Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 02:51 PM        Landmark gay ruling may put Bush in bind
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable

Landmark gay ruling may put Bush in bind

Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau
Sunday, June 15, 2003

©2003 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback

Washington -- The Supreme Court will decide within the next two weeks one of the most important cases in the history of civil rights for lesbian and gay Americans, reigniting a battle in the Republican Party that President Bush has delicately sought to avoid.

At issue in Lawrence and Garner vs. Texas is a state sodomy law that strikes the most fundamental chords within the GOP and threatens to split two party blocs pivotal to Bush's re-election.

The case involves two gay men, John Lawrence and Tyron Garner, who were arrested Sept. 17, 1998, in their home in Harris County, Texas, for having consensual sex after a neighbor falsely reported a "weapons disturbance." Police entered their home, discovered them "engaged in deviate sexual intercourse" and jailed them under the Texas homosexual conduct statute.

A decision for the plaintiffs would -- for the first time -- guarantee equal protection for gays and lesbians under the 14th Amendment, much as Brown vs. Board of Education did for African Americans nearly a half-century ago. Depending on its decision, the court could also guarantee for lesbians and gays a constitutional right to privacy.

Gay Republicans contend that not just equality but the decriminalization of their existence is at stake. Allied with Republican moderates who want to reach out to socially tolerant swing voters, they contend that the case concerns violations of core American values of privacy and equal protection.


WARY OF GAY MARRIAGE
On the other side are those who back the Texas law based on their religious and moral convictions. Members of these groups, which make up a big chunk of the conservative GOP base, warn that equal protection for sodomy is a giant step toward gay marriage -- still unacceptable to most Americans -- and that no politician, including Bush, a former Texas governor, will be allowed to abide it.

Republicans generally, and the White House specifically, largely avoid the topic for fear of alienating either side. But that tactic may not work when the Supreme Court issues its ruling either this Monday or next.

"The implications of this case are difficult to overestimate," said Patrick Guerriero, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay Republican group. "It would be a grave mistake for the White House to say in the year 2003 that laws should allow police to enter homes of consensual adults. . . . It's out of the mainstream, it's a politically losing point and would only cater to the fringe, radical-right elements of our party."

Ken Connor, president of the conservative Family Research Council, insisted that if the high court rules against Texas, Republicans will be expected to muster a vigorous defense of heterosexual marriage and traditional family values.

"Regardless of their desires to the contrary, Republicans will not be able to duck-and-cover on this issue," Connor said. "The debate will elevate to a white-hot temperature about what the role of marriage is in society."

If the court rules against Texas, Connor said, the precedent will open the door to gay marriage, destroy the foundation of heterosexual marriage and "all policy-makers at every level, from the White House to the statehouse, will be called upon to register their views."


'LIVE AND LET LIVE' HAS LIMITS
Whatever the high court decision, both sides predict it will further inflame the fight over Bush judicial nominees, particularly to potential Supreme Court vacancies, adding gay rights to an already explosive political mix.

"Most Americans have gotten to the point where they're willing to live and let live, but they're a long way from the point where they will accept gay marriage," said GOP pollster Whit Ayres, noting that former President Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, which forbids federal recognition of gay unions. "Given that fact, it's dangerous for any political party to do anything that sounds like they're endorsing gay marriage."

The administration has not weighed in on Lawrence and Garner, which is not unusual. The case has been overshadowed by an imminent University of Michigan affirmative action decision. But its potential to split the party was made clear by the firestorm over Sen. Rick Santorum's remarks in late April.

The Pennsylvania Republican and member of the Senate leadership said that a ruling favorable to gays would threaten the right of states to prohibit bigamy,

polygamy, incest and adultery, or "man on child, man on dog or whatever the case may be."

The comments sparked calls for Santorum's resignation but Bush defended him as "an inclusive man," and Republicans rallied to his defense.


TAKEN TO TASK
Mary Matalin, a former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney and a close ally of the Republican Unity Coalition, a group aiming to make the party more inclusive of gays, went so far as to rebuke the RUC's condemnation of Santorum,

shocking RUC officials and publicly embarrassing the group.

Matalin said the RUC was "parroting" Democrats, adding that calling Santorum a bigot would be like calling "the pope a bigot."

Social conservatives raised another storm when Republican National Committee Chairman Marc Racicot met in March with the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay lobbying group. Nearly a dozen top conservative leaders later held a stormy private meeting with Racicot in which they warned that Bush was endangering his re-election by "flirting" with gay activists.

