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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 01:26 PM       
What painting did you guys take?
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 01:56 PM       
The US realized that they were beat and started the peace negotiations. The idea that the war of 1812 was a second revolution for Americans is a fallacy. The only thing the US got out of it was a really big flag and a nifty song. That and Canada was a part of the British empire so of course it was occupied by British troops. We invaded them, not the other way around.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 02:25 PM       
A fallacy? It started because Britain was getting their asses handed to them in the Napoleonic Wars and thought they could hurt France financially and benefit themselves by setting up a naval blockade to halt American and French trading. They tried to force us to trade only with them much like they did before the Revolutionary war with the Navigation Acts but this time with their Navy as opposed to laws. Not to mention they were basically kidnapping our sailors and forcing them into their Navy. America declared war on Britain because they basically refused to acknowledge our sovereignty. Hence why it is referred to as the 2nd revolution.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 07:59 PM       
Yeah, and we got our asses handed to us.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 09:21 PM       
America failed to achieve it's military objectives, Britain/Canada succeded in achieving theirs.

It's like thinking the Vietnam war was a draw because the Viet Cong never captured the White House.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 10:25 PM       
Um... What fucking objectives are you talking about? As far as I know the British blockade ended and they stopped kidnapping our sailors. Beyond that our objective was to defend ourselves and we did. Boston remained ours. So did New Orleans. America still flies Old Glory. Yeah we sure got our asses handed to us.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 11:26 PM       
The British blockade ended because Napoleon was finally defeated and they no longer needed it. They stopped kidnapping our sailors for the same reason. The British trashed Washington D.C., the Battle of New Orleans took place after the peace treaty had been signed, etc, etc. The United States is the only country where it's taught that the US won the War of 1812. For some reason I don't think that the rest of the world is wrong, especially when you actually read about the war.
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Old Sep 16th, 2009, 11:41 PM       
The capture and control of Canada was Americas prime objective, the defense of it was the British/Canadian one. Right?

Also, this "still flying old glory!" is the exact reason I mentioned the Vietnam example. Just because the enemy doesn't raze your cities and annihilate your people doesn't mean you don't lose.

Anyway, I'm not going to pretend I know all about this war; my understanding of it was what I have already said, and that it ended with a peace treaty where everybody got their land back and the US was allowed to fish in some river.

Back to Health Care!

What AChimp said about wait times being the major problem is true here too. In fact it's going to be true to any public health system running at the moment I'd wager. Relying on the government to provide those MRI machines can be frustrating, but having one overworked machine is better than none for most people, and I would be much more frustrated knowing I had no security should some sort of accident befall me. I honestly have trust in the Australian health system to look after me when I get sick/injured. I don't pay extra for private health because of that trust, and so far it's going well for me.

I'm happy for the guy with the nail through his skull to skip ahead of me in the Emergency line. I can see people thinking that more money means working harder, means more rewards means more chance of surviving an accident, though. I guess I just don't see it that way.
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Old Sep 17th, 2009, 11:48 AM       
You have to look at world events leading up to and during that time. Napoleon was rampaging France and its allies all over Europe. Britain couldnt match his army but he couldnt match their navy. Militarily speaking they really couldnt do much to eachother so they resorted to a more economic warfare. Napoleon cut Britain off from trade with continental Europe. Britain couldnt really cut France off from trade with anyone inside continental Europe because of Napoleons superior army so they had to use their superior navy to cut off as much of his shipping trade as they could. Most of which was done with America at the time. Now Europe has many major ports all over the place where America only had a few major ports namely Baltimore, New York and New Orleans. It would be easier for Britain to block America off from France so that is what they did. They set up a naval blockade and started kidnapping American sailors and were forcing them to join the Royal Navy. America looked at this as an infringement on their sovereignty and that is why they went to war. Due to Britains naval superiority they couldnt just sail out their and start blowing them out of the water. Their only other option was to attack the British in Canada. Their objective was not to take Canada per se, it was to end the blockade and to make sure their sailors would no longer be kidnapped.

