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  #26  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 08:38 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
They only concern themselves with the translations when it comes to public image, and answering critics.
Oh come on. With remarks like that how is anyone supposed to take you seriously? If I said those exact words, only was talking about Jews, you'd be screaming ANTISEMITE at me!
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  #27  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 08:50 PM       
Well, go ahead. Let's pretend you said "Jews only concern themselves with the translations when it comes to public image, and answering critics. "

.... it would be inaccurate, dumbshit. A huuuuuge amount of American Jews use English translations during worship. It was a biproduct of assimilation. That isn't the case with practicing Muslims. What other uses do they have for English text besides outreach, and image? You're kidding yourself if you think the Farsi speaking Muslim, and the Arabic speaking Muslim are finding happy middle ground using an English Koran.
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 09:36 PM       
That's beside the point. Unless you'd have me believe antisemitic speech is generally considered accurate.
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  #29  
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 10:12 PM       
Entire sects of Judaism use English text as their prime source for the Torah. What's the equivalent of that in Islam?
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  #30  
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 11:59 PM       
CRUSADE
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  #31  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 12:06 AM       
It is becoming increasingly hard to take this thread seriously, and it was a pretty much a joke from the get go. It's true though all the boogeymen under your bed are muslims, they can live for weeks on end solely on tea and bread.

and seriously what about all these cons that go into prison, and come out muslims. Isn't that evidence enough for you that Islam is a hateful religion. I'm not an exception either guys, the other day I got a speeding ticket.

All I'm saying is that Islam is on trial here (and in no way is this a ploy to try to get off the hook at all) and it's going to be these 12 middle americans that will decide it's fate..


ISLAM YOU'RE ON NOTICE...
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  #32  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 07:07 AM       
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Originally Posted by Chojin
So I assume both of you have read the Koran, yes?
Apparently the defense lawyer and the imam have, and both agree that it justifies preaching the hatred of Jewish people and thus protects this sort of speech. It is their own defense in their own trial.

I want to rad the Koran, now, just to say I have and highlight every shit part of it that I can.
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  #33  
Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 07:10 AM       
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Originally Posted by glowbelly
N.J. Dawood is perhaps the only Jew to have translated the Quran into English. Available in the Penguin edition, Dawood's translation, The Koran (London, 1956) is perhaps the most widely circulated non-Muslim English translation of the Quran. The author's bias against Islam is readily observable in the Introduction. Apart form adopting an unusual Sura order in his translation, Dawood is guilty also of having mistranslated the Quran in places such as Baqara II:9 and A'raf VII:31, etc.

http://www.islam101.com/quran/transAnalysis.htm
LOL.

You are saying the translation is going ot be abnormally hateful and wrong because a Jew translated it?

I guess that the Muslims were upset that he wasn't one of the Jews hiding behind the trees that were shouting: "There is a Jew behind me! Kill him!"
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  #34  
Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 09:14 AM       
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Originally Posted by Kulturkampf

I want to rad the Koran, now, just to say I have and highlight every shit part of it that I can.
Just highlight the parts that aren't shit, it'll use up a lot less ink.
In fact it won't use up any.
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  #35  
Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 09:18 AM       
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Originally Posted by ScruU2wice
It is becoming increasingly hard to take this thread seriously, and it was a pretty much a joke from the get go. It's true though all the boogeymen under your bed are muslims, they can live for weeks on end solely on tea and bread.

and seriously what about all these cons that go into prison, and come out muslims. Isn't that evidence enough for you that Islam is a hateful religion. I'm not an exception either guys, the other day I got a speeding ticket.

All I'm saying is that Islam is on trial here (and in no way is this a ploy to try to get off the hook at all) and it's going to be these 12 middle americans that will decide it's fate..





