Is God dead?

[Immortal Goat]

I never thought myself to be a very Godfearing man. I don't follow any real religion to speak of, just my own morals and some hope in an afterlife, but this election has made me see the true ugliness that the American People as a whole posess.

This war was won through bigotry, and nothing else. Religious zealots who believe that war is ok so long as gay people cannot marry. People who say that abortion is wrong, but killing innocent children in Iraq is ok, because they are Heathens. Bigots who believe that marriage needs protected from "godless sinful deviants" while that very institution is being corroded from the inside by people like Britney Spears, J-Lo, and every station that has aired a "Bachelor" style show.

The thing that gets me is that all this hatred and violence is being done by people who believe they are doing God's work. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Jesus tell you guys to "Love one another", and "Let he who is among you who is without sin cast the first stone"? I guess stones are different than bombs, huh?

Yes, I know that this is not the first time in history when bigotry has caused massive global problems, but I would have thought that in 2004, we could all get over our differences and work together. Call me crazy, but I really don't think that it is a bad idea to have blacks, whites, straights, gays, and any other minority working together. That is the only way we will ever achieve our goals.

God may not be dead, but it IS in a coma. Wake up god, if you are there, we need you now more than ever. So much is at stake.

[KidneyStone]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

Call me crazy, but I really don't think that it is a bad idea to have blacks, whites, straights, gays, and any other minority working together.

This involves compromise...and who wants to compromise

[Sethomas]

I always liked the Book of Job. God's not dead, or even less attentitive. He's just having fun and proving a point. I'm reading a book right now about miracles in the medieval world. Back then, God's hand in daily affairs was an a priori, at least in the common mind. Were people happier with their lives back then? Fuck no. And of course, when people made assertions of their right to pleasure and dissent, God vanished. So, it's pretty pointless to throw out claims that God is here or gone or on sabbatical or whatever. Life was ingeniously engineered to be an awful crock of shit. Call it Original Sin, call it whatever. If you have faith, at least you can hold onto the pretension that you'll be rewarded ultimately for putting up with it all.

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

This war was won through bigotry, and nothing else. Religious zealots who believe that war is ok so long as gay people cannot marry. People who say that abortion is wrong, but killing innocent children in Iraq is ok, because they are Heathens. Bigots who believe that marriage needs protected from "godless sinful deviants" while that very institution is being corroded from the inside by people like Britney Spears, J-Lo, and every station that has aired a "Bachelor" style show.

I never thought I'd come to the aid of Christian conservatives.. but here goes.

I think you're really overgeneralizing, and it's unfair. Not everyone who opposed gay marriage is a homophobe -- some are traditionalists, and many simply believe -- for religious reasons -- that marriage was an institution created solely for the union of a man and a woman. These people usually place a high social value on marriage and family life, and they are, as such, riled whenever radical changes are instituted and/or celebrated in these arenas.

I don't deny that many are simply bigots, but once again, you were addressing "the American People as a whole."

Also, I don't know of anyone who has suggested that it's ok to kill innocent Muslim children. Maybe it's just because I don't live in a Red State.

I know you're just venting right now, but try to keep a cool head and avoid thinking that people who disagree with you are automatically malevolent or stupid. These kinds of columns are popping up all over the place now, and it isn't helping the cause at all.

[Ant10708]

Exactly no one will be convinced to see it your way if all you do is call them an idiot.

[Big Papa Goat]

Americans aren't being very nice lately, so clearly God has either died, or forsaken the world. Because Americans have problems.
And when did bigotry take over christianity?

[sadie]

http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=10622

Originally Posted by mburbank's david

With all great respect, I believe that God does play dice. And I think I know who God’s dice are.

[Dole]

God's not dead, but he has phoned in sick.

[Revolver05]

The great achillies heel of men has always been; when things go wrong, to start looking for god. To call out in despair over his/her/it's absence in the world at the time. What we really need to do is look past the state of god in question, "is he dead, alive, on vacation?", and fix our own problems.
I am not a "christian" per se. I grew up in a protestant (presbytarian), midwestern household, and was taught the bible, and the words of scripture. I never really took hold to anything other than the simple things Jesus taught. Things like turn the other cheek, and loving one's neighbor. Cheesy as all this sounds, it is the best way to live, christian or non christian. Fuck religion, it's a crutch for our fear of an end that is inevitable to come. We create heaven so we wont have to really die, but now it's time to put our dicks on the table and say it: our problems are just that, our problems, and even if there is a god, he's not going to come down with his middle finger and smite the bigoted, and overzealous. We have to deal with ourselves.

[Spectre X]

I love you, revolver.