The reason I bring up that we still fly Old Glory is because as AChimp said they did capture Washington DC and did burn and loot many government buildings. Alternately we did capture and burn York. The War of 1812 took place in North America not on the other side of the globe like Vietnam.

Yes the battle of New Orleans did take place after the peace treaty but it was Britain that attacked and America that defended the city. Yet despite being outnumbered 3 to 1 Andrew Jackson kicked their asses.
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Old Sep 17th, 2009, 05:27 PM       
Because he's Andrew mother fucking Jackson. He's the exception to the rule.
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Old Sep 17th, 2009, 05:35 PM       


Dont even fuck with Old Hickory!
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Old Sep 19th, 2009, 06:43 PM       
This thread is out of control.
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 10:12 AM       
Thats the way we like it.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 10:59 AM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
So rationing of care is not Death Panels? Your lack of logic amazes me.
By this logic we already have "death panels" whether or not they work for an insurance company the government or even a hospital. Someone is always rationing health care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFoolinator
FactCheck is absolutely unreliable for numerous reasons. First reason is that it's run by a private family (Foundation's are used by the rich for social manipulation and tax avoidance on their large sums of money),
By this logic no one can trust anyone anywhere anytime. You might as well hole up in your closet with a shotgun and be prepared to blast anyone who knocks on your door while you contemplate turning the gun on yourself.


P.S. ~ Here is the health care thread that is apparently so fucking hard to find. I present it to you so you dont give the Colonel a brain aneurysm. Hmm... Guess Im rationing health care. I must be a one man DEATH PANEL!
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 11:44 AM       
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By this logic we already have "death panels" whether or not they work for an insurance company the government or even a hospital. Someone is always rationing health care.
You left out how this new "health care" bill doesn't do anything to stop the rationing of care from Government / private interests, actually bails them out of their derivative debts, and forces you to buy a product from a for profit company while cutting more funding for social safety nets.

They could of passed a law that would ban death panels (rationing of care) but they didn't THE HEALTH CARE BILLIS A FARCE, A RUSE, A SHAME, its blatant and obvious. It has death panels, it has rationing of care, it is run by private for-profit insurance companies.....this isn't difficult to understand.


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By this logic no one can trust anyone anywhere anytime.
No, that's your backwards and counter productive logic. If that were true then I wouldn't have used the World Net Daily article to back up my point but I looked it over did some fact checking (no pun intended) and found out there was no faults in the summary that Richard Poe wrote up.

You have to come to your own conclusions. You can't adhere to any kind of biased if you want to think objectively, empirically and or rationally.

think. please. I beg you.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 11:49 AM       
We are thinking. You however, are bleating and babbling without making much coherence. Much like a lost sheep.

Just sayin'.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 11:50 AM       
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We are thinking. You however, are bleating and babbling without making much coherence. Much like a lost sheep.

Just sayin'.

Prove me wrong, o' scholar. Show us what that big "degree" can do then. Come on.

Say something else other than these infantile little snipes and grumbles from the backround. I dare you.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 12:51 PM       
Nope.

Every time anyone tries to make a cogent rebuttal to your mounds and mounds of links, opinions, and general breast-beating, you either do one of two things:

1. Ignore the post and repeat near verbatim your last few posts on the subject, as if repeating them would make them any more believable, or

2. Call the poster names like "lemming" or "puppet" and do the same as step 1.

Having an intellectual discussion with you is like talking to a window. Except the window has more interesting things to say.

EDIT: Prove me wrong. Discuss the issues with The Leader. I DARE YOU! (in a non-judgemental non-confrontational manner, as bespeaks a man of culture and breeding, of course. )
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 01:15 PM       
He has been, it's just that he's right and I've been brainwashed and the best way to beat brainwashing is to repeat yourself over and over.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 01:18 PM       
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Nope.

