Gays are immoral, says top Christian

[Pharaoh]

It's interesting that you all consider it to be hate speech, because I somehow made a slight error. Although it shouldn't make any difference, unless you're only against Christian 'hate speech'. He was actually a Muslim leader, who represents moderate Muslims and mainstream Islamic teachings.


'HOMOSEXUALITY is immoral and spreads disease, and civil partnerships are damaging to society, according to Britain’s most senior Muslim leader.

Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the head of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that same-sex relationships risked damaging the foundations of society, and scientific evidence showed that homosexuality carried high health risks.

His comments were condemned last night by gay rights groups and MPs from the three main political parties, who said that Sir Iqbal was swimming against the tide of public opinion.

Speaking about civil partnerships, the first of which took place in Britain last month, Sir Iqbal said: “It does not augur well in building the very foundations of society: stability, family relationships. And it is something we would certainly not in any form encourage the community to be involved in.”

Asked on the BBC Radio 4 PM programme if homosexuality was harmful to society, he replied: “Certainly it is a practice that in terms of health, in terms of the moral issues that comes along in a society, it is. It is not acceptable.

“Each of our faiths tells us that it is harmful and, I think, if you look into the scientific evidence that has been available in terms of the forms of various illnesses and diseases that are there, surely it points out that where homosexuality is practised there is a greater concern in that area.” '
Link here


'Islam and homosexuals

Sir, In light of the bizarre news that the Metropolitan Police is to “investigate” comments about homosexuality made by Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, (report, Jan 12) we, the undersigned, Imams and representatives of various British Muslim organisations, affirm that Sir Iqbal’s views faithfully reflected mainstream Islamic teachings.

The Koran and, we believe, the Bible, together with all the Prophets of God, up to and including Muhammad (peace be upon them all), taught that marriage should be between man and woman, not between people of the same sex. The practice of homosexuality is regarded as being sinful in Islam.

We are deeply concerned about the breakdown of basic family values and the undermining of the key institution of marriage in Britain today. All Britons, whether they are in favour of homosexuality or not, should be allowed to freely express their views in an atmosphere free of intimidation or bullying. We cannot claim to be a truly free and open society while we are trying to silence dissenting views.


HABIBUR RAHMAN
President, Islamic Forum
Europe


ABDUL HAMEED QURESHI
Lancashire Council of Mosques


MAWLANA ABDUL HADI UMRI,
Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith, Birmingham


MAWLANA RASHID RABBANI,
Jamiat-e-Ulama, Bradford


MAWLANA MUHAMMAD ADAM,
Bolton Council of Mosques


ABDUL KARIM GHEEWALA
Federation of Muslim Organisations, Leicestershire


MAWLANA BOSTAN QADRI,
Confederation of Sunni Mosques, Birmingham

IMA ABDUL QADIR BARKATULLAH
North Finchley Mosque, London

DR SUHAIB HASAN,
Islamic Shariah Council

MR ZAHIR BIRAWI,
Grand Mosque, Leeds

IMAM DR ABDUL JALIL SAJID,
Council of Mosques, London and Southern Counties

DR MUNIR AHMED,
Islamic Society of Britain

MR AHMED SHEIKH,
Muslim Association of Britain

MR IDRIS MEARS,
Association of Muslim Schools

DR ABDUL FATTAH SAEED,
Al Muntada al Islami, London

DR YUNES TEINAZ,
Regent's Park Mosque, London

DR HAFIZ AL-KARMI,
Mayfair Islamic Centre, London

MR ISMAIL PATEL,
Friends of al-Aqsa

DR MANAZIR AHSAN,
Islamic Foundation, Leicester

DR AHMAD HASAN,
World Federation of Khoja Shia Ithnasheri Muslim Community

MR MUNAWWAR RATTANSI,
Council of European Jamaats

MR YOUSUF BHAILOK,
Former Secretary-General, The Muslim Council of Britain'
Link here

[Immortal Goat]

Bullshit you made a mistake. You wanted to see if our opinion wouild change if we knew it was a Muslim's opinion, not a Christian's. Well, I, for one, do not think any differently. It is his right to say this stuff, as it is a Christian's right, but to do so is publically hateful and a big mistake, due to the backlash it can create.

I didn't fall for the bait. So there.

[Chojin]

Oh well if an arab says it's okay to hate queers I guess that's a whole different ballgame!

[Cosmo Electrolux]

yeah, shit like that keeps me up at night......

[ziggytrix]

Yeah, it's still hate speech, but let's make one thing perfectly clear. The world is not black and white, there are many shades of gray.

This particular example of mild hate speech, while certainly unacceptable in a civil society, is nowhere near as bad as anything at the Westboro Baptist website.

