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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 07:24 PM        Something Disheartening
edit: I'm sure you all saw this on MSNBC yesterday, but I'll post it anyway

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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/24/in...al/24SERG.html

Army Offers a Few Details and a Theory of Motivation
By PETER T. KILBORN with DIANA JEAN SCHEMO

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky., March 23 ? The soldier suspected of killing a fellow soldier and wounding 15 others was identified today as Sgt. Asan Akbar, who, a military official said, had "an attitude problem."
Sergeant Akbar, a soldier in an engineer unit, is under investigation in a grenade and small-arms attack on the command tents of the 101st Airborne Division in Kuwait this morning. The Pentagon identified the soldier killed as Capt.Christopher S. Seifert, 27.
George Heath, the deputy public affairs officer at Fort Campbell, the division's base, provided few personnel details but said Sergeant Akbar had been in the Army long enough to have attained the rank of sergeant and to have commanded four to eight men.
"He was having what some people might call an attitude problem," Mr. Heath said, declining to provide further explanation. Asked about a motive for the attack, he said, "I've heard some people say it may have been retribution."
Standing nervously outside his brick house in Baton Rouge, the front door draped with an American flag, Sergeant Akbar's stepfather, William Bilal, 52, pondered what might have troubled his stepson. "His mother doesn't believe it's him, you know, the heart of a mother," Mr. Bilal said. "I'm not saying it's not him, but I don't know. I'd like to know."
The family spells Sergeant Akbar's first name "Hasan." His mother, Quran Bilal, was inside the house but declined to speak. Mr. Bilal said she worked as a driver. The two divorced about 15 years ago.
"I remember last Christmas he was complaining about the double standards in the military," Mr. Bilal said. "Hasan told me it was difficult for a black man to get rank in the military, and he was having a hard time."
In Kuwait, Maj. Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of the 101st, said that 15 soldiers were wounded and one had died in the attack. It took place in a tent for the command and control area of the First Brigade. Sergeant Akbar was in custody but had not been charged in the attack, officials said.
Military officials had described Sergeant Akbar as a Muslim convert.
Mr. Heath said today that Sergeant Akbar might have adopted his name recently, but he could not provide an earlier name. He said he did not know the man's religion, but added, "I heard from a very reliable source that he may have converted to Islam."
The Tennessean, a Nashville newspaper, reported today on its Web site that Sergeant Akbar was named Mark Fidel Kools at his birth but that his mother changed his name to Hasan Akbar when he was a boy. Mr. Heath said he could not confirm the report.
As a soldier of the 326th Engineer Battalion, Sergeant Akbar was responsible for clearing land mines, razor wire and other obstacles to the division's advance.
Sergeant Akbar grew up in Baton Rouge and in Southern California. Today, Mr. Bilal said, "If he did do it, then it was either pressure of this or a combination of things. If they link Hasan to the grenades, after a proper investigation and leads and everything points to him, then we'll put it in the hands of God. We all have to try and uphold the law."
Mr. Bilal, an air conditioner salesman, rejected speculation that Sergeant Akbar felt uncomfortable in the Army because of his religion. "He never expressed those concerns to me," he said.
Mr. Bilal said that his stepson did not have a violent past and that his upbringing was "normal, with no problems."
Ishmael Akbar, Sergeant Akbar's brother, said he was "being prayerful and hopeful" but had not heard from his brother in months.
Experts on military law said today that a soldier accused in such an attack would probably face a range of charges. The most serious would be murder, which could carry the death penalty.
An attack on a command center, staffed by senior officers, could also bring charges of attempted manslaughter, maiming, housebreaking, misbehavior before the enemy and mutiny, said Eugene R. Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, an independent nonprofit organization.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 09:35 PM       
What about charging him with treason and putting him in front of a firing squad?

I mean, no matter how disgruntled you are, you don't attack your own guys, especially when you're a Muslim in the middle of Muslim Land in a war against a Muslim country.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 09:49 PM        Failure....
First, I find the comment made by pops regarding this guys allergation that its hard for a black man to make rank to be ricockulous. If I'm not mistaken, all four branches rely on a number of factors, none of which become subjective until you compete for senior NCO.

Anyhow, I am kind of curious as to why the folks around him didn't recognize some signs. Here is a guy with an obvious muslim faith. It could be possible that he would harbour some misgivings about said war. On top of that, include his history, obvious unhappiness with his current situation, etc.