Every time anyone tries to make a cogent rebuttal to your mounds and mounds of links, opinions, and general breast-beating, you either do one of two things:
I guess having an independent opinion backed up by information is against the social norm now a days. I have to start remembering that we all have to think and act the like a hive.

Bzzzzzzz. Hope and Change. bzzzzzzzz

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He has been, it's just that he's right and I've been brainwashed and the best way to beat brainwashing is to repeat yourself over and over.
I wouldn't say brainwashed. More like conditioned similar to Pavlov's Dog.

(Rings Bell)
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 01:25 PM       
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 02:19 PM       
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No, that's your backwards and counter productive logic. If that were true then I wouldn't have used the World Net Daily article to back up my point but I looked it over did some fact checking (no pun intended) and found out there was no faults in the summary that Richard Poe wrote up.
So The Leader cant use FactCheck.org but you can use the World Net Daily?! FactCheck at least claims to be non-partisan. WND is openly conservative. I have read over many things at FactCheck and they have never shown themselves to favor one side. WND generally and openly favors the right. You then give The Leader shit for distrusting O'Reilly when you yourself said...

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I really don't know how people take any of them seriously. Everything is already written for them and downloaded into their teleprompters before they even get to work, they self censor themselves, and are in the tank whoever pays the most.
and...

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You guys really believe that all the talking heads, left or right, are really pushing their own ideologies? You don't think they are reading from a pre-written script?
Hell you yourself dont trust the guy. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF. So why isnt it ok for him to be distrustful?


Beyond that show me an article where FactCheck got it blatantly wrong.

Not to mention in the past WND has said FactCheck is correct and agreed with them on at least one occasion on the subject of Obamas birth certificate.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

Quote:
Originally Posted by WND
However, FactChecker.org says it obtained Obama's actual certification of live birth and that the document was indeed real. The site discredited some of the claims of Internet bloggers, such as that the certificate as viewed in a scanned copy released by Obama's campaign lacked a raised seal. FactChecker.org also established that many of the alleged flaws in the document noted by bloggers were caused by the scanning of the document.
A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.

So if they guys you are saying are true and correct say FactCheck is true and correct...




But Im getting away from my original point. You said you cant trust organizations because they lie but then expect us to trust this other organization just because? And IM the one with "backwards and counter productive" logic?! Go screw yourself is probably the nicest thing I can really respond to that with.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 02:25 PM       
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I wouldn't say brainwashed. More like conditioned similar to Pavlov's Dog.

(Rings Bell)
God your a fucking tool. You have been saying The Leader (and all the rest of us) have been fed incorrect info so that we believe what "they" want us to. THAT IS FUCKING BRAINWASHED. For it to be anything similar to Pavlovs Dog The Leader (and the rest of us) would have to be getting some "reward" for an "action" that would make us want to repeat said "action". Quit trying to pull shit out of your ass to sound smart you fucking retard. At the beginning of this debate, although full of shit, you at least argued your shit in a moderately respectable way. Now you are just grasping at straws and quickly making this not worth anyones time. As if trying to talk to someone as close minded with their head up their ass as you was ever worth it.
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 02:39 PM       
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So The Leader cant use FactCheck.org but you can use the World Net Daily?! FactCheck at least claims to be non-partisan. WND is openly conservative. I have read over many things at FactCheck and they have never shown themselves to favor one side. WND generally and openly favors the right. You then give The Leader shit for distrusting O'Reilly when you yourself said...
TheLeader can use whatever information he pleases, all I did was give an indepth history of who FactCheck is, which foundation they are tied too, and who worked for them in the past (OBAMA).

Even if WND says they are "conservative" that's completely irrelevant because it's the information in the article I was speaking about not the altruistic nature of World net Daily.



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So why isnt it ok for him to be distrustful?
God help us.....