[AChimp]

I think it's really gay that you waste time trying to "trick" people on a message board. It's hate speech regardless of the religion.

[Emu]

Oh shit! My worldview! Crumbling...! What have I done!

It's hate speech no matter who says it. It just makes me think less of you for being a dishonest dumbfuck.

[Pharaoh]

So, if Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the voice of moderate Muslims, publicly airs his views on homosexuality, then it's hate speech even though he faithfully reflects mainstream Islamic teachings?
That means mainstream Islamic teachings can't legally be taught here as it would be hate speech and anyone doing so could be arrested.

[Emu]

Yes, it's hate speech. What do you mean by 'mainstream,' exactly? The views of the people who practice the religion or the views of the heads of the religion? Because I was under the impression that 'mainstream' was defined as the beliefs in general of the people who practice it. And I don't believe such views are mainstream among British Muslims.

[Chojin]

HIS PLAN COMES FULL-CIRCLE!

How are Muslims any more intolerant of gays than Christians?

[Chojin]

SexyWhitePower: oh good fucking show man, way to stick the liberals with the it of their to being. never saw it coming.
PharoahDaddy2000: You know it, man. I am so glad you had that idea, this was the best laugh I've had in years.
SexyWhitePower: oh don't be modesty to accomplishments of yours! i just set it up, you were the executor to knocking of downs!
PharoahDaddy2000: Ha ha, victory is ours together, my friend. How's Sandy doing these days?
SexyWhitePower: steve's fine
PharoahDaddy2000: I didn't say-
SexyWhitePower has signed off.

[Pharaoh]

The Muslim Council of Britain is officially the moderate face of Islam, and the MCB's secretary general, Iqbal Sacranie, has recently been knighted. Anytime there's an Islamist terrorist atrocity affecting Britain they pop up to give the moderate response of mainstream Muslims, the majority of Muslims. Maybe their views are out of touch with younger Muslims, who tend to be either more liberal or much more fundamentalist, but they're supposed to reflect the majority's views.

The Church of England is split on homosexual bishops and same-sex marriages here but it's overall more tolerant of gays and it allows clergy to be gay.

My point, though, is that Christianity gets all the criticism from liberals and Islam is left in peace, even though Islam is much less tolerant. Islam is the main danger to liberal societies and it's about time liberals admitted that.

[glowbelly]

BIGOTS ARE THE PROBLEM YOU STUPID FUCK

like you.

good god how hard is that for you to understand? i don't give a flying freaky fuck what religion you practice. it doesn't matter! you're a bigot! nothing you say really matters

ESPECIALLY ABOUT RELIGION

ya know why?

because you're a BIGOT.

and BIGOT'S ARE DUMB.

there's some of your own logic for you.

maybe now you'll understand.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

Islam is the main danger to liberal societies and it's about time liberals admitted that.

ok guys, if everybody admits this, Pharoah might go away.

[Chojin]

Christianity is an equally big 'danger' to acceptance. But what you seem to misunderstand is that the entire point of a liberal society is acceptance, and therefore it isn't about eliminating threats.

Intolerance isn't a religious issue, mongo. Christians have done, are doing, and will do far worse things to gay people than Muslims. Apparently they're trying to catch up. Fantastic, they still aren't 1/10th as bad at being a human as you.

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

The Church of England... allows clergy to be gay.

How big of them. God has been doing that for quite a while now.

[Dole]

'HOMOSEXUALITY is immoral and spreads disease, and civil partnerships are damaging to society, according to Britain’s most senior Christian leader.

He also said that same-sex relationships risked damaging the foundations of society, and scientific evidence showed that homosexuality carried high health risks.

His comments were condemned last night by gay rights groups and MPs from the three main political parties, who said that he was swimming against the tide of public opinion.

Speaking about civil partnerships, the first of which took place in Britain last month, he said: “It does not augur well in building the very foundations of society: stability, family relationships. And it is something we would certainly not in any form encourage the community to be involved in.”

Asked on the BBC Radio 4 PM programme if homosexuality was harmful to society, he replied: “Certainly it is a practice that in terms of health, in terms of the moral issues that comes along in a society, it is. It is not acceptable.

“Each of our faiths tells us that it is harmful and, I think, if you look into the scientific evidence that has been available in terms of the forms of various illnesses and diseases that are there, surely it points out that where homosexuality is practised there is a greater concern in that area.”

I think it's wrong to censor him, whatever happened to free speech?

A member of the Muslim Council said something pretty damn similar on R4 a couple of weeks ago, the police investigated and did not press any charges, and Peter Tatchell (of OUTrage)was on R4 the next day defending the bloke's right to say it. So free speech is safe and well, thanks.

[Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Preechr

How big of them. God has been doing that for quite a while now.

