Minutemen border patrol

[El Blanco]

You have politicians playing to certain crowds. And Ridge can stop calling them vigilantes.

Its an attempt to use a buzzword to put a negative light on the MM.

[AngPur]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vigilante

[ziggytrix]

vigilante has connotations tho. most people think of shit like the Punisher or Batman...

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by AngPur

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vigilante

Ya, that smug smiley thing, I hate when people do that. Because, usually the people using that are dead wrong and have no fucking clue.

The MM have not taken the law into their own hands. They are not running out and roping or gunning down people jumping the border.

They are watching the borders nd then alerting law enforcement officials. See the difference? Thats working in conjunction with the law, not taking it into your own hands.

[AngPur]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

They are watching the borders nd then alerting law enforcement officials. See the difference? Thats working in conjunction with the law, not taking it into your own hands.

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

2. A member of a vigilance committee.

No need for profanities. I'm here to help you understand how to use the dictionary.

[Carnivore]

Well thank God that you are HEAR to help.

[AngPur]

Is that better than "bereacrats"?

[El Blanco]

They are not a vigilance commitee.

Why don't you try understanding the English language before yo uattempt to give lessons on the dictionary to people smarter than you?

[AngPur]

Why do you keep trying to use 'I'm smarter than you' attacks on the internet? It's pretty pointless Mr. uattempt.

[ziggytrix]

How can you say these people weren't taking law enforcement into their own hands? They went out armed to look for criminal activity. The only thing that makes me hesistate to use the word vigilante is it's connotations - there's certainly nothing inappropriate in it's use in the literal watchman. Hell, they've even named their little group after a famous militia. But I'll agree a better word to descirbe them is activists or protesters since their operation was for one month only.

Since you are so into these semantic debates, let's argue about your misuse of the word buzzword next.

[Carnivore]

"The percentage of noncitizens in Federal prisons has increased to more than a quarter of the Federal prison population. Most are illegal aliens, half of them convicted of drug dealing and drug trafficking. Either because of mismanagement or a lack of desire, our immigration laws are not being enforced as they should be."

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees...ju59872_0f.htm

[El Blanco]

So, if I see someone getting mugged and call for a cop, I'm a vigilante?

[ziggytrix]

if you went out looking for muggers with your cellphone in hand and 911 already keyed in, and a gun on your hip just in case you were attacked, then yes.

[kellychaos]

If ya could 'ply for a license for somethin' like dis, how many d'ya reckon they'd 'low you bag in a year? I mean, wut's a reasonable limit?

[ziggytrix]

5.

[kellychaos]

It will please you to notice that I have refrained from any dark meat versus white meat jokes.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

if you went out looking for muggers with your cellphone in hand and 911 already keyed in, and a gun on your hip just in case you were attacked, then yes.

Thats not what they are doing. They aren't hunting them down. They are looking over spots where they tend to go and calling the authorities. They are, in fact, discouraged from bringing weapons and are told to leave at the first sign of trouble.

[ziggytrix]

ok if you went out to a rough spot in south Dallas where muggings occured daily with your cellphone in hand and 911 already keyed in, and a gun on your hip just in case you were attacked, then yes.

- just to take the "hunting down" part out of the equation.

you really can't say that they weren't trying to take an active part in law enforcement, even if they weren't trying to take down suspects themselves.

mind you, i don't personally have a problem with what they were doing, especially since as a non-violent protest it was hugely succesful.

i still think the ultimate solution is not putting one of these groups at every border hot spot, but rather going after the businesses that hire illegals, making legal ways for immigrant labor to be acquired for certain jobs, and stopping the incentive for non-violent aliens to break border laws. as for the drug smugglers, we could put a big dent in their profits if we made it legal for potheads to grow their own plants, but i doubt many folks would go for that one.

[El Blanco]

i still think the ultimate solution is not putting one of these groups at every border hot spot, but rather going after the businesses that hire illegals, making legal ways for immigrant labor to be acquired for certain jobs, and stopping the incentive for non-violent aliens to break border laws.

OK, I can't say I disagree with you too much there.

I'd also add that we should help Mexico get out of such a situation where so many people feel they have to take such a dangerous journey.

[Ant10708]

The border will be properly secured once some crazy blows himself and a couple dozen civilians up in the name of Allah and we find out he crossed over one of our borders illegally.

[GAsux]

I'm not picking sides in this snazzy little argument you have going here mind you. I personally don't give to shits if some jackass wants to sit in the middle of the desert in a lawn chair with some binoculars looking for immigrants.

But I believe there are some things that are important to point out. For example, I don't believe the folks involved in either Trade Center bombing made their way into this country via a dusty, cactus strewn trail in the Arizona desert. So to this point, the "terrorists are sneaking across the border" argument is worthless. The fact is, to this point, the "terrorists" haven't had to go that route.

Therefore, without statistical evidence or neato websites to back up my "opinion", I believe the bulk of the people we're talking about here are primarily third world country immigrants coming to this country for work or your car stereo.

I know I'm rambling here but now that I think about it, the onlyl heavily documented account of terrorists attempting to enter the US via a border crossing to come blow shit up was via our neighbors to the north.

Personally, I believe that the argument about "securing our borders" as it pertains to foot traffic in the middle of the desert is a moot point not worth discussing. Maybe some horrible terrorist attack perpetrated by nomadic desert runners will prove me wrong, but I'm willing to take my chances.

[FS]

ROAR

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

They are watching the borders nd then alerting law enforcement officials. See the difference? Thats working in conjunction with the law, not taking it into your own hands.

Yo, if I can work at night, flash a flash light in a Mexican's face, and yell "citizen's arrest!!!", I'll head down there with ya. :smugsmileyface

[El Blanco]

For example, I don't believe the folks involved in either Trade Center bombing made their way into this country via a dusty, cactus strewn trail in the Arizona desert. So to this point, the "terrorists are sneaking across the border" argument is worthless. The fact is, to this point, the "terrorists" haven't had to go that route.

So, we should wait until they are using it instead of taking a preventative measure? Thats like saying you don't need a smoke alarm because you haven't had a fire yet.

Since there are thousands of illegaql immigrants flowing through there and it is already a pipeline for narcotics and weapons, it really isn't a big jump for terrorists to make should our ports and harbors actually become secured.

[GAsux]

Perhaps we should clarify. At no point did I say, hint, or intimate that a terrorist couldn't possibly make it across our borders. Nor did I imply that since it hasn't happened, we should turn a blind eye to immigration.

What I said clearly is that to this point, no terrorist act in the U.S. has stemmed from a bad guy sneaking across the desert Southwest. The simple fact is, they don't have to. So any discussion of the fact that terrorists are flooding across are borders is hypothetical at this point. If you have evidence to the contrary, Id be happy to consider it.

So the heart of the matter is, if you're discussing illegal immigration, particularly on the US/Mexican border, the problem of terrorism in my opinion is hardly the top concern. Although not impossible, it hasn't happened yet and there's little indication that it's even a threat at this point. When terrorists sneak across the border and kill lots of people, you can tell me what a jackass I am for being wrong.

It would be great if you didn't expand my post into arguments I never actually made in the first place.