened there in a roundabout way. Apparently, there was a young enlisted soldier who was trying to bring the events to those in command but the command, realizing they were in a tough spot, hushed him and tried to keep a lid on the matter and "handle" things as best they could without those outside the chain of command finding out. Those outside the chain DID find out; however, and it made the situation look more like a cover-up than ever before because they did have knowledge of the situation and didn't report it WHEN IT HAPPENED. I'm not saying that the commanders openly directed the troops to specific action but maintaining their authority over the troops and keep up their morale IS their job and they failed. Reporting such incidents IS their job and they failed. That's about as far as I would reasonably go in indicting anyone in command unless I hear or read otherwise. I just tend to believe it the actions of a few twisted individuals who were over-stressed and left to do heinous things because poor command was exercised.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
Will chop you good.
sspadowsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Thrill World
sspadowsky is probably a spambot
Old May 11th, 2004, 04:25 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Burbank - My mistake... panties on the head has no illusions of frat prank whatsoever. Sounds like typical torture conduct.

Spadds, glad you can still spot arrogance while wallowing away in mediocrity over there.
Man, it's fun when people do my work for me.

Keep going, Abcdxprxixcxkx, continue to tell us why anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant and wrong.
__________________
"If honesty is the best policy, then, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. Second is not all that bad."
-George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Stabby Stabby is offline
TOP CHEF
Stabby's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: GODS AMERICA
Stabby is probably a spambot
Old May 11th, 2004, 04:47 PM       
Cryptome.org has the Red Cross report up.

Quote:
The main places of internment where mistreatment allegedly took place included battle group unit stations; the military intelligence sections of Camp Cropper and Abu Ghraib Correctional Facility; Al-Baghadadi, Heat Base and Habbania Camp in Ramadi governorate; Tikrit holding area (former Saddam Hussein Islamic School); a former train station in Al-Khaïm, near the Syrian border, turned into a military base; the Ministry of Defense and Presidential Palace in Baghdad, the former mukhabarat office in Basrah, as well as several Iraqi police stations in Baghdad.
Must be a bad season for apples.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Abcdxxxx is probably a spambot
Old May 12th, 2004, 12:16 AM       
http://www.stophazing.org/

Hazing Defined

“Hazing” refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group (or to maintain full status in a group) that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.* In years past, hazing practices were typically considered harmless pranks or comical antics associated with young men in college fraternities.* Today we know that hazing extends far beyond college fraternities and is experienced by boys/men and girls/women in school groups, university organizations, athletic teams, the military, and other social and professional organizations. Hazing is a complex social problem that is shaped by power dynamics operating in a group and/or organization and within a particular cultural context.*
Hazing activities are generally considered to be:* physically abusive, hazardous, and/or sexually violating.* The specific behaviors or activities within these categories vary widely among participants, groups and settings.* While alcohol use is common in many types of hazing, other examples of typical hazing practices include: personal servitude; sleep deprivation and restrictions on personal hygiene; yelling, swearing and insulting new members/rookies; being forced to wear embarrassing or humiliating attire in public; consumption of vile substances or smearing of such on one's skin; brandings; physical beatings; binge drinking and drinking games; sexual simulation and sexual assault.
Some common definitions and examples of hazing are below:
In the Alfred/NCAA survey of college athletes, hazing was defined as:
"any activity expected of someone joining a group that
humiliates, degrades, abuses or endangers, regardless of the person's willingness to participate. This does not include activities such as rookies carrying the balls, team parties with community games, or going out with your teammates, unless an atmosphere of humiliation, degradation, abuse or danger arises."
“Hazing is an activity that a high-status member orders other members to engage in or suggests that they engage in that in some way humbles a newcomer who lacks the power to resist, because he or she want to gain admission to a group. Hazing can be noncriminal, but it is nearly always against the rules of an institution, team, or Greek group. It can be criminal, which means that a state statute has been violated. This usually occurs when a pledging-related activity results in gross physical injury or death” (from Hank Nuwer's book Wrongs of Passage , 1999, p. xxv).
Hazing is defined by the FIPG (Fraternity Insurance Purchasing Group) as:
"Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks; quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house; wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy or the regulations and policies of the educational institution."
Will Keim, Ph.D., "The Power of Caring"
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old May 12th, 2004, 04:06 AM       
Density (n): An expression of mass per unit volume.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #86  
AChimp AChimp is offline
Resident Chimp
AChimp's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Jungles of Borneo
AChimp is probably a real personAChimp is probably a real person
Old May 12th, 2004, 06:09 PM       
So, what? Were these U.S. soldiers initiating the Iraqis into their secret club or something and we're not finding out about it?

I find the "this is along the same lines as hazing" argument to be weak at best.

When prison guards HERE start abusing prisoners, they are dealt with as soon as possible. No one starts making excuses. The fact that many of the Iraqi prisoners are being held without being charged or convicted of anything makes this even worse, IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old May 12th, 2004, 06:45 PM       
Chimp beat me to the point. Hazing, as ugly as it can be, is geared toward making someone a member of a group, embracing them. It's twsited, but that's the goal.

The goal here was revenge, humilation, sadism for it's own sake, degredation and 'softening' for interrogation.

A person who's hazed in a frat or the army is part of the process. It's concensual. There's also the expectation of a frat pledge that they won't die or be maimed, something the prisoners didn't enjoy. People joining skull and bones make a choice to be spanked and possibly sodomized so that later they can control the world.

I think hazing is repulsive and sick, and I can't imagine wanting any part of an organization that would use it to forge bonds of belonging. Hazing sometimes goes wrong, but I don't think the intent of hazing is ever to kill or maim, and when rape bcomes a part of it, I think we're outside the realm of hazing and in the realm of crime. A frat pledge is supposed to have the chance to quit.