ISLAM YOU'RE ON NOTICE...
It's certainly hard to take you seriously, I mean you do realise this trial is in Britain don't you? I don't there'll be 12 middle Americans on the jury somehow.
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  #36  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 11:58 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Just highlight the parts that aren't shit, it'll use up a lot less ink.
In fact it won't use up any.
Dude, it's a religious text. Are you going to debunk the bible next? WATER INTO WINE? THAT DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT TO ME. :/

I'm still waiting on that scan. Could you do me a favor and pose nude in the background? We could post it down at planned parenthood as an ominous warning to the prospective homo parents.
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  #37  
Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 12:59 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Just highlight the parts that aren't shit, it'll use up a lot less ink.
In fact it won't use up any.
Dude, it's a religious text. Are you going to debunk the bible next? WATER INTO WINE? THAT DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT TO ME. :/

I'm still waiting on that scan. Could you do me a favor and pose nude in the background? We could post it down at planned parenthood as an ominous warning to the prospective homo parents.
Well water into wine sounds good to me, I guess you'd prefer orange juice, one glass of wine and you're puking your guts out.

You assumed I hadn't read the Koran. I have. You lost.
You accused me of lying and you didn't dare to take up my challenge to prove I wasn't. You lost again.
You're not only a loser, but you're a sore loser, and there's nothing worse than a sore loser.
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  #38  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 01:11 PM       
you can get a free koran from here:

https://www.cair-net.org/explorethequran/request.asp

it's actually a really nice volume. i thought i would get a little paperback book, but i ended up receiving a beautiful hard cover huge copy of the koran that's easy to read with lots of notes/annotations.
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  #39  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 01:21 PM       
Pharaoh, I'm a Muslim. Not a convert. I was born a Muslim, I lived in a Muslim country all of my life, I've been to Mecca three times, I've read the Koran in its original language AND in Farsi AND I think you're stupid.

I don't think you can possibly call yourself educated enough to make sweeping judgements about religion.

You've read ONE translation of the Koran which convinces you that it's brimming with bullshit. I repeat: That is one translation. Authors LIE and misquote religious texts all the time EVEN if they are part of that religion. I've read loads of shitty translations written by other actual Muslims: Pakistanis, Indonesians, Saudis. They were bad enough to make me want to throttle myself to the floor. It's not frusterating because it's merely misleading, it's frusterating because I've read the original text and I know what's in it. That makes it easier for me to detect shit when I read/hear it. And throughout this thread my fucking detector just wouldn't shut up, thanks to your post and that other one's, Kultureadsdfkampf.

Do you know how many translations of the Koran exist in the English language?

Over 200.

Do you honestly think that every one of them is reliable? Do you honestly think that none of these are going to be biased? Do you think that none of these authors will want to convince you of certain things that aren't necessarily true, and don't you think that if that is their aim they would go out of their way and skew certain facts and misquote a few verses just to convince you of something that isn't really there?

If you stopped trying to brand others with illiteracy, and dealt with your own suffering of said problem, you'd actually realize that it's an accepted practice that you cannot translate from one language to another (as your stunning rendition of Arabic to English is showing us now) flawlessly.

Different words exist in different cultures, Japan has the same word for catastrophe as opportunity. Imagine the difference this would make when you're trying to translate an incredibly old text which has words in it that aren't even used in modern Arabic. There are at least 22 Arabic dialects - Those in the Persian Gulf have similar words that refer to completely different things than those in North Africa. Imagine how differently we would all interpret the Koran upon reading.

The Koran doesn't preach MURDER. The koran preaches the right to DEFEND - and if that has to be through murder then so be it. It does not give you the right to attack until it's a last resort. You have to be attacked in order to attack back, and even then, you have to do it through the right party. You can not kill innocent Jews, for example, just because Jewish Israeli soldiers killed a bunch of Muslims in Palestine. That goes against the Koran and is punishible.

The Koran is such a difficult text to comprehend that even MUSLIMS misunderstand most of it, why fucking else would we (the Sunnis) keep fighting with the Shiites? Why fucking else are Wahabists looked down upon in Islamic countries other than Saudi Arabia? Why fucking else are Islamic feminists in constant battle with Muslim political feminists in the Arab world? Because we all interpreted the verses differently.