"We urged party leaders not to put President Bush's re-election at risk in 2004 by shrinking from the cultural wars now," said Gary Bauer, a former presidential candidate.

Attorney General John Ashcroft came under fire from the other side recently when gay organizations said the Justice Department had banned a gay pride event.

"I think right now the GOP is wrestling with how much to accommodate homosexual activists within the party," said Robert Knight, director of the Culture and Family Institute, adding that social conservatives "will react strongly to an adverse decision" in Lawrence and Garner.

Gay Republicans and social conservatives alike predict the Bush administration will try to avoid comment on the high court's ruling, however it comes out.

"They are very disciplined in their message and in their priorities, and they would probably rather avoid getting mired in this issue, but I'm not certain they'll be able to avoid it," said a leading gay Republican close to the administration.


PLYING MIDDLE GROUND
So far, the administration has plied a middle course on gay issues generally.

"The president himself has been disciplined at not engaging in the marginalizing rhetoric of the radical right since he took office, and he has clearly not taken the steps backward that had been threatened by the left in the 2000 election," said Guerriero, the Log Cabin Republicans director.

Guerriero noted that Bush surprised the gay and lesbian community with his support for global AIDS funding, nondiscrimination against gays in federal employment and his appointment of Michael Guest as ambassador to Romania, a higher profile position than Clinton's controversial appointment of San Franciscan James Hormel as ambassador to Luxembourg.

Guerriero also cited Bush's support of lesbians and gay relationships in compensating victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks under the Mychael Judge Act.

But all agree the pending Supreme Court ruling and its legal aftermath will take the gay issue to a new level.


E-mail Carolyn Lochhead at clochhead@sfchronicle.com.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
ranxer ranxer is offline
Member
ranxer's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: U$
ranxer is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 04:03 PM       
wow, what a country. its pretty strange that 'flirting with gay rights activists' is more dangerous to bush's re-election than killing 3-5 thousand civilians. could it be so?
__________________
the neo-capitalists believe in privatizing profits and socializing losses
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 05:24 PM       
I RECKON SO, AFTER ALL, DEM FAGS IS THE SERVANTS OF THE DEVIL
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
Now with less sodium!
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Immortal Goat is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:10 PM       
I hate Texas. It is one of the most backwards states I can think of at the moment. Hell, Bush came from there, so how great a state could it be? But that is neither here, nor there.

Should gay people have the right to be protected under the 14th ammendment? YES! Would I ever want to be gay? NO! Just because they butt-fuck doesn't mean they aren't human. They were just born wierd. They have an extra chromosome or something. That does NOT make them immoral, hellbound, or whatever the hell you want to make them out to be.

In case you missed one of my threads from the past week, I will reiterate my position on stuff like this.

DISCRIMINATION IS WRONG! PERIOD!!
__________________
I like snow. If winter's going to be cold anyway, at least have it be fun to look at. Probably why I was with my ex for so long...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
The_voice_of_reason The_voice_of_reason is offline
Senior Member
The_voice_of_reason's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: yes
The_voice_of_reason is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:23 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Goat
Just because they butt-fuck doesn't mean they aren't human. They were just born wierd. They have an extra chromosome or something.
I know your were being a smart ass but this brings up a good question "Why are people gay?" I mean it can't be genetic How would the genes get passed on?
__________________
I like to masturbate
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:29 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason
I mean it can't be genetic How would the genes get passed on?
Actually, it can. Allow me to explain:
Lets say that gene H is the dominant straight gene, and gene h is the recessive gay gene. Although there are possibly multiple genes accounting for homosexuality and bisexuality, I'm simplifiying it for the sake of clarity.
Now lets suppose that we have a person who has the Hh combination. The dominant H gene would cancel out the recessive h gene, making the person heterosexual. Now lets suppose that the Hh individual mates with a person who also has the Hh combination. We are left with four possibilities: HH (heterosexual) two Hhs (heterosexuals who carry the h gene but are not gay because the gene is canceled by the H.), and the hh individual, who has two reccessive genes for homosexuality and thus is homosexual.
Hh+Hh=HH, Hh, Hh, or hh.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Raven Raven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Raven is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:35 PM       
"I know your were being a smart ass but this brings up a good question "Why are people gay?" I mean it can't be genetic How would the genes get passed on?"