I get that you think it's all part of a continuum. Hazing bad, torture even badder, just further down the same slippery slope. I disagree strongly. I dislike Liver, it makes me puke. Arsenic on the other hand is not food. I think your equation between what went on in Iraq and Hazing, no matter how brutal and out of control, is seriously offensive. I think you're hugely wrong. I think it belittles torture. I think it is a dangerous equation, even if what you mean is that hazing is a really bad thing. I think a person who insists on making that equation is fundamentally missing the point . Unless you think the guy who got beheaded got to wear a terrorist letter jacket afterward and behead a few plebes himself the next year.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 01:25 AM       
But that's exactly what happened, Max. Didn't you see the pictures of him in his spiffy new jacket and his head sewn back on, gleefully maiming peasants with a scimitar?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Abcdxxxx is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 02:15 AM       
It wasn't an argument, it was an observation.

Burbank, If you served arsenic and liver on the same plate, and both were harmful to you, wouldn't it be fair to recognize both with some importance, even though they might not be equally as harmful.

I was just waiting for Burbank to try and relate hazing to the Berg tragedy...I mean, after all, he ran out of excuses to evoke the Holocaust. There was nothing to suggest the imagery of hazing in that situation... as opposed to our soldiers who went about their torture and murder as if they were just goofing off in the snuff remake of Porkey's. The crimes were of drastic severity, yet they added a whole pyschotic "dude, look what I'm making them do, this is fucked up, here take a picture" approach that's important to recognize because it's unique. You're pretty immature if you believe one belittles a tragic crime by aknowledging the potential mindset of it's perpatrator.

Since you brought up the Holocaust... People refer to the Nazi's "using Jews, and Gypsys as target practice". Are they minimizing the deaths when they say this? Are they claiming Jews and a Gypsys are merely targets and not people? Or are they just intelligent enough to illustrate a concept through descriptive words, as an observation ??

Of course, you're not this stupid, but I'm happy to play along if it means you show some more compassion for the victims rather then take the opportunity to gloat over the criminal role our administration played in this.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
mesobe mesobe is offline
Senior Member
mesobe's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: your mom
mesobe is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 10:50 AM       
Its very amazing to me that the US government are even trying to make up reasons for these crimes.
__________________
The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they will be when you kill them.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 01:10 PM       
Way to catch the analogy, Zyxwvut.

Liver tastes bad, but is not harmful at all. Arsenic is harmful.

THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE.

I won't even bother pointing out again what the analogy refers to. You're already lost way out there in the woods.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
mesobe mesobe is offline
Senior Member
mesobe's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: your mom
mesobe is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 01:58 PM       
arsenic and liver? what the FUCK are you talking about?
__________________
The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they will be when you kill them.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old May 13th, 2004, 02:44 PM       
'It wasn't an argument it was an observation'.

Oh. okay. Well, I guess it wasn't ugly and wrong then.

s for 'using Jews as target practice', I think your'e missing why that metphor is functional. It means they had no regard for Jews as living human beings. How do you see your 'hazing' metaphor as working exactly.

Uhm... ell, see, the MP's saw the prisoners as plebes and... no that doesn't make much sense. Uhr, the MPs wanted to form a bond with... no, no... Uhmm the MPs were stupid and cruel like Frat boys! That's it! That's a good enough observation for a metaphor.

You know what Avxcgfeytjxue? Speaking with you is a really distasteful experience. It's not even worth it to make fun of you. I think you are on the same plate as arsenic and liver.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Abcdxxxx is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 05:28 PM       
An observation isnt a judgement. Grow up. I already expressed my judgement, and horror of these events elsewhere in these posts, but you're too preoccupied with disagreeing with someone.

I hope you get your funny back, because it does well to hide what an idiot you truly are. The funniest thing here is your attempt to take some moral high ground. You don't care about Iraqi's, but I'm glad I could provoke some sentiment. Toodles.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
mesobe mesobe is offline
Senior Member
mesobe's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: your mom
mesobe is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 10:33 PM       
youre all fucking stupid
__________________
The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they will be when you kill them.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
AChimp AChimp is offline
Resident Chimp
AChimp's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Jungles of Borneo
AChimp is probably a real personAChimp is probably a real person
Old May 13th, 2004, 11:15 PM       
WTF? Now Porno Alphabet is recanting? As I look through this thread, all I see is "hazing this" and "hazing that" spewing forth from him, and only now we find out that he really thinks the torture was "pretty bad."

Why don't you just come out and admit that you used a really shitty analogy in the first place?
Reply With Quote
  #97  
ScruU2wice ScruU2wice is offline
Mocker
ScruU2wice's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: thursday
ScruU2wice is probably a spambot
Old May 13th, 2004, 11:29 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesobe
youre all fucking stupid
nice avatar...
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Abcdxxxx is probably a spambot
Old May 14th, 2004, 01:09 AM       
Chimp, I think It would be a lot easier for you to admit you didn't understand it. Done.

Mesobe, you're lucky the internet detours me from spitting in your face.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old May 14th, 2004, 07:34 AM       
IF THIS THREAD DOESN'T SETTLE DOWN I'M GOING TO START SODOMIZING PEOPLE WITH CHEMICAL LIGHTS AND PERHAPS A BROOMSTICK!
Reply With Quote
  #100  
mesobe mesobe is offline
Senior Member
mesobe's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: your mom
mesobe is probably a spambot
Old May 14th, 2004, 09:11 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Mesobe, you're lucky the internet detours me from spitting in your face.
your tough.
__________________
The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they will be when you kill them.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.