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  #26  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old May 4th, 2005, 10:26 PM       
Common sense is crap. I hate when people use that as an argument. It used to be common sense that the world is flat.

Have you seen these schools? Is there an article somewhere about them, or do you just assume they exist because it makes sense to you? I've seen schools here in wich most of the students and teachers spoke Spanish, or whatever happened to be the first language of the neighborhood, the the students still had to learn English.

So, just take a minute before you just start pulling facts out of your ass.


And it still doesn't answer my question as to are the minutemen going around looking for illegals. Because, if they were, I think this would be a much bigger story.
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:40 PM       
the minutemen gather in hotspots for illegal border crossing and, when spotting illegal immigrants, they call INS. there's no dramatic gunfights and the whole thing is monitored by the ACLU. in fact, there was a whole issue a lil while back that the ACLU observers were smoking smuggled mexican weed while going about their duties.
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:43 PM       
The Minutemen have already declined offers from racist groups to join. And they aren't vigilantes who every said that. They aren't doing anything illegal. And how are they getting in the border patrol's way? They stand and survey the area with fucking binoculars and call in the BP when they spot illegals crossing.

Also I think most people are for allowing illegals already here to stay and become documented but that doesn't mean we should continue to allow millions to cross over illegally. Why is it that people who want a secure border with legal immigration accused of being racists? I just thought it was 'common sense' to be agaisnt having a ton of undocumnted people just enter and live in the country.
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:45 PM       
I just said that :<
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:47 PM       
Why should we allow illegals to stay here if they're established? They're felons!
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:47 PM       
I know but the people on the other side of the arguement got to repeat their 'Only racists want to secure the border.' points so I thought I'd reinforce your stance.
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Old May 4th, 2005, 11:49 PM       
We allow them to stay here because it is very difficult to gather up people who are already living in the country undocumented. You might as well allow them to become legal so they can start to pay taxes and become citizens. And for all the people who are for the millions crossing the border don't you think its unfair to the people doing it legally and having to wait years. My dad owns a car shop and most of his workers from the Middle East all went through the process or are going through it and now they are legitmate citizens and can legally bring their family over once they become legal. I'm not sure if Pakistan has a worse economy than Mexico but I mean he made sacrfices so he could bring his family here legally.

Oh and about the driver's license proving you are legal. Can't you get a driver's license in some states even if you're not a citizen? They just don't ask you any questions so they have no idea if you are illegal or legal.
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  #33  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 12:23 AM       
Is a duel policy of amnesty/naturalization of all current working illegals, matched with a stricter border policy out of the question?

I for one think what the minutemen are doing is great. It's great to see Americans fucking care about something important. I also understand the impulse to cross the border, and the softy liberal in me wishes we could take them all.

But we can't, and it's a threat to our security. It's time to tighten our belts a bit, IMO. That means you too, Canada!
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  #34  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 12:27 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
Common sense is crap.
From this point forward, I will believe everything you say without question.

Quote:
Have you seen these schools? Is there an article somewhere about them, or do you just assume they exist because it makes sense to you? I've seen schools here in wich most of the students and teachers spoke Spanish, or whatever happened to be the first language of the neighborhood, the the students still had to learn English.
You know, believe it or not, it's a human instinct to educate your young. Them injuns do it on their reservations, too. I haven't personally attended these schools. I can't cite where I've heard or read about it, either, but I can guarantee that it happened and didn't 'look into it' because it wasn't an unbelievable scenario. You know, I can also assure you that I have bought a doughnut in the past, but I can't seem to find the documentation anymore. I hope you'll take my word for it.

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And it still doesn't answer my question as to are the minutemen going around looking for illegals. Because, if they were, I think this would be a much bigger story.
It probably didn't answer your question because I didn't talk about that.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 12:29 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant10708
The Minutemen have already declined offers from racist groups to join.
Well, to my understanding, this isn't entirely true. Supposedly they had the head of some racist group flying a plane for them, doing air cover. They argue that he isn't a member of the group, but he's a "friend" or something to the group. I think the fact that he's offering a free plane also helps.
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  #36  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 12:47 AM       
i live in arizona, and i am totaly for this. lots of people cross the border so they can get better jobs, and thats cool...

but some cross becasue they know if they commit any crime other than rape and or murder, there just gonna get sent back to mexico so they can cross and do i again....

and shit has been going down around here with smugglers, who bring people accross, then hold there family hostage untill they can pay the "fee". like, every week on the news here, you hear about some drop house getting busted, and 50 people are found in a 3 bedroom house. there was also a freeway shooting of rival smugglers that killed all the people in one van. i think there was like 10 people in it or something. ill try to find the link....


anyway, the minuteman thing has stoped a lot of people crossing here in az, but i guess there going to new mexico now or something...
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Old May 5th, 2005, 01:05 AM       
links

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ouse29-ON.html

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...rder04-ON.html

http://www.phoenix360.com/news/moren....asp?did=16046

http://www.phoenix360.com/news/moren....asp?did=10743

damn, i cant find the freeway shooting link...
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  #38  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 02:37 AM       
You're just a racist!
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  #39  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 03:00 AM       
i dont really know enough about it to say yay or nay.

