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  #51  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 02:37 PM       
Of course you hate what's going on you moron. Go check out the blogs "in support of the Zionist entity". You think Israel and her supporters are happy? You think Israel likes getting hit with 1000 rockets in a week? You think Israel likes fighting a war against two terrorist groups that bae themselves inside civilian populations specifically to maximize the death tolls. You thin Israel likes that it's hands are tied from retaliating against the two States sponsoring these biproxy attacks? You think that Israelis like that no nothings like you put the blame squarely on Israel? Or that the daily attacks on Israeli civilians are so sordid and numerous, they're rarely reported. did you hear about the fire bombings yesterday? Knife attacks? The Rafah border opening up for arms smuggling again? Who can keep track? Israel is being attacked at two borders, and it is no coincidence, even if the media keeps treating these are seperate instances, and seperate organizations.

The escalation was the assasination of a Lebanese head of state. The escalation was putting Hizzballah and Hamas in government.

If Miami or San Antonio wer getting hit with rockets on a daily basis, what would we do?

Finally, what exactly do you expect Israel to do?! They don't have the luxury of being a pacifist nation. If you don't like the death toll, then why would 1 million Israeli Arabs, and 5 million Jews "pushed into the sea" sound like a better option?
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  #52  
mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 02:51 PM       
"If the Republican Party had an armed wing, let's call it the NRA, and they crossed the Canadian border and kidnapped two mounties, what would a justified response be from the Canadaians? "

The destruction of the infrastructurue of the entire United States.

"What if Canada had evidence that the NRA was not only being supported in their efforts by Mexico, but they also intended to smuggle those poor mounties into Mexico or Guatemala?"

Follow the destruction of US infrastructure with bombing campiagns in Mexico ANF gautemala, to be on the safe side.

"What if Canada learned that the whole thing was orcehstrated by Guatemala and Mexico, and instead of cooperating, the NRA continued to attack Canada?"

Intensify bombimng of Mexico and Guatemala

"What if the U.S. government claimed to have no control over the NRA, despite UN pressure to disram them?"

Bomb DC directly

"Would Canada be justified in trying to prevent the NRA from getting those mounties into Mexico, or would Canada simply ignore the role the U.S. played in the whole mess?"

Not only justified, you could hope that the situation would result in a much wider war that might finally wipe out te NRA. Secretly, the US government is hoping for just such a thing and welcomes the destruction of their infrastructure. If Canada plays its cards right, The soviet Union will come in on their side and instutue regume change in Mexico and Guatemala, which will go off without a hitch, as their recent sovietization of Brazil did. Sure, tons and tons and tons of people will die, but in the long run we know for certain that a sovietized Central and South America will usher in a golden age that will make all the slaughter worth it. And even if it doesn't, do the Canadians really have any choice?

"What should Israel do, Ziggy?"

Israel?! I thought we were talking about Canada! Oh, wait, my name isn't Ziggy.
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  #53  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 02:53 PM       
My "Free Lebanon!" T-shirt is on back order....
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 03:25 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Of course you hate what's going on you moron. Go check out the blogs "in support of the Zionist entity". You think Israel and her supporters are happy? You think Israel likes getting hit with 1000 rockets in a week? You think Israel likes fighting a war against two terrorist groups that bae themselves inside civilian populations specifically to maximize the death tolls. You thin Israel likes that it's hands are tied from retaliating against the two States sponsoring these biproxy attacks? You think that Israelis like that no nothings like you put the blame squarely on Israel?
So very sorry. I'll order my Israel cheerleading outfit today, and later on you can show me some of the routines!
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ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 06:32 PM       
well, since you're being a nancy no-show, let me try one-

Go Jews, defeat Lebanon!
Zionist can do no wrong!