How genes always get passed on. It could theoritically be possible for it to be genetic. A gene that creates a chemical defect to cause attraction to the pheromones of the same sex. Most likely it is enviromental. Some that caused the same chemical defect in the enviroment, or caused a simple attraction to those of the same sex.
__________________
If one sacrifices Freedom for Security, one has lost both.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Raven Raven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Raven is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:38 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason
I mean it can't be genetic How would the genes get passed on?
Actually, it can. Allow me to explain:
Lets say that gene H is the dominant straight gene, and gene h is the recessive gay gene. Although there are possibly multiple genes accounting for homosexuality and bisexuality, I'm simplifiying it for the sake of clarity.
Now lets suppose that we have a person who has the Hh combination. The dominant H gene would cancel out the recessive h gene, making the person heterosexual. Now lets suppose that the Hh individual mates with a person who also has the Hh combination. We are left with four possibilities: HH (heterosexual) two Hhs (heterosexuals who carry the h gene but are not gay because the gene is canceled by the H.), and the hh individual, who has two reccessive genes for homosexuality and thus is homosexual.
Hh+Hh=HH, Hh, Hh, or hh.
But the genes would of course have to affect something physical in order to produce the homosexuality trait. I.e. pheromone reaction.
__________________
If one sacrifices Freedom for Security, one has lost both.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Jun 16th, 2003, 11:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven

But the genes would of course have to affect something physical in order to produce the homosexuality trait. I.e. pheromone reaction.
Yes of course. How else would work?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Ooner Ooner is offline
Member
Ooner's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Ooner is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:06 AM       
I'm passing through texas in a couple months. I hope it passes so I can assfuck along the way.

Or not, so I can assfuck in protest.

Oh, and even gay people are capable of making babies with girls, if they wanna. Tada, more passed genes!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
The_voice_of_reason The_voice_of_reason is offline
Senior Member
The_voice_of_reason's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: yes
The_voice_of_reason is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:33 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Actually, it can. Allow me to explain:
Lets say that gene H is the dominant straight gene, and gene h is the recessive gay gene. Although there are possibly multiple genes accounting for homosexuality and bisexuality, I'm simplifiying it for the sake of clarity.
Now lets suppose that we have a person who has the Hh combination. The dominant H gene would cancel out the recessive h gene, making the person heterosexual. Now lets suppose that the Hh individual mates with a person who also has the Hh combination. We are left with four possibilities: HH (heterosexual) two Hhs (heterosexuals who carry the h gene but are not gay because the gene is canceled by the H.), and the hh individual, who has two reccessive genes for homosexuality and thus is homosexual.
Hh+Hh=HH, Hh, Hh, or hh.


My knowledge of genetics is a bit rusty (I haven't had a biology class in four years) but even if it was a recessive gene it would eventualy be wiped out or at least decrease in instance. My point was that it isn't a genetic thing.
__________________
I like to masturbate
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Burned In Effigy Burned In Effigy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Burned In Effigy is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:37 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooner
I'm passing through texas in a couple months. I hope it passes so I can assfuck along the way.

Or not, so I can assfuck in protest.

Oh, and even gay people are capable of making babies with girls, if they wanna. Tada, more passed genes!

Are you the flamboyant type?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Raven Raven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Raven is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:40 AM       
"My knowledge of genetics is a bit rusty (I haven't had a biology class in four years) but even if it was a recessive gene it would eventualy be wiped out or at least decrease in instance. My point was that it isn't a genetic thing."

Not for humans. Since Humans are allowed to breed even with recessive genes that would prevent them from doing so. And there is no proof that it is or is not a genetic thing. Its all really just speculation as to what causes it.
__________________
If one sacrifices Freedom for Security, one has lost both.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
AChimp AChimp is offline
Resident Chimp
AChimp's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Jungles of Borneo
AChimp is probably a real personAChimp is probably a real person
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:44 AM       
I seem to recall reading some stuff about a "gay gene," except having it only increases the probability that you might be gay. There's a whole bunch of social and psychological reasons behind it as well, from what I've read.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Burned In Effigy Burned In Effigy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Burned In Effigy is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:45 AM       
This might sound mean, but being gay could be simply being defective. With that said, that doesn't mean they should be treated any different than the "norm".
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Raven Raven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Raven is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:48 AM       
Of course. A "gay" gene would only cause you to react to same sex pheromones in the way most would react to opposite sex pheromones, this is simple a hypothesis don't assume it as fact. As such human beings generally cover up pheromones with deoderants and such. Thus the pheromones would have no effect or a lessened effect. Thus requiring a psycological mindset towards such activities.
__________________
If one sacrifices Freedom for Security, one has lost both.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Preechr Preechr is offline
=======
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NA
Preechr is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:11 AM       
The funny part about this thing is that to accept that GAY might be, in fact, genetic would be to realize that the best thing to do, if one's goal were to ERADICATE gay, would be to simply let it eliminate itself through natural selection. As you guys have already pointed out, if being gay depended upon reproduction, gay itself would have died out long ago.

