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  #51  
MattJack MattJack is offline
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Old Mar 8th, 2007, 11:55 PM       
It's fine, he can be cool all he wants. He posts WAY more than me in this forum, so Imma fag up all of his threads as well . Just let the libertarian, wait, he changed flavors already, I mean the greenindirepublicrat talk to himself.
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  #52  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 12:26 AM       
wanting a benevolent god is also self-interested for a couple of reasons:
"Oh man gods good and he loves us specifically so hes gonna hook us up with a cool life yo"
"If we pray to god he will bless us"
"god has a plan for the universe"
"Our life has meaning"

and also because without a benevolent god is undermines our whole conception of striving to be good. When we call something god we are basically saying, "These are our ideals". Without god, to some people, there are no ideals.

stuff like that. Without a god most of those become meaningless, as far as they are based on god.
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  #53  
Gabby GaGa Gabby GaGa is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 02:34 AM       
Matt:
Quote:
Why would God need to even create some "equalibrium?" He's God, he doesn't need an excuse to why he has created good. He doesn't have to answer to anyone does he? Why a counterpart? We do not need to have an counterpart of everything to know two sides of something. Further, many things do not have any counterparts. What is the
counterpart of chalk? We know perfectly what chalk is without knowing what its counterpart is.
Pepto Bismal.
Just kidding.
The only reason you know what chalk is
is because you've been told.
(thats not a zing. Let me explain)
We only know what god is, or what his standards are,
because we've been told.

So yes, chalk (or god) could exist,
but only because we have a notion of him.
An idea or notion is created out of collective experiances,
one of which is comparison. (good and evil)

this is all reptitive on my part, of course.
Nietzche already proved that God and human morality are dependent on each other.

Quote:
I MEAN YOUR ENTIRE DICSUCSION HERE WAS COMPLETELY COVERED IN AN E-MAIL I RECEIVED FROM MY STEP-MOM JESUS CHRIST
You step mom is jesus christ. holy shit.
If she covered everything,
why don't you ENLIGHTEN us. Open our poor stupid minds.

Quote:
Once again, man falls victim to evil through greed and intolerance.
Please refer to Adamsite.


Quote:
when you're a child you try to fly though, and then you learn you can't. That's not so
much a matter of choosing as it is biology, though, but i guess that's your point.
Not exactly. Well, in a way.
That child is expressing either pure stupidity, or a misconception.
Stupid people I can feel sorry for, Like Ed Gein. They're like drug addicts,
and just need understanding, and hopefully treatment, as Kahl pointed out.
My second point was misconception. Misconception can fall into both the catagories of
enviroment and mental disease.
Enviroment is a template that pre-designates a persons so-called "free will"
that enviroment will permanently engrave a persons mind to function in a certain way.
Mental disease is the next catagory. This one is more difficult, because it's sometimes
impossible to draw the line between misconception and and mental disease. Yes, this is more a
question of biology.
So, is the deviant person evil because of misconception, which is really a skewed vision
of a logical or moral idea, or is he evil because of a biological (chemical or nurological)
flaw?
If bilogical, then that does indeed mean that some people are predestined to commiting evil acts.
If the subject has a misconcieved idea, then that means a skewed view was introduced somewhere
(family, community, or school), in which case fault lies with the society.
For all others, those who's upbringing was normal, and the person never experianced any trauma,
those people are plain evil. They probably commit their acts out of boredom,
because they always had a "straight-line" life. No ups or downs.
Oh yeah, to answer your question,
about why god allows suffering and illness, etc.
Because we need to go through the suffering in order to learn.
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  #54  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 02:55 AM       
"So yes, chalk (or god) could exist,
but only because we have a notion of him.
An idea or notion is created out of collective experiances,
one of which is comparison. (good and evil)"

I see what you're saying basically what i said but the entire point of god is that he exists before our experiences.

what is evil about killing out of boredom? I'm just curious because I've been asking what evil was because you know I'm just wondering...