ugh, the meter on that just sucks! help please!
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  #56  
Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Jul 18th, 2006, 06:41 PM       
Hence: "The War on Terror."
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #57  
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 04:22 AM       
I had the chance to visit with an old friend of my grandparents, today. She's Morrocan, and grew up in France, before moving to Israel in the 40's to voulenteer with the creation of the Israeli State - as in, there was nothing there previously in the way of a fully functioning country. She didn't go to immigrate, she went to work the land, and build communities. She described a fair they had to invite the Arabs, and nobody showed up. The news reports she watches make absolutely no sense to here, because she remembers the war of Independence was fought against Britian, and Trans-Jordan - she had never heard of Palestinians. Neither had my mother, who went to Israel in 1967 with the Israel peace corp. to help work with the refugees near Gaza. Both of them talk about the bedouins, who were nice and friendly with Jews, and the Arabs who stayed, all of which were happy to see their quality of life improve with Israel's creation.


Look, I appreciate that Miss Modular could admit that she doesn't understand exactly what's going on. It is confusing....
I mean, it's hard not to root for State sponsored Islamic seperatists that use children as human shields. Those human rights groups, peaceniks, moderate Muslims, and mainstream Islamic groups can't all be wrong. Their nationalism, occupations, and settlements are excempt! All that Holocaust turnspeak/revitionism, and 58 years of talking about pushing Jews into the ocean are just the natural result of being life long refugees with mortgages, dual citizenship, and humanitarian aid.
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  #58  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 09:55 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
I mean, it's hard not to root for State sponsored Islamic seperatists that use children as human shields.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 10:11 AM       
You're right, Abcgdgxfdc. It IS confusing. I'm confused by why, when the situation is so obviously black and white, so clearly a case of Angels Vs. Monsters in the middle east and so obviously a case of good simple moral forthright Americans vs. self hating, cretinous peacenik zombies here in the USA this problem wasn't solved long ago by simple, cleansing violence.

Haven't we bent over backwards long enough? I think it's clear that if we just kill enough arabs all the other arabs will, if not love us, at least accept us.

I mean, those guys are stupid enough to believe tat if they kill enough of us, we'll be cowed by terror and give up? How stupid is that? Like bombing us and threatening us would ever make us change our minds! What, do they think we're weak?

All we need to do is destroy their infrastrcuture. A little shock and awe will turn them right around.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM       
Max, they're destroying the infrastructure (at least initially) in order to prevent the transfer of the IDF soldiers.

The Lebanese government can't prevent this, and elements from outside of their country are encouraging it.

WHAT should Israel do? Prisoner swap? i know that'll ultimately be the deal, which I find unfortunate. If you're going to go in a do so much damage in Lebanon, shouldn't you help the Lebanese uphold their obligation to disarm ONE of their political parties?

Hezbollah has jeopardized Lebanese security, and they don't give a shit about the people in that country.
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  #61  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 01:14 PM       
Max, Ziggy ... do you guys think your responses are based in some reality that applies to the mid-east conflict?

There's only one side saying they want to destroy a country and cleanse an ethnicity, and it's not Israel saying it. So wake up.

Nobody is thrilled with the Lebanon incursion. There's no cheerleading. If Israel does this right, we'll have one less terrrorist organization, one less occupation, Syria will be taken down a notch, Israeli's won't have missiles going through their bedroom windows...and ultimately a Free Lebanon.

Got a problem with that?
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  #62  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 02:45 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
If Israel does this right, we'll have one less terrrorist organization, one less occupation, Syria will be taken down a notch, Israeli's won't have missiles going through their bedroom windows...and ultimately a Free Lebanon.

Got a problem with that?
Explain how bombing the whole of Lebanon back to the Stone Age destroys Hezbollah and frees Lebanon. Explain how their actions even remotely discourage rampant anti-Semitism in the region. Explain how that is based in any reality that applies to any modern conflict.

I've got a problem with blood for blood, because it never ends.

"There's only one side saying they want to destroy a country and cleanse an ethnicity, and it's not Israel saying it. So wake up. "

Actions speak MUCH louder than words. Israel may not be saying "we want to destroy Lebanon," but they are actively decimating them right now. Is it possible for Israel to destroy Hezbollah? Is it possible to do it without destroying Lebanon? Will these events advance or impede the causes of other antisemetic groups in the region?