The obvious contradiction here being that the religious right is the group that supports THEIR loving, caring, moral God that hates gays, but Her followers hating on gays is what societally forces the gays to hide their proclivity and unwillingly procreate "unnaturally" furthering the imposition of gay upon moral, God-fearing society.

Either that, or gays are created through some non-genetic, supernatural phenomenon designed to eternally aggravate moral folk...

Long story short, I chalk the whole controversy up to God likes to fuck with people.
__________________
mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Ooner Ooner is offline
Member
Ooner's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Ooner is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 06:06 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned In Effigy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooner
I'm passing through texas in a couple months. I hope it passes so I can assfuck along the way.

Or not, so I can assfuck in protest.

Oh, and even gay people are capable of making babies with girls, if they wanna. Tada, more passed genes!

Are you the flamboyant type?
I couldn't snap my fingers, or call someone "girlfriend", or pick out a matching outfit, or dance, or decorate to save my life.

Or maybe I'm one of those flaming faggots who just thinks they're butch. .. Oh god, I hope I'm not one of those flaming faggots who think they're butch.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Ooner Ooner is offline
Member
Ooner's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Ooner is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 06:11 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned In Effigy
This might sound mean, but being gay could be simply being defective. With that said, that doesn't mean they should be treated any different than the "norm".
I wouldn't say there's such a thing as "defective" when it comes to people unless the supposed flaw makes an obvious difference to one's ability to live and reproduce successfully. Being gay doesn't really qualify, as it's the same as being straight if you disregard the social consequences. Gay people can still do everything straight people can, work the same jobs, be as successful, reproduce as easily...

So no, not defective. Still fully functional as people, just with minor different characteristics.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Ooner Ooner is offline
Member
Ooner's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Ooner is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 06:22 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason
My knowledge of genetics is a bit rusty (I haven't had a biology class in four years) but even if it was a recessive gene it would eventualy be wiped out or at least decrease in instance. My point was that it isn't a genetic thing.
Recessive genes don't eventually fade away. For example, the following are all recessive traits that still go strong:

Blue, Green or Hazel Eyes
Color Blindness
Blonde or Red Hair

...

Homosexuality?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Raven Raven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Raven is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 06:36 AM       
It is dependant upon the type of recessive gene. If it would in fact prevent or hinder the chance of reproduction in some form, than the probability of the gene disappearing or simply diminishing is fastly increased. But that is within the realms of Darwin and natural selection.
__________________
If one sacrifices Freedom for Security, one has lost both.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 10:54 AM       
See? I told you. Reasonable discussions.

Has anyone mentioned Gay animals? I mean scientiffically, not just for the purposes of making folks giggle. I know there are gay geese and gay chimpanzees.

Would one supppose this is genetic, or some sort of animal 'lifestyle choice'?

And are Gay geese allowed to assfuck in texas?

And what can we say about a state that actively enforces it's sodomy laws? I'm reminded of the Florida (was it Florida?) cops who arrested aul 'pee-wee' reubens for two acts of public masturbation, which means they watched him the first time and then hung around hoping to watch again. What is it with states governed by Bushes?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
VinceZeb is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:04 AM       
The Texas sodomy case is wrong. But lets face facts here, being gay is not genetic. Now, I know what I am going to say is going to have everyone going "WHERE YOUR SORCES, VINTHH!" but scientist have debunked the "born gay" myth. And it isn't just "religious" scientist either. There have been a few atheist ones as well that say it is bunk science.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:09 AM       
"scientist have debunked the "born gay" myth"
Vinth Clambake

Listen, I don't want to bother you, I know your really, really busy and all, and I hope this doesn't scare you away, but you wouldn't care to, you know, back that up at all? I'd find your sources for you, but with so many of the brighter Newsfilter folks who've showed up to see where I came from I just don't have the time to do your oleg work for you.

Oh, geeze. Oh, come on, Vinth. Stop. Stop crying. I didn't mean to scare you. Never mind, never mind, I'm sure your right. It was 'debunked'. Things that haven't been proven or claimed to be proven one way or another get 'debunked' all the time. Here, have a hanky.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:09 AM        Gay
Then explain to me why I have been attracted to women longer than men? It certainly wasn't a learned behavior.
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:16 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.