[Revolver05]

Gracias good sir

[Revolver05]

People keep on complaining that no one around them is living a good life, being a nice person, bringing over pies once a week, being bigoted, and especially not living like Jesus taught. Then they go on to say that everybody should live like Jesus taught, but since they arent, we need some omniscient diety's intervention to make everyone live like the messiah.
Dont be so fucking stupid. Drag your own ass out of the dirt. God will not help you. Drag someone else with you, for God will not help them. It's about damn time we take our searching eyes off of the heavens, and start looking at each other. I dislike Bush to no end, but I'm not just going to sit in my living room crying about God's deceased nature, I'm going to start working on the Dem's next campaign, and prepare for the problems ahead. Be prepared, the next four years will not be pretty, but I'm not going to wail about the great spirit's absence.

[Ant10708]

Originally Posted by Big Papa Goat

And when did bigotry take over christianity?

Where have you been? The Crusades was all about bigotry.


Damn Pat Robertson and all these crazy Christians make everyone who voted Bush or who is Christian(Catholics) look like morons for beign associated.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Brandon

I think you're really overgeneralizing, and it's unfair. Not everyone who opposed gay marriage is a homophobe -- some are traditionalists, and many simply believe -- for religious reasons -- that marriage was an institution created solely for the union of a man and a woman. These people usually place a high social value on marriage and family life, and they are, as such, riled whenever radical changes are instituted and/or celebrated in these arenas.

Do you think that a lot of state initiatives on legalizing gay marriage would have passed had they used the term "civic union" rather than "marriage". In other words, is semantics a sticking point with some fundamentalists?

And, for the Goat ... a one, anda two anda three:

Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore
© John Prine

While digesting Reader's Digest
In the back of a dirty book store,
A plastic flag, with gum on the back,
Fell out on the floor.
Well, I picked it up and I ran outside
Slapped it on my window shield,
And if I could see old Betsy Ross
I'd tell her how good I feel.

Chorus:
But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
They're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.

Well, I went to the bank this morning
And the cashier he said to me,
"If you join the Christmas club
We'll give you ten of them flags for free."
Well, I didn't mess around a bit
I took him up on what he said.
And I stuck them stickers all over my car
And one on my wife's forehead.

Repeat Chorus:

Well, I got my window shield so filled
With flags I couldn't see.
So, I ran the car upside a curb
And right into a tree.
By the time they got a doctor down
I was already dead.
And I'll never understand why the man
Standing in the Pearly Gates said...

"But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
We're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more."

[sadie]

Originally Posted by kellychaos

In other words, is semantics a sticking point with some fundamentalists?

they're called fundamentalists mostly due to semantics, right? they believe that the bible is the literal word of god.

[Helm]

Wake up god, if you are there, we need you now more than ever. So much is at stake.

Why are you talking to god for? Asking him to help you because things got tough? There's no bigger intellectual cop-out than that. Even if god exists, he doesn't deserve anyone's prayers. God has denied the living the moment he gave us a choice to stray from his supposed sacred morality. The price of your free will is that you stand on your own two feet and cope with the world. There's nothing that disgusts me more than what you're doing.

[FartinMowler]

Religous people make me laugh :/ I really wish people would just concentrate on being good.

[Immortal Goat]

I wasn't really praying, just trying to make a point. I do not pray. My god is not the same as the Christian God. I was speaking metaphorically. God has died in the minds of those who profess "His" will the loudest. Those people need "awakened" to the reality of what they are doing. They are destroying this country and all it stands for. Hence "If you are there, wake up."

[Brandon]

Do you think that a lot of state initiatives on legalizing gay marriage would have passed had they used the term "civic union" rather than "marriage". In other words, is semantics a sticking point with some fundamentalists?

First of all, not everyone who opposes gay marriage is a fundamentalist.

And, to be honest, I do think semantics is a sticking point. People seem to be much more tolerant of the idea of "civil unions," but feel defining "marriage" as anything other than one man and one woman will somehow cheapen the institution.

Once again, I'm not denying that homophobia was a motivator for many -- I just feel it's inappropriate to assume that everyone who opposed gay marriage is some kind of bigot.

[Helm]

Your country doesn't stand for anything.

[Strapping Young Lad]

if God were to come down from his cloud, take a look around, and voice his opinion, does anyone think he'd really approve of the steps George Bush has taken?

Hell is a lie. If God were a loving God, he wouldn't punish his creations by condemning them to a flaming inferno for all eternity, no matter what they were responsible for in "this life." That includes Hitler, Genghis Khan, and Napolean.

Off the record, though. I don't believe there's a God. I do believe, however, that there are many many unseen forces at work. And that time is a perception, not a law.

[Immortal Goat]

Originally Posted by Helm

Your country doesn't stand for anything.

The sad thing is that right now, you are right. It USED to stand for something, but not anymore. I am not saying that our country was the only country in the world with the freedoms we had, but that we were one of a few. We no longer are. The USA used to stand for freedom ad equality in a world where many countries didn't. We accepted immigrants from all over. Not any longer. Due to bigotry and fear, we have closed our borders, and worse, made other countries hate us so much that people don't want to come here anyway.

[Mr. Oysterhead]

And plenty want out.

[sadie]

the us is the world's spoiled brat.

[kahljorn]

The US wants Alexander the great or some other -bc ruler for president. Stupid cunts.