I think those are all valid concerns.
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  #63  
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 03:01 PM       
Not to be an anal retentive nit-picker, but Arabs are semetic.
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  #64  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 03:04 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytrix
Explain how their actions even remotely discourage rampant anti-Semitism in the region. Explain how that is based in any reality that applies to any modern conflict.
I know these questions were directed at abc, but I would like to address this one.

I think your logic here seems to give very little credit to moderate Arabs and/or muslims.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying here that Israel responding to a nation that has openly been attacking them will only spread anti-semitism. How does that make sense? Is it because a Jew is dropping the bomb? Maybe a Jew made the decision to bomb?

This line of thought really bugs me. Israel does things that may offend people, so hey, no wonder they want to wipe out every Jew in the Middle East. I don't see the connection, and since Jordan, Egypt, and even Saudi Arabia have all defended Israel's right to take out Hezbollah, I struggle to see how this is a Jewish thing.

Let's not make excuses for ignorance.
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ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 03:59 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying here that Israel responding to a nation that has openly been attacking them will only spread anti-semitism.
It's not the response, but the degree of response. If you have a doctor who cures patients, he's a good doctor. If he kills the patient and then declares the disease eliminated, he's a quack.

I'm not saying Israel has gone too far - it's really too soon for that sort of statement to be made objectively. But I am concerned there is a fine line to tread between self-defense and a full-out offensive.

Quote:
since Jordan, Egypt, and even Saudi Arabia have all defended Israel's right to take out Hezbollah
If it stops there, at taking out Hezbollah with minimal losses to the whole of Lebanon, then great!
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  #66  
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Old Jul 19th, 2006, 11:15 PM       
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Originally Posted by Preechr
Hence: "The War on Terror."
This was misplaced. Had I timed it better, it might have made more sense. It applies again here, though, so let me try again...

Israel is not bombing all of Lebanon "into the stone age." Israel is targeting terrorist resources and structures, sometimes even regardless of whether they are located in, among or around civilians. The location of these targets was selected by the terrorists, not Israel. The location of the civilians are selected by the civilians, not Israel. You can bet your sweet ass if Hezbollah sets up shop next door to me and starts shooting shoulder fired rockets into Atlanta, I'm moving.

The War on Terror, despite the cynical argument that we cannot wage war on a tactic, is actually all about eliminating the last available tactic of international ne'er-do-wells and miscreants. Israel is helping such misguided folk to understand this tactic no longer serves their goals. Israel is making them look dead and silly. Dead and/or silly looking people cannot oppress the people of globalization's gap as easily as those that are alive and powerful looking. It's hard to lie your way out of getting turned into glass impurities by a multi-million-dollar smart bomb dropped from a billion-dollar jet while you were trying to get your two-dollar Chinese/Iranian rocket to work.

We and the Israelis, along with seven Brits and a couple of Aussies, are winning hearts and minds here. Iran and Syria are looking pretty darn impotent at the moment, and their wacked out little arms dealer, Kim Jong Il, isn't turning out to be as helpful as he promised.

This is the War on Terror. Ain't it great?
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #67  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 12:49 AM       
This is a photo from a "pro-Lebanon" rally today in NYC. Check out what the sign all the way to the right says:

EDIT:

Nevermind, it won't show.

You can view it here.
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  #68  
Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 01:23 AM       
Following the link, however, lets you see the rest of the pictures in that series, which then gives you a headache.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #69  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 01:48 AM       
That's nothing, check out San Francisco...





Oh, and somebody wanted some cheers?

Pro-Palestinian protesters:
"Black, red, brown, white!
Black, red, brown, white!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Viva viva Palestina!
Black, red, green, white!
Black, red, brown, white!
Black, red, green, white!
Black, red, brown, white!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
We support Hezbollah's fight!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
Black, red, green, blue!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!
We support Hamas too!"