How none of these signs were recognized, even so much so as to give a potentially disgruntled soldier a post guarding ammunition and grenades seems a little negligent to me.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:12 PM       
UCMF needs to be done to this asshole. Pussifed troops thanks to Madam Clinton made us have to accept his beliefs and his "culllture". Why was he even allowed in the fucking colition to fight in Iraq, let alone in the military? We need to quit worrying about the feeeellllings and respecting the multicultrallllll views of the military and get people who arent going to flip out and murder our own fucking troops.

Put a bullet in his fucking brain. Send the head back to his parents with "T R A I T O R" tattoed to it.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:34 PM       
Yep. And when we finish dealing with the godless muslims, maybe we can do something about all them ******s too.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:40 PM       
Continue to talk, Chojin. You will continue to discredit yourself.

Wahabbi (spelling is not correct by a long shot) Muslims are of the Muslim sect that declares jihad. These are the sect of muslims that would murder you in the time it takes to pull the trigger or unsheathe the knife. We need to quit pussy-footing around when it comes to our military. Should we let a big group of a certain Muslim sect in that would betray our country and kill our men? I guess as long as we were nice to them and their feelings weren't hurt about their beliefs, its hunky dory.

The military is not the place to have your feelings accomidated. Its a place to learn how to kill human beings and destroy things. End of story.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:41 PM       
What? Don't you hate ******s too?
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:49 PM       
"Yep. And when we finish dealing with the godless muslims, maybe we can do something about all them ******s too." -Chojin


Now, no prejudice intended, but I always check with the Bible on these here things. I think that, I mean if God had meant for us to be together he'd a put us together. But look what he done. He put you over in Africa, and put the rest of us in all the white countries.

That was one good thing about President Nixon. He kept Pat home. Which was where Roosevelt should have kept Eleanor. Instead he let her run around loose until one day she discovered the colored. We never knew they was there. She told them they were gettin' the short end of the stick and we been having trouble ever since.

(guess those quotes!)
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:50 PM       
I must, since I went out with a black woman for almost a year. Beautiful, intelligent woman too.

It' always amuses me that we conseratives are supposed to be the evil racists, but you hardly ever see us flinging around the "n-word" so to speak. Althought liberals love to fling it around because they have a point and they care.

Fly down to St. Louis and lets take a trip down to East St. L. Talk the way you do. Let's see who makes it out without breathing.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:52 PM       
The second one I will have to look up, but the first one is from the GREATEST sitcom character in the history of television. Archibald Bunker.
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:56 PM       
They both are

edit: I altered the tense on the second one as not to give it away. He uses the present case for Nixon's presidency
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:12 AM       
Archie Bunker and George Jefferson were perfect characters. Both were jerks. But both of them really did say things that were common sence and things that were totally ignorant. They were two sides of the same coin.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:13 AM        Yeah
Dear Ronnie, errr, clone.....
Yeah if it wasn't for that god damn pussy liberal Clinton, this would have never happened! In fact, it all started when that god damn Eisenhower guy started all that desegregation bullshit. Before you knew it, there were all kinds of god damn hooligans in the miltary.

You know what else we ought to do? We ought to seek ought all the muslim Americans serving in the Armed Forces before THEY get the chance to lob some grenades too! Those god damn muslims!

Sorry, I can't talk long. I've got to get back to the business of training to be a heartless killing machine, because that's what we do.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:14 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Let's see who makes it out without breathing.
At least I'll leave with one joke up on you.

Make that two.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:18 AM       
Look GA, he has a point. Unless you've put in your time, you don't really get what he's saying about Clinton ruining the service.

We lost all the Chiefs that were worth a fuck under Clinton and soon after, because they didn't like what was being implimented. Most people I served with got out after their four, because whats left isn't worth a pile of creamy goose shit. The military is not supposed to be a place where you are catered to. It's not supposed to be a place where you bitch about things that make you "uncomfortable" and expect to be listened to. It's not supposed to be filled with happy, shiny people, but it is. We've lowered the standards of acceptability for who enlistes, and shit like this, is the outcome.

Hell, you're not even allowed to cuss when dressing down subordinates. What bullshit is this?
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:35 AM       
Chojin, thanks for not defending yourself. Think of those jokes while you draw the death rattle in our situation.

Calling me a clone wont keep the truth from changing, GA.

