Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 8th, 2005, 10:30 AM        Military recruitment on college campuses
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com...2_8_05_SC.html

December 8, 2005

When Liberals Oppose Strong Government
By Steve Chapman

Conservatives have not been models of consistency lately. President Bush, after all, has vastly enlarged the federal budget, expanded Washington's role in local school affairs, and signed a campaign finance bill, even while retaining the allegiance of people who abhor all these things. But this week liberals had a turn at exhibiting their, um, confusion.

For years they have favored using federal power to force universities to do certain things that some schools would rather not do. An institution that accepts federal funds, for example, may not discriminate on the basis of race. Title IX, beloved by feminists, compels colleges getting such aid to offer equal opportunity for female students in sports and other activities -- with the feds defining what constitutes "equal opportunity."

Suppose a school disagrees with these mandates? It will get no sympathy from liberal groups, which invariably reply: Cry me a river. When you accept public subsidies, they announce, you must defer to the public's sense of fairness and equity. If you want to do things your own way, do them with your own money.

But in a case heard by the Supreme Court on Tuesday, it appears that the liberal affection for assertive government has a limit. A law known as the Solomon Amendment requires universities getting federal funds to grant access to recruiters for the military on the same terms as recruiters for any other employer.

Many law schools object, because of the military's exclusion of gays under its "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and they want the court to excuse them from this obligation. All of a sudden, they are smitten with the idea that private institutions should be allowed to run their campuses as they see fit, rather than be ordered around by Washington.

Those who want to overturn the law say it violates the First Amendment by forcing them to promote a message they don't accept -- that discrimination against gays is acceptable. But they didn't object when Bob Jones University was punished by the federal government for racial discrimination. To keep its tax-exempt status, it would have had to stop discriminating, even though that would have meant promoting a message starkly at odds with its religious teachings.

Liberals insist that combating racial and sexual discrimination is such a "compelling interest" that the government has more leeway when they are at stake. But surely there is no government interest more compelling than defense of the nation from attack, which the Solomon Amendment serves.

When you take federal money, you can expect it to come with strings attached. All the Solomon Amendment requires universities to do is not penalize military recruiters by barring them from campus or withholding the assistance given to other employers. The schools remain free to express their rejection of "don't ask, don't tell" as often as they want, in any way they choose.

The law schools say that far from discriminating against the armed forces, they treat them the same as everyone else: They exclude any employer that rejects applicants on the basis of sexual orientation. But other employers have a choice, which the military does not. Its policy, after all, was established by federal law.

If universities have a beef, it's with Congress and the president, not with the military. But they seem to have no objection to associating, at least in a financial way, with the same people who mandated this discrimination. They merely want to be free to reject the conditions attached to the government funds -- an option not granted to schools that prefer to ignore federal commands on race and sex.

Some liberals are aware that this argument could lead the court down a scary path. Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, for one, is not confident that, if the universities win the case, "the Supreme Court would write an opinion with the delicacy required to strike down the Solomon Amendment in a way that does not endanger" enforcement of civil rights laws.

Schools like Bob Jones University, he fears, "might well be able to generate a 1st Amendment argument" for rejecting federal dictates. In that case, colleges would have more freedom to set their own policies on women and minorities.

It might be a good thing if the federal government were not so aggressive in using its funding power to coerce universities to follow policies they may not like. But it's a surprise to hear liberals admitting that.

Copyright 2005 Creators Syndicate
Reply With Quote
  #2  
derrida derrida is offline
Member
derrida's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
derrida is probably a spambot
Old Dec 8th, 2005, 12:33 PM       
If you're in the military you can still go to gay bars and pick up dudes, right? Just so long as no one sees you commiting sodomy or proclaiming your homosexuality?