Islam is not an easy religion. You can't label things 'A' and 'B' and assume that all of us are going to agree with your ever so stupid assumptions. That's why it's a major in many Universities, especially in the Middle East. I know what you're thinking: But they all speak Arabic, why can't they just read it in its original text and understand what it means? Because we too are mislead. That is why stupid terrorists have fooled many of you into believing that they are doing this for the sake of Islam.

Bullshit.

They are doing this for the sake of MONEY. Terrorist organizations around the world are not out to help you understand Islam, nor do they want to convert the world to this religion that they clearly do not understand. They want your money, they want our lives. I say OUR lives because they kill and threaten us as much as they threaten you. I come from Bahrain, which is 45 minutes away from Khobar, Saudi Arabia. I've had family members die due to domestic terrorism. Why would a Muslim attack a fellow Muslim?

Firstly because our corrupt and rediculous governments let them get away with it. Secondly, they get PAID. They do this shit because it helps them get their friends out of prison. "If you don't let them go, we will keep attacking!"

We don't have the technology required to track these mofos down.

Terrorists exists today because their methods work. We have a laughable political culture where you can get away with shady shit. Sudan is known for financially assisting terrorist organizations, so are some really wealthy Saudis. What the fuck does that have to with us? Why do we get the blame as 'Muslims' and 'Arabs' if most of us don't have the heart to do what we are accused of?

When shit like this happens, it does not mean that we are stupid sheep following the headless Zombie that goes by 'Prophet Mohammed', nor does it mean that we are following a religion blindly without wanting to understand what it truly means. It simply means that our media is privately owned and we are forced to sit through the world looking at us through one lense. Basically, we have no choice but to sit here and watch painfully tedious moronic loners like Pharaoh who thinks it's fun to moon a religion and orders it to kiss his herpes-infested asshole because, guess what guys? He's not buying any of it. Big deal. If you think Muslims are the shit on the shoes of humanity then you'd be the dog licking it.

I pity anyone who bases their opinions on a single book they read about a religion they are still clueless about. I shudder with embarrassment for anyone who believes such generalizations without feeling the need to get off their flabby asses and research it further instead of nodding their heads and agreeing to place entirely different NATIONS and beliefs under ONE lazy catagory.

We don't all believe in the same thing. An average Muslim in Muritania would be different than your average Muslim in Yemen. Get over it and hush your sassing.

I argue all the time with other Muslims about what the Koran really says. I argue all the time with professors who teach Islamic Studies abroad. We all argue, but we don't do it ignorantly like you do because we've lived through this our whole lives. We've seen how this religion evolve and change and it saddens me that it has gone downhill due to mass media. The professors I've encountered were living amongst Muslims for many years, studying their movements, studying the different groups of Muslims, and even THEY still admit that they're clueless when it comes to the Koran because they have yet to find a propler translation that doesn't go against what they've seen in Muslim countries they've lived in.

You can't possibly understand terrorism if you're not from a region that has to deal with this everyday. I'm not talking about your yearly 9/11. I'm not talking about European attacks. I'm talking about driving to Saudi to see your family only to be stopped by armed men that look exactly like the terrorists you're constantly exposed to on TV, only to be humiliated in front of others. If you think what you're going through is hell, you can see what these "Muslims" are doing to their fellow Muslims. Imams do this. In my country alone there's 4 official sex offenders who used to preach in mosques. How fucking ironic, dumbass. You'd probably insist that Allah asked them to stab these girls with their wooden peckers. He is so evil, yeah? HE WANTS HIS FOLLOWERS TO TAKE OVER UR COUNTRY RUN FOR THE HILLS. KIDDING GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH.

I studied the Koran for 6 years and STILL, I don't consider myself an expert. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm still 19, but only now have I travelled abroad to pursue a proper education. I've been in a public school studying Persian and Islamic studies and trying my damndest to analyze things accurately. It didn't work that well - because the language used in the Koran is difficult, since it's so perfect and exceptional. But it still felt like I was trying to read through numbers.