Nietzsche I don't think actually PROVED anything about god.
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 03:03 AM       
i was going to start talking about existentialism and how "Choice" and "Freedom" aren't a solice but now i feel dirty and ashamed ;(
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 03:19 AM       
what is evil about killing out of boredom? I'm just curious because I've been asking what evil was because you know I'm just wondering...
Quite honestly, nothing.
Dont jump to conclusions just yet.
Evil is simply a word to describe any deviouse act that doesn't fit in with societies standards.

Evil, in my opinion, seems to be a term used to describe any act that goes against biology.
Homosexuality, murder, and even disfigurments.
(remember in the middle ages, when a simple bilogical disfiguremnt was often concidered
to be a work of the devil?)

So this unnatural act, described as evil, seems to be an observed biological deviance.
However, there are varying degrees of evil.

There's a pshycologist, his name escapes me at the moment,
who developed a scale of evil. There are 22 levels, each incremental number more evil then
the last.
Level 1 murders are "the least evil":
(those that are mentally diseased, and don't know any better)
level 22 is reserved for the coldest murderers. These are the people who go against their biology
entierly.
Homicide is a perversion of biology.
Biology glitch = social notion of evil.
Im too tired to read through this.
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 10:20 AM       
Murder, homosexuality and disfigurement are actually quite in line with "biology." Animals of all kinds regularly murder eachother, even members of their own species, and a goodly number of "higher" animals have been seen to engage in vigorous homosexual activity. I would direct you to the bonobo.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 01:58 PM       
thanks emu that was going to be my response...

so if disfigurements are evil, does that mean whatever caused the disfigurement is evil? Bad genes? A rock they fell on? Bad diet? Some other unconscious-able thing? Any act that goes against biology would make... a lot of things evil.

honestly so far there hasn't been a good answer to that question.

anyway... I'm not going to repeat myself to gagagofuck since we've already gone over Nietzsche pretty much in entirety.
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 02:09 PM       
do you guys think it's immoral when people place their ability to be moral entirely in the hands of god? Such as people who say morality can't exist without god, or can't exist outside the church?
I kind of do.
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 03:04 PM       
Yes, because they're essentially saying that in the absence of God they would be immoral assholes who would rape and pillage on a whim. You know who to avoid depending on their answer to the question "Would you be moral without god?"

By the way GabbyGaGa or whatever by your reasoning if going against biology is evil then it's morally justifiable to kill someone who isn't of your extended family/tribe.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 04:19 PM       
yea but somebody who says they are moral because of god would also say morality exists because of god ;o

I don't even want to talk philosophy with gabbygaga around she might be using it for her book or something.
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 05:43 PM       
Yeah but then you get into the debate about whether God created morality (and morality is therefore arbitrary) or whether god obeys a pre-existing morality and therefore god is not omnipotent and something existed before god and where did that come from and where are my keys
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Gabby GaGa Gabby GaGa is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2007, 11:31 PM       
kahl
"so if disfigurements are evil, does that mean whatever caused the disfigurement is evil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahl
Bad genes? A rock they fell on? Bad diet? Some other unconscious-able thing? Any act that
goes against biology would make... a lot of things evil."
where did I state that disfiguments are evil? I cited a period in history that believed
disfigurments were evil .
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaga
Evil, in my opinion, seems to be a term used to describe any act that goes against biology.
Homosexuality, murder, and even disfigurments.
(remember in the middle ages, when a simple bilogical disfiguremnt was often concidered
to be a work of the devil?)
So this unnatural act, described as evil, seems to be an observed biological deviance. "
Read more carefully before you respond
so that you don't make an ass of yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emu
By the way GabbyGaGa or whatever by your reasoning if going against biology is evil then it's
morally justifiable to kill someone who isn't of your extended family/tribe.
All humans are part of the same species.
Killing of your own species is a form of suicide. Suicide is a contradiction of biology
because biology's sole perpose is to continue life.


God himself is a description of morality.
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