Pro-Palestinian protesters:
"Long live the intifada!
Long live the intifada!
Long live the intifada!
Long live the intifada!
Intifada intifada!
Intifada intifada!
Intifada intifada!"
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 02:24 PM       
Do you know what organization made those shirts?

They make me angry.
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  #71  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 03:00 PM       
ANSWER, with some local Islamic Supremacist group.

http://zombietime.com/israeli_consul..._july_13_2006/
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 03:31 PM       
I like the guy rubbing his fingers together doing the "money grubbing" thing towards the pro-Israeli crowd. Classy.
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Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 03:44 PM       
Ziggy, I think it's your response which is disproportionate. Where's the worry and care about the Hizzbalah provocations? Syria's occupation? How about the Lebanese prisoners in Syria? If Syria wants to take support from Iran to fight a proxy war in Lebanon against Israel using a foreign army of occupation then that's the deal the Lebanese get dealt. If any of the arab states thought this was a BAD idea then they would have moved against it. Don't try to soft sell me the consequences of harboring murderous maniacs with the blood of thousands of civilians IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, to me. The truth is they don't care about Lebanon, nearly as much as they care about killing all Jews. Hell, all these groups and nations HATE EACH OTHER, but Pan-Arabism, and Pan-Islamism found that war against Jews can unite them all. Yeah, it's fucked that their human shields are paying the price, but it's even more fucked that nobody makes half as much of a fuss over the fact that Hamas and Hezzballah purposely use human shields to begin with. Less then 400 deaths in a week for a military strike of this size shows unprecedented accuracy. Israel has phoned ahead or sent warnings prior bomb airports and other populated zones. Maybe you need to look into what Lebanon really looked like in the Stone Ages, or even 1984 if you think that's where this is headed. Maybe the Lebanese should revisit that decision tree to ignore Hezbollah, now. Like I've said before, No one seemed to notice or care when Hezbollah was openly a foreign army of occupation in Lebanon engineering a billion dollar financial theft to transfer assets back to Syria. If that's something you enjoy, well, enjoy it then.

Quote:
Explain how their actions even remotely discourage rampant anti-Semitism in the region.
Israel's actions do not promote anti-semitism. It's not their job to discourage anti-semitism. Jewish self determination is not a counter response to antisemitism either. I mean sure, the best way to fight anti-semitism is to just stop being Jewish, but Jews aren't going to lay down or take that self defeating advice. Again, are you suggesting that Arabs hate Jews and spread institutionalized antisemitism asa justified response to Jewish provocations. These rogue military strikes against Israel are fueld by hatred against Jews...and while you might be uncomfortable with that truth, it's not something Hezzballah or the Palestinian leadership have been ambigious about. Now think about what you're asking me....because it's about as absurd as asking a Black American what they did to discourage the KKK.


Quote:
Will these events advance or impede the causes of other antisemetic groups in the region?
Learn your history. When Israel left their buffer zone occupation of Southern Lebanon it strengthened Hizzaballah, and the other antisemitic groups in the region. Check the timing of the second Intifadah too. Some even say that 9/11 happened in part due to the momentum these organizations felt once Israel left. What we know for certain is what hasn't worked...unilateral consentions, don't work. Negotiations with these groups, don't work. Prisoners trades, do not work. That stuff only reads as a victory to these people, and they will just keep on doing it, because well - it worked the first time. Any other suggestions? What has worked? Flexing their muscle. I'm sorry, it may not appeal to you, but it's a historical truth.
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Old Jul 20th, 2006, 03:49 PM       
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Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
I like the guy rubbing his fingers together doing the "money grubbing" thing towards the pro-Israeli crowd. Classy.
That would be my favorite too!
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 21st, 2006, 10:28 AM       
I know I know, this story is a little bit too cute for its own good, but I think it's worth noting. I think the girl in the story is right about the significance of two "high tech" nations going to war.