But you come here, with your stupid little translation and tell the other members that you know more about this religion than your average ugly toad?

I am SO sick of dimwits like you not knowing how to differentiate between a government, its people, and the religion they supposedly follow. Ahmednijad of Iran is a dick because he's power hungry and his breath smells like fishcakes, not because he's simply Muslim. If he attacked America he'd do it because he's a big dick whose breath smells like fishcakes, not because he's following the Koran.

The Sharia law is a joke because most of it is INVENTED by people who want POWER. Look at Saudi's history and I fucking dare you to prove me wrong. I'm sure you'd still try, by bringing Pat Buchanen along and be so sure that what he has to say is based on accurate analysis and observation and is therefore a solid fact, because you're stupid. And I don't mean just 'haha, stupid.' I mean, 'I want to stomp your face in,' stupid. I mean, 'I want to eat you inside out while you're still alive,' stupid. And this is why I appear to be a tad miffed and irate.

Quote:
Just highlight the parts that aren't shit, it'll use up a lot less ink.
In fact it won't use up any.
I'm sure you can do all sorts of other exciting things with the crayons they let you draw with.

Seriously, what a cretinous thread.

Like the sound of a baby shitting itself.
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  #40  
Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 01:51 PM       
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 02:01 PM       
Wow, Pharaoh. You're a real asshole.
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  #42  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 02:34 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Spare us.
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  #43  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 02:41 PM       
I see that Pharaoh, like kulture, has come to this forum in search of meaningful debate.
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  #44  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 03:16 PM       
Pharaoh is another closed minded conservative moron whose sole reason to exist is to call people who disagree with him a "liberal" or "hippy"
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  #45  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 04:01 PM       
Excellent post from Fuzzbot. Unfortunately, I don't think the climate within Islam is nearly as progressive and open minded for discussion as he makes it sound. Like I've said before, the idea of the Arabist Muslim is a myth in and of itself. The people of these nations allow their governments to either misrepresent or oppress them, without recourse. Groups like CAIR will send you a free Koran, preach peace, and then support militant groups, and promote the Shari'a laws. I think his ideals are correct, and fairly progressive, but the thought that extremists are marginalized within the community isn't exactly true right now. Hopefully, with his generation, that will become a reality soon.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 04:17 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't ever, ever again say that nobody on this board will engage you on the issues. You're an ass.

ABC is right, that was a very insightful post. Regarding the generational stuff-- I was led to believe that the coming generation in these countries would make the difference. I also read countless tales of Iran getting anxious for modernity.

This is why the election of Ahmadinejad struck me as quite a surprise. I mean, I know he campaigned differently than he is governing, but the guy still essentially ean as a populist. I don't see how a younger generation yearning for pop culture and freedom could ever tolerate this guy....
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 05:22 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't ever, ever again say that nobody on this board will engage you on the issues. You're an ass.
I never have said that, I don't care if you debate with me or not. If you think I'm going to respond properly to stuff like 'And I don't mean just 'haha, stupid.' I mean, 'I want to stomp your face in,' stupid. I mean, 'I want to eat you inside out while you're still alive,' stupid.', then you're an ass.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 06:39 PM       
Insightful post from Fuzzbox?

LOL.

It was:

"Hey, I am a Muslim from a Muslim country SO SHUT UP BECAUSE ONLY MY OPINION IS VALID, it is not as if I am BIAS, i tis just that you are IGNORANT and don't understand anything about the Koran... "

He does not bother to address any of the issues or questions that we have concerning the utter hatred in it, and how it has been used by Islamists to reference times where apparently trees were calling out "Come here, there is a Jew hiding behind me -- kill him!"

Be respectful in the future, Fuzzbox, and try to explain yourself.