You find a gay imam and you might have a point. The last one who tried, in Turkey, was threatened with death.
Link here

[Emu]

Dole:

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

It's interesting that you all consider it to be hate speech, because I somehow made a slight error. Although it shouldn't make any difference, unless you're only against Christian 'hate speech'. He was actually a Muslim leader, who represents moderate Muslims and mainstream Islamic teachings.

[Pharaoh]

[quote="Dole"]

A member of the Muslim Council said something pretty damn similar on R4 a couple of weeks ago, the police investigated and did not press any charges, and Peter Tatchell (of OUTrage)was on R4 the next day defending the bloke's right to say it. So free speech is safe and well, thanks.

Yeah, you're sharp aren't you? Look at the top of this page, pothead.

Do you mean the same Peter Tatchell who said this about it?


MUSLIM LEADER URGED: DROP HOMOPHOBIA

Gay group calls for solidarity against intolerance

London – 4 January 2006

“It is sad to see the leader of the Muslim community attacking the gay community,” said Peter Tatchell of the gay human rights group OutRage!.

“We share a parallel experience of prejudice and discrimination. Victimisation of Muslim people is wrong, and so too is the victimisation of gay people. Instead of sowing division and promoting homophobia, the Muslim Council of Britain should be working with gay organisations to challenge the twin evils of homophobia and Islamophobia.”

Mr Tatchell was responding to anti-gay comments made by the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain on BBC Radio 4's PM Programme, yesterday, 3 January 2006.

Sir Iqbal told the programme that homosexuality is “harmful” and “not acceptable.” He suggested it was immoral and spread disease. Implying that being gay is a sickness, he said homosexuality is linked to “other illnesses and diseases.”

Mr Tatchell expressed concern that the MCB had long campaigned in support of discrimination against lesbians and gay men:

“On every recent gay human rights issue, the MCB has campaigned in favour of discrimination. It opposed an equal age of consent, partnership rights for same-sex couples and the outlawing of homophobic discrimination in the workplace. The MCB also backed the retention of Section 28 and a ban on gay couples fostering or adopting children.”

Resorting to inflammatory language barely distinguishable from the homophobic tirades of the BNP, news releases on the MCB website condemn same-sex relationships as “offensive”, “immoral” and “repugnant”.

“While demanding rights for Muslims, the MCB wants to deny rights to lesbian and gay people – both Muslim and non-Muslim. It sees no double standard or inconsistency in its selective approach to human rights,” added Mr Tatchell.

“OutRage! has written to Sir Iqbal Sacranie several times, urging dialogue to explore our common interest in defending the human rights of both our communities. We suggested working together to eradicate the twin hatreds of Islamophobia and homophobia. Sir Iqbal never replied to our letters.

“OutRage! recognises the shared humanity of all people everywhere. We endorse the MCB's concern about the abuse of Muslims in Palestine , Bosnia , Chechnya , Iraq and in Britain . But our solidarity with Muslims has been repaid with only hostility and prejudice from the MCB.

“Tolerance is a two-way street. How can the MCB expect to secure respect for Muslims when it shows such obvious disrespect to other people because of their sexual orientation?” queried Mr Tatchell.

[Pharaoh]

And, by the way, what's happened to freedom of speech on this forum?
The title of this topic has mysteriously changed, obviously because I'm not a leftie, as there was nothing offensive about it.

And I'm supposed to be the one who's a bigot, intolerant of any opinions differing from his own? Look at yourselves.

[Summourn]

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

And I don't think you could call him a bigot when so many of his faith agree with him, they can't all be bigots can they?

You'd be surprised.

[ziggytrix]

It's called FREE SPEECH you idiot. You can say someone is WRONG without saying they don't have a right to say wrong things!

Good grief!

[Emu]

You paste that aritcle like he said something bad. Jesus, do you even read what you post?

[Preechr]

I wasn't making a comparison, just a point in jest.

You're trying to say that Christians are a little more accepting of gaiety than are Muslims, in some official sense. The only real difference is that Christianity is making some half-assed efforts toward appearing to be in the beginning processes of acceptance... but only of heterosexual gays and even then only on Tuesdays.

It's sort of like me trying to figure out whether Chojin or Max Burbank respects you more.

You also seem to be trying to make a larger point about the difference in public expectation for the two religious belief systems. Riveting stuff, man. Shocking. We expect a bit more from Christianity than we do Islam. You may be on to something here.

Wait a minnit... I forgot all about freedom of religion... Do you have that in your country? Personally, I can respect any religious belief as long as it is honest belief and practiced faithfully. Much of modern Christian teaching, especially treatment of gays, does not square with the teachings of Jesus. Muslim teaching, contrarily, does reflect the teachings of Muhammed, at least in this instance.

Funny how religions can differ like that.