Jerusalem Post

Israelis and Lebanese are still talking - on the Net


Sheera Claire Frenkel, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 21, 2006

As soon as the first rockets began hitting the North, Shira, a 17-year-old from Haifa, went straight to the message boards of www.beirut.com where she asked a question no politician has yet breached: After all this, would you date a Jew?

"I asked a lot of questions, and that was one of them," she said, adding that she felt the question gave her a broader sense of how Lebanese teens were feeling about Israelis as a whole. The responses she received were mixed, but the teen said that in all fairness, it was unlikely that she herself would date a Lebanese man.

Diplomatic talks between Israel and Lebanon may appear distant, but virtual talks between Lebanese and Israeli nationals are gathering steam daily on the Internet. Hundreds are signing on daily to blog, chat and post about the ongoing violence, with many finding new ways to relate to one another.

"It's important to note that this community existed for some time before the war broke out," said Lisa Goldman, who has used her blog, ontheface.blogware.com, to publicize Israeli-Lebanese blogging since the current crisis broke out. "We have tons of things in common. We come from two of the most liberal, educated countries in the Middle East. Many of us received a western education. We have talked, wrote, and dreamed about open borders between our countries."

Goldman described one experience in which she was sitting at her Tel Aviv home sending Instant Messages to a Beirut blogger as he described the sounds of rockets falling outside. "I think it is really important to point out that it is a history-making event - it is revolutionary," said Goldman. "The fact that the citizens of two warring countries are maintaining a dialogue while a war is going on cannot be ignored... [i] think it will be the most blogged war in history."

For many, the attraction of going on-line has to do with connecting with one another without the third party filter that a media outlet generally provides. "I wanted to know what they were thinking, especially people my age," Shira. "I don't know any politicians or important military guys. The only people for me to appeal to are my peers."

Shira said she had found interesting and informative arguments about the violence on the message boards. Many of the posts were "hateful," she said, comparing the IDF to Nazi forces and calling for a global Arab attack on Israel. "I ignored the hateful posts, and focused on the ones that seemed to go past the ignorance," said Shira. "I found people I could relate to... I wanted them to understand me so that I wouldn't be 'the enemy.'"

Middle Eastern bloggers sprang into action within hours of the initial violence, exchanging photos via Web sites such as www.flickr.com, and long message strings on sites such as lebanesebloggers.blogspot.com. There have also been chat rooms set up by Jewish and Lebanese bloggers to allow for real-time communication between the two communities.

Take for instance, some of the posts on the www.beirut.com message board under the Politics subtopic.

"The politicians today (as they always did in Lebanon!) are playing on people's fear. Fear of the people from another religion, from another community," wrote a poster named Nouce.

In response to a post from "DJ Glutton" saying, "Israel is our enemy, and never forget it," a poster calling himself "Bloody Roses" wrote: "Thirty years of Syrian occupation had damaging results. There are many problems between Lebanese that need to be solved once we are free...

Unfortunately, there are still many [in] Lebanon who are not working for Lebanese interests, but for Iranian and Syrians ones... Hizbullah is a real threat for Lebanon, they are a group of fanatics who are heavily armed."

One of the most popular posts was from a young man nicknamed "A.D.I.D.A.S" (All day I dream of sex). "We are all Lebanese. I suggest that, if the US and the other forces leave Leb[anon] alone politically, economically and whatever alone, we can live peacefully without any troubles."

"I like reading the posts because they sounded like the way people here talked about things," said Shira. She said that although she had spent the most time on the Politics message board, she had also found that she had a lot in common with Lebanese teens when she started reading the Arts, Culture and Entertainment boards. Like her own friends, most Lebanese teens did not appear willing to let their social lives come to a halt just because a war happened to be going on.

Although the Politics board of Beirut.com appears to have gathered steam in the wake of recent violence, by far the most popular boards remain the Dating and Jokes sections.

While several dozen jokes about Haifa and other northern Israeli communities have already been posted, it was a different Haifa - pop singer and model Hayfa Wehbeh - who stole the show with 1,403 jokes in her (or about her) honor.
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