Just because you have liberal cheerleaders here does not mean that you hae the right to be aggressive and skip over arguments as they do.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 07:03 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
Insightful post from Fuzzbox?
He does not bother to address any of the issues or questions that we have concerning the utter hatred in it, and how it has been used by Islamists to reference times where apparently trees were calling out "Come here, there is a Jew hiding behind me -- kill him!"
I guess you missed this part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
The Koran doesn't preach MURDER. The koran preaches the right to DEFEND - and if that has to be through murder then so be it. It does not give you the right to attack until it's a last resort. You have to be attacked in order to attack back, and even then, you have to do it through the right party. You can not kill innocent Jews, for example, just because Jewish Israeli soldiers killed a bunch of Muslims in Palestine. That goes against the Koran and is punishible.
BTW, unless you are talking about the cut of a fabric the word "bias" as in "I have a bias" is a noun. The word "biased" as in "I am biased" is an adjective. Not trying to play grammar nazi, but that little snippet of your ignorance just happens to be a pet peeve of mine.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 07:10 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't ever, ever again say that nobody on this board will engage you on the issues. You're an ass.
I never have said that, I don't care if you debate with me or not. If you think I'm going to respond properly to stuff like 'And I don't mean just 'haha, stupid.' I mean, 'I want to stomp your face in,' stupid. I mean, 'I want to eat you inside out while you're still alive,' stupid.', then you're an ass.
You dismissed an entire post that went against EVERYTHING you said in this thread merely because you didn't like how I phrased that? You poor, piteous pipsqueak.

Quote:
I don't see how a younger generation yearning for pop culture and freedom could ever tolerate this guy....
That's exactly it.

Do you know how he gained his popularity at first? He promised modernization. My mother is an Iranian immigrant (loads of those in Bahrain) and she was all for him at first. He said all kinds of sweet stuff that included things such as making all schools and universities coeducational, of course it would appeal to his citizens.

Many Iranians are against him now because he clearly went against everything he said. For some reason they were trying to deny the fact that he's just going to fuck up the country further. They felt like he gave them hope, protection, and a better future. Only now do they realize what a mistake they made, but who else were they going to pick? Someone this young and energetic who filled their heads with ideals he doesn't really believe in, or a former thief and liar who is very submissive to the West's wants and needs?

He's a great public speaker, people were deceived by his pretty words. I've heard him talk. The "honesty" that is expressed so sensitively is extremely persuasive and seductive. We are not built to react with caution when we come across beautiful, alluring things. This region is so fucked up that almost anything goes, just tell us "I have hope" and consider our votes yours.

It's only after you think about what he says more clearly that you realize how dangerous he is. Now he's crossed the line, no one trusts him and it's causing a lot of chaos in Iran. CNN makes it seem like the Iranians are all for him, that is not true. I say this because I am exposed to many Iranians' opinions everyday. I grew up with these people. Most of my cousins still reside there. I come from a country where thousands of Iranians migrated to during the Islamic Revolution. They were treated badly, so they reacted badly, we had to deport a lot of them.

The rest, who were more calm because they were desperate for a place to stay, started families, so the Shiite Iranian population is fairly large. Though many have moved on to other places - Jordan, UAE, etc, some are in exile in those places. Our King, in celebration of Eid about 3 years ago, pardoned them all, but not many decided to come back to the country that offered nothing but shit in return.

In Bahrain there's a similar situation (though not half as bad, thank God.) It's MY generation who are making the difference. People my age are constantly protesting, writing, insisting that their voices don't go unheard until finally, the government turned around and listened to what we had to say. Because of this, the Family Law in Bahrain is going to change. Because of this, Bahrain is turning into a democratic monarchy instead of remaining a strict constitutional monarchy, we can now write freely in private journals and newsletters and not get punished because our constitution include articles that give you many rights of freedom of expression.

After those rights were given, so many people started writing books that I believe will soon make a good difference.

Bahrain is the 3rd most dangerous country in the world to blog from because everything we write was used against us. Many political bloggers were imprisoned or have "disappeared" due to the articles they posted. We did not accept that. After many cases such as this, we stood up, and wrote as many articles as possible to stop this. And not just people my age, literally everyone. Political activists of all parties and of all ages faught together as a tightly-knit community which shook the entire nation. Newspapers, magazines, websites, protests, and (unfortunately) many acts of violence. It took years for these things to have such a strong effect, strong enough that the state would consider changing laws that have existed for years.