Or is it that commanding officers spring fag traps on hapless homo recruits: "Who here wants to suck my dick?!"?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 8th, 2005, 01:05 PM       
Reply With Quote
  #4  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Dec 8th, 2005, 06:36 PM       
I've always been under the impression that the military tends to discourage any sexual activity be it hetero or homo.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
derrida derrida is offline
Member
derrida's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
derrida is probably a spambot
Old Dec 8th, 2005, 09:22 PM       
Can I make it up to you Kevin? Let's see here:

On the one hand, says the government, if you dick with us just because we don't let homos into the military, what's to prevent you from dicking with us over NON-pointless things like the war in Iraq?

On the other hand, say the universities, if you dick with us over military recruitment on funding, what's it going to be next? Intelligent design? Tenure for conservative professors?

So, fuck government funding. Stop ranking universities on the basis of their NSF grants. Or if that's too drastic, start a policy of only accepting money with no unrelated strings attached. They're already cutting student loan assistance. How long do you think they will wait before eyeing university funding in general on the basis of whatever dirty liberal program can be found? Higher education is ALREADY blasted hourly as an ivory tower cut off from the real, GOP-voting world. It's ALREADY a foregone conclusion that all universities are filled with godless, communist, sinful liberals who like evolution and functional literacy. You think they'll give up that rainmaker if you cave on anything and/or everything? The story isn't about you, it's about keeping the ignorant worked up and witless. So go nuts. Jump the gun. Call their bluff. Return Uncle Sam's checks and start researching the fuck out of every stem cell line you can grab. Let them scream. They already are. Think of the private money you'll get once it becomes clear that the shills who stay bent over like Stanford and Pepperdine have turned into special-ed programs teaching ABC's to Republican pundits in training while you have real research. If it's a problem for money, you can always cancel English and Gender Studies. They're used to funding cuts anyway.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 9th, 2005, 12:04 AM       
I actually referenced Derrida just now in an LJ post.

God, I hate post-modernism.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Pub Lover Pub Lover is offline
Näyttelijäbotti!
Pub Lover's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mogadishu, Texas
Pub Lover is probably pretty okPub Lover is probably pretty okPub Lover is probably pretty okPub Lover is probably pretty okPub Lover is probably pretty ok
Old Dec 9th, 2005, 12:14 AM       

Pretty Nebula.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Boogie
No YouTube embeds in your sigs, poindexter.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 9th, 2005, 12:18 AM       
Thank you, Pub, for filling the creepy-as-hell niche here on I-Mockery and in my life in general. The world wouldn't be the same without you.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #9  
GAsux GAsux is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Las Vegas
GAsux is probably a spambot
Old Dec 9th, 2005, 03:51 PM       
I actually have some firsthand experience with this becuase it's the nature of my business.

I completely understand universitiy issues with the militarys policy. Every school has extensively written and detailed non-discrimination policies so it is a bit hypocritical to accept the don't ask - don't tell gig. Legitimate beef. But as was mentioned, I believe that beef is with Congress, not the branches.

As for "recruiting" on college campus, I've not seen a single enlisted recruiter on any of the dozen or so college campuses I've worked in or around. It's just not their market. Most DO however support ROTC programs, but I've never seen an ROTC proram "recruit". They certainly advertise, set up booths at events, etc but they don't violate personal rights.

Unlike enlisted recruitres at high schools, ROTC programs don't solicit information, call people at home, drive to yoru house, or any of that nonsense. They advertise at events. If you sign up, they send you information. Im willing to bet there is virtually no one that was contacted at home or in a private capacity by an ROTC "recruiter".

I can understand how the Solomon Amendment can cause grief with high school students. Being almost "stalked" at your home is a big issue and I'd agree that it's invasive. But as far as the college campus environment goes, the process is totally different so it's apples and oranges.

Sorry that whole mess is a lot less coherent now that I read it......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
derrida derrida is offline
Member
derrida's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
derrida is probably a spambot
Old Dec 10th, 2005, 08:32 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethomas
God, I hate post-modernism.
I'm kind of ambivalent towards it. Goods and bads, you know?

Ever read Zizek?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 10th, 2005, 08:52 PM       
Nope.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.