TheLeader has every right to be distrustful of whomever he pleases BUT he used a discredited talking head teleprompter reader from the "right" persuasion in a ham fisted attempt to discredit my article. You can't just say a person's name who is a villian and attach them to anything you want to attack on the basis of nothing.

The article I posted was about the Obama health care monstrosity. NOT ABOUT BILL O'REILLY. They have nothing to do with each other.

See? get it?





Quote:
Not to mention in the past WND has said FactCheck is correct and agreed with them on at least one occasion on the subject of Obamas birth certificate.
Drew Zahn agreed with Factcheck.....Not WND......WND is a news website.....Drew Zahn is a writer. She doesn't speak for her entire paper.



Quote:
But Im getting away from my original point. You said you cant trust organizations because they lie .
No, what I said is that people can absorb any information they wish but one must come to an independent conclusion on them.

Example:
Quote:
However, FactChecker.org says it obtained Obama's actual certification of live birth and that the document was indeed real. The site discredited some of the claims of Internet bloggers, such as that the certificate as viewed in a scanned copy released by Obama's campaign lacked a raised seal. FactChecker.org also established that many of the alleged flaws in the document noted by bloggers were caused by the scanning of the document.
Quote:
A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.

^ This quote is all fine and dandy BUT they don't mention that Obama has spent over 2 MILLION dollars fighting legal battles concealing his birth certificate.

That's 2 MILLION dollars of legal costs to hide something and who are those "experts" they are talking about and wouldn't those bloggers who added text be in jail for falsifing a legal document? Who are these experts? Why haven't they talked about the 2 million in legal fees paid to lawyers to fight cases that want to see his documentation?

See?


AND!!!!!

Did you even read the editors notes?

Quote:
(Editor's note: WND's investigation into the certification of live birth did not include inspecting the actual document, but only asking experts to evaluate the online image. Those experts, therefore, could not "prove" the document's authenticity. The experts told WND merely that many of the forgery claims made against the image were inconclusive or falsified, leaving them no evidence that would cast doubt on the image's authenticity.)
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Old Apr 27th, 2010, 02:57 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheDipshit View Post
TheLeader can use whatever information he pleases, all I did was give an indepth history of who FactCheck is, which foundation they are tied too, and who worked for them in the past (OBAMA).
In an attempt to discredit them by saying they are bias towards Obama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDipshit
Even if WND says they are "conservative" that's completely irrelevant because it's the information in the article I was speaking about not the altruistic nature of World net Daily.
This is a valid point because you tried to discredit FacCheck by saying they were bias but then use your own bias source. Psst... This makes you a hypocrite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDipshit
TheLeader has every right to be distrustful of whomever he pleases BUT he used a discredited talking head teleprompter reader from the "right" persuasion in a ham fisted attempt to discredit my article. You can't just say a person who is a villian and attach his or her name to anything you want to attack on the basis of nothing. The article I posted was about the Obama health care monstrosity. NOT ABOUT BILL O'REILLY. They have nothing to do with each other.

See? get it?
He was pointing out how O'Relly writes for WND and that if they will let just any bias fuck write for them how much can they really be trusted. Meanwhile FactCheck doesnt let just anyone write for them.


Do YOU see? Do YOU get it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDipshit
Drew Zahn agreed with Factcheck.....Not WND......WND is a news website.....Drew Zahn is a writer. She doesn't speak for her entire paper.
They hired his ass there for in a way he does represent the company. This is why people get fired for acting like fuck twats when working for a company. BECAUSE ITS A REFLECTION OF THE COMPANY.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDipshit
No, what I said is that people can absorb any information they wish but one must come to an independent conclusion on them.
Again. NO THATS NOT WHAT YOU SAID. What you said was...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDipshit
FactCheck is absolutely unreliable for numerous reasons. First reason is that it's run by a private family (Foundation's are used by the rich for social manipulation and tax avoidance on their large sums of money),
As in people shouldnt absorb info form them. You then went on to give some crap from WND implying people should absorb info from them.
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