A certain Muslim sect is the one threatening to destroy the land you type from, unless you are in the Middle East. Now, maybe you would make a great pawn in the New Muslim Order, but I wouldn't. Muslims and any other extremist group need to be screened very carefully before they enter the country and especially if they try to enter the military. I would rather be safe and hurt a couple feelings and be dead but sure that I didn't make anyone uncooommmfortable. And yes, Clintonian policies weakened the military and made them weaker.

And metioning the military, here is the kind of military I want and WE need:

I want a military that takes NO shit. Fuck with the U.S. and you might as well count the DAYS that you exist on this planet. I want the USMC to make foreign enemies shit their pants when they hear the acronym. I want the army to be the baddest fucking war machine that has walked. I want my navy and navy seals to be the baddest war machine that ever touched the water. I want my Air Force to be seen as the sulfer that rained down on Soddom and Ghamorah.

I could give a shit less if my military is nice, kind, understanding of other cultures. Bullshit. I want my military to be able to kill human beings and blow up things the best the military has ever seen. I want my military to be loyal to the U.S. of A. If anyone in the military gives comfort to enemy combatants, not civilians, then they are put in the brig or if they attack our troops, their brains become a permant part of the ground they stand on.

I want Tommy Franks and Donald Rumsfeld to come out and say that if you try to fuck with the U.S., your ass is non-existant on Planet Earth. I want generals to be like the first 15 minutes of the move Patton. In fact, I want a CRAZY mother fucker like Patton back in our military. A guy that knows one thing and knows it well: Destroy thy enemy. I want people like R. Lee Eremy that know WAR and DESTRUCTION, not feelings and culture! I am tired of people trying to make my country's line of protection a bunch of pussies.

I want our guys to play hard, kill hard, and go find some native women that dig U.S. GIs to fuck hard. My army should be death incarnate. I want the U.S. to be feared as the greatest fucking war machine that God could make men be. Simple as that.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 06:14 AM       
WOW! Look at the size of that vein!
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 09:22 AM       
Exactly. I want our military instructors to dehumanize our troops and make them become killing machines for our country. The troops that are staitioned in Okanowa, Hawaii and other countries, I want them to get so much off-base pussy that their balls deflate, because most sane women are attracted to men who stand up for what is right, have the conviction to carry through, and don't take no shit from whiny left-wing pinko scum. I want our troops to be seen as that. The base primal urge to destroy in a 21st Century body.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 09:23 AM       
I.....I.....I just don't.......WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?!?!?!?!
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 12:46 PM       
Put plainly, I believe that was what is known as "an insane rant". But I'm not sure. It's kind of hard to see through all that foam flying out of his mouth.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 01:36 PM       
I am willing to bet my life savings that if I told this to the vast majority of current and former armed servicemen and women, they would not see it as an "insane rant" but a "ray of truth".

But also, riddle me this: Is the way I said it an insane ranting, or is the content of what I ranted about insane? I am not clear on which part of what I said is insane?
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 01:45 PM       
Wow. That was lunacy that rivaled Khakha. In fact, I thought that was who it was for a second.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 01:48 PM       
Yet again you don't or cant argue with what I say.... that is all I'm asking you to do. Quit insulting me and go after my viewpoints. If you were as strong in belief in your convictions as you want to be precieved as being, then you would have no problem tearing down my wish for the military into a million pieces.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 02:06 PM       
"Look GA, he has a point. Unless you've put in your time, you don't really get what he's saying about Clinton ruining the service."

Well, I suppose by your criteria then that I get what he's saying. I think it's overstated. Whatever degredation of capability you are claiming is surely the result of a great many factors. To say that the current state of affairs is Bill's fault, or George's fault, or whoever comes next's fault is not very accurate in my opinion.

Vincent,
And what are those facts? I know you got a little carried away with your "kill em all" posts there, but you never did elaborate on your whole theory as to how the blame for the 101st incident should rest with Bill Clinton. Your whole thing about multi culturalism is a load of shit, quite frankly.

If we go to war in Korea, should we weed out the Asian American soldiers to make sure they don't act up? How about making sure there are no blacks if we have to fight in Africa? Maybe we should call up the KKK Reserves to fight our future wars so we don't have to worry about all that multi cultural bullshit.
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Old Mar 25th, 2003, 02:37 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Yet again you don't or cant argue with what I say.... that is all I'm asking you to do. Quit insulting me and go after my viewpoints. If you were as strong in belief in your convictions as you want to be precieved as being, then you would have no problem tearing down my wish for the military into a million pieces.
Your viewpoints insult you more than I ever could. You're certifiable.
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