the irrational liberal that reads too much sci-fi says that being paranoid about illegals is missing out on how ludicrous the concept of a national border is on this earth.

the part thats not as clever as it thinks it is says that illegals merely employ a form of capitalism (the same rationale scalpers use, incidentally) in competing for jobs by accepting low wages and us americans cant HANDLE that.

but then, realistically, theyre coming to america, and if it would be really so much of a struggle, they could realize that that they've alreay broken a law of the land by breaking in here, and shouldnt be surprised that they dont get drivers licenses, much less get deported.

though it is a bummer that being illegals prevents them from seeking proper health care and other social services, it shouldnt be expected that this country gives breaks to people who dont make the effort to be LEGAL in the US.

on the other hand though, they do provide a level of class (and poverty) that allows them to do the jobs most of us dont or wont, and in an increasing population, that should be valued more.

but now i'm just being an asshole.

so yeah, minutemen, theyre being watched like hawks, so off with them if violences are commited, but if it's just a bunch of jobless flag-wavers radioing to patrol, then whatever.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 05:14 AM       
I can never put much faith in this type of citizens for justice schtuff. Whatever good intentions there are, I think for most of them it eventually boils down to a feeling of power. Mighty me has the right to grab foreign you by the collar. Not saying, of course, that cops never get off on their position of power, but at least if you've made the choice to become a cop and trained for it, there's a lot less chance of it happening.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 07:44 AM       
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I can also assure you that I have bought a doughnut in the past, but I can't seem to find the documentation anymore. I hope you'll take my word for it.
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  #42  
Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 07:48 AM       
neva forget
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  #43  
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Old May 5th, 2005, 10:03 AM       
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If ordinary Americans want to have a hand in solving this problem, then they should leave the lawn chairs in the garage and pressure their representatives in Congress to crack down on employers and shut down the job magnet that draws illegal immigrants here in the first place. They should protest outside the headquarters of companies that have a record of hiring illegal immigrants and boycott their products and services. And they should pressure city councils to pass ordinances that levy stiff fines on the casual user, those motorists who pull over to the curb to hire day laborers waiting on street corners.

Granted, none of this is as sexy as storming up and down the border in fatigues and carrying night scopes and walkie-talkies. But it's bound to pay bigger returns.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DGP7CJHG81.DTL
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  #44  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 01:08 PM       
But those are already employed. Immigration is a huge issue in California. This is a new tactic they are using to get more attention and apply more pressure.

Do you guys putting them down also laugh at neighborhood watch groups?
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Rez Rez is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 01:19 PM       
pretty much, since it's old ladies nosing in eveybody's affairs like they're british or something.

*look out your window in a way thats inconspicuous but tells everyboy you're an idiot looking for something ILLEGAL. find something that just frightens you and CALL THE POLICE*

*look out your window in a way thats inconspicuous but tells everyboy you're an idiot looking for something ILLEGAL. find something that just frightens you and CALL THE POLICE*

*look out your window in a way thats inconspicuous but tells everyboy you're an idiot looking for something ILLEGAL. find something that just frightens you and CALL THE POLICE*

again... and AGAIN.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 02:16 PM       
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There’s no denying that some kind of deterrent is taking place along the Arizona-Mexico border. In April 2004, according to Zortman, the Border Patrol made a total of 27,594 apprehensions in the 87-mile long Naco-Douglas border area, a portion of which was patrolled by the Minutemen. This April, apprehensions in that same area dropped to 11,482, including the 1,327 that were a result of citizen phone calls.

The reduction in apprehensions is “definitely not [attributed] to any citizens on the border,” Zortman said. Instead, she said that Border Patrol programs both this year and last intended to permanently beef up patrol efforts, resulted in fewer attempts to illegally cross the border. In addition, Zortman said a strong presence “on the south side” from Mexican military and law enforcement is helping a great deal.

Border Patrol officials dismiss any notion that the Minuteman presence in April was anything other an occasional nuisance, including setting off more than 200 false alerts from motion sensors as they tread too close to the border, Zortman said.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7725470/
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  #47  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 04:36 PM       
Oh please. The Mexican government has been assisting people who try and cross the border.

And the border patrol has not been that beefed up.

Granted, it probably has less to do with the what the MM have actually done than it does with the myth of what they do. How many people on this side of the border, with the better media coverage and actual MM websites and ACLU overseers have accused the MM of going around with guns looking to nail some unfortunate fool jumping the border?

Imagine whats going around down there.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 04:38 PM       
I love how Ahnuld tries to blame border crossings on the federal government, when obviously the state itself should be working on efforts to secure the borders too.

If all they do is call the authorities, why do they need firearms?
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Ant10708 Ant10708 is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 09:53 PM       
They don't need firearms and not all of them have them. I think in Arizona you can carry a gun around your waist without a permit. As far as I can see them having a gun is more legal and less of a problem than millions of undocumented people coming and living in our country.
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thebiggameover thebiggameover is offline
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Old May 5th, 2005, 10:25 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant10708
I think in Arizona you can carry a gun around your waist without a permit.
yep. you just need to prove that the gun is yours...
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