But it worked, so if anyone ever tells you that rebelling is for the weak and you can never do it right through noisy and angry protests, kick them in the shins. This is the only reason we've come this far, to be one of the most democratic countries in the Middle East.

After a huge petition, not only are webmasters no longer required to register with the state and offer a brief description of the nature of their website (so that they can either approve or disapprove of it) anymore, we can write whatever we want in the websites we own. Obviously, most people who own websites are youngsters. But most of the people who are politically involved are youngsters too, because we've seen the way others live and we want it.

We don't want the American lifestyle, that is not what we want. If someone here tells me that we are a mess and we blame it on America because we're jealous of the way we live, then I shall kick their face. We have other things in mind. We also DO take responsibility for our actions, we don't blame America or the Jews or convince ourselves that everything is a Zionist Conspiracy - this is precisely why fights break out between religious groups within the country. That whole "let's all group the Arabs in one place and assume they all have the same mentality, they all hate America and wish death and AIDS upon us" is a scam that makes you want to loathe a bunch of people who didn't even have a thing against you. As a matter of fact, we quite like you. We like you so much that we have American schools and American products and places to go for Americans to show them how welcome they are, and we don't do it through fear. We do it because any American who goes there willingly is great because they're giving us a chance, they want to learn.

Unless you're an American who has to be there because it's an order. Still, why don't you contact American marines who are based in Bahrain and see how happy they are? Hell, some of these people were so happy that I know of at least 2 soldiers who married Bahrainis after converting to Islam. Others can't help but learn more about Islam and attempt to speak the Arabic language because they realize, after actually living there, that we are greatly misunderstood.

But, in sum, we don't kiss your asses. Liking wouldn't have anything to do with fear or wanting to be more like you. What we want is to stick to our culture, beliefs, and traditions but to be more modern about it - for example, arranged marriages shouldn't exist. We should be allowed to mishmash with one another no matter what our gender is - this works perfectly in Bahrain. A woman can freely walk around with miniskirts hand-in-hand with a guy and no one could tell her anything. This is one of our big steps forward. Another big step forward is more freedom through Islam.

We also want a better future financially, so one of our goals is to keep growing economically, making more and more investments, since employment has been an issue. We are doing this very well - but I'm afraid the UAE and Qatar might be in the lead. (Yes, it's a competition. Members of the GCC don't get along because each country wants to get ahead of the other. This is because all you need in the Middle East in order to succeed is power and wealth, and any crucial GCC leader would have both. This means America would want to ally with you because you can control other members of the GCC and have the ability to bend them to your will. VERY good, we are trying to kick Saudi Arabia out of that spotlight but due to the fact that we are the size of a bathtub compared to the rest of the region, this might not work too well. However, the UAE might do this within the next 20 years. They have bigger, better, and smarter plans.)

But, to go back to your point again, yes. Iranians won't accept Ahmednijad because he keeps saying "we will make progress" but nothing's going on, if anything it just keeps getting worse.

The more young people are engaged (which is currently the case in Iran,) three things might happen:
1) The less seriously you're taken as a nation, 2) The more chaotic the situation will be because the youngsters are also more destructive, fearless and violent,
3) The better the outcome will be (as seen in the example I gave with Bahrain's youth.)

Many Iranians feel helpless because they have to deal with yet another totalitarian leader, but most will fight back. Many are going out of their way to try and make the American media understand that they are in dire need of HELP, but not through war. Iran has done and built a lot in preparation for this moment, ever since the Iran-Iraqi wars they've been paranoid. If America thinks this is going to be just another easy Iraq they are dead wrong, this will be a huge mistake on their part.

If you want to know more things about Islam, especially in Iran, check out John Esposito's "Islam and Politics." Wonderful stuff, the guy knows what he's talking about. For an introduction to the conflicts between Iran and America throughout history, check out Kenneth Pollack's "The Persian Puzzle."
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