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Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:22 PM        Bush: The Protests Don't Matter!
From today's Washington Post:

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Bush said that the size of the protests against a possible U.S.-led war against Iraq was irrelevant.

and

"Democracy is a beautiful thing, and that people are allowed to express their opinion," Bush said.
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:26 PM       
He is correct...they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I think he also said that he "respectfully disagrees" with the protestors.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:29 PM       
..as do I.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:50 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir
He is correct...they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
1.5 million people in England are irrelevant?? hundreds of thousands of people across the USA are irrelevant? Does it ever itch or burn to be so condescending...?
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Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:53 PM       
Kevin, as long as the opinion polls favor the war, they will continue to be irrelevant.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 02:56 PM       
Well in that case they are VERY relevant in England....
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 03:07 PM       
I did not mean to be condescending.

I just meant that I respectfully disagree with their view on this matter and that "in the grand scheme of things" the "protests" are irrelevant...guess Bush and I should have clarified that.

I wish there didn't have to be war, but sometimes it is the only solution that our feeble minds can come up with
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 03:13 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir
I wish there didn't have to be war, but sometimes it is the only solution that our feeble minds can come up with
I know. You should fix that.
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:10 PM       
Protestors would be relevant if we lived in a Democracy, therein lies the problem.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:17 PM       
We do live in a democracy, and most of those protesters probably don't vote anyway.
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:25 PM       
President Bush...Democracy?
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:26 PM       
Well then what are you prepared to do about the electoral college...? Don't blame Bush for taking advantage of a flawed system....
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:27 PM       
Actually the United States is and has been a representative republic.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:29 PM       
And what electoral pretense does a republic work under??? BUSH SUCKS, OK MISTER SMART PANTS!!?
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:49 PM       
if the us were an official democracy, we'd still be in the same shape, considering the percentages of actual voters, right?

current shape: nonogon.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 04:55 PM       
No, because Gore won the popular vote.
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 05:06 PM       
So Bush didn't give in to mob rule. OK. We pay him to lead, not follow.

And if we were a true Democracy, Strom Thurman and George Wallace would have both been president by now.

I don't think any president since FDR won more than 50% of the vote.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 05:26 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
So Bush didn't give in to mob rule. OK. We pay him to lead, not follow.
Right, and we "pay" the Congress to be reflective of the people, and to likewise be a counter-balance to the President's autonomy. So how does that work out when you have a Republican controlled majority in Congress, as well as a fairly weak opposition party as the minority...?

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we were a true Democracy, Strom Thurman and George Wallace would have both been president by now.
I think this is an extreme answer that isn't necessarily true. Extreme candidates win office under current rules, too. Bob Barr managed to exist in Georgia, and Bernie Sanders is doing just fine in Vermont.

Your argument is also a very condescending one that shows little faith in the American people. If we live in a nation where a lunatic could be popularly elected, don't you think we have more problems than just the functions of our government...?

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think any president since FDR won more than 50% of the vote.
This would change if we had a higher voter turnout. Maybe people need to feel insentive??
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:08 PM       
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So how does that work out when you have a Republican controlled majority in Congress,
How did they get there again?

Quote:
Extreme candidates win office under current rules, too. Bob Barr managed to exist in Georgia, and Bernie Sanders is doing just fine in Vermont.
And they are doing just fine in the small areas they are confined to. They were directly elected by the people of their region. That doesn't mean they should be running the country.

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Your argument is also a very condescending one that shows little faith in the American people.
Gee, I wonder how my faith was shattered. Could it be the fact that American Idol gets more voters than a presidential election?

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If we live in a nation where a lunatic could be popularly elected, don't you think we have more problems than just the functions of our government...?
We do have more problems than the functions of our government.

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This would change if we had a higher voter turnout. Maybe people need to feel insentive??
You have say in choosing the Leader of the Free World and can better your life and the life of your children. What more do people want? A DVD box set of the campaign? Maybe a CD of all the contestants.....er, candidates.
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:25 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheHerbivore
No, because Gore won the popular vote.
as i have said before, if gore were president, the west coast would probably be a muslim stronghold by now.

either that or he would have done something equally as ridiculous, like pay al-qaeda indemnities or something.
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:27 PM       
Not sure what shocks me more. Bush's quote (shades of Nixon?) or that anyone was really idealistic enough to think the protets do matter as anything but a soul cleansing experience.

The protest I would have liked to attended would have been right after the election when out civil liberties WERE taken away, votes weren't counted, and a Democratic candidate handed over a peoples election. Where were we then?
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Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:46 PM        IDOL
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Gee, I wonder how my faith was shattered. Could it be the fact that American Idol gets more voters than a presidential election?
Sad but true. Even if many of the voters for American Idol are below voting age. Who knows, maybe it will catch on and this coming generation will vote as they get older.

I can just see the tv and radio spots to promote the election. It would be marketing from hell.

The sad thing is, our political leaders are way out of touch with the generations behind them. But what is even worse is that the generations behind us tend to be even more out of touch with government, politics and the world at large than any generation before them.
I am frightened when hearing a 20 year old say "world war 2? that's like ancient history." I mentioned that "ancient history" wouldn't have involved their grandparents.
I know so many people in that same generation who think that Vietnam was "that thing with the hippies"
Korea? What happend there?
And don't even ask them about any of the mid-east conflicts. Even Desert Storm is something they barely remember.
I had a very good friend of mine who is in her early 20's tell me to leave her alone on 9/11 when the usual panic phone calls start to get made. Her response was "why does everyone keep calling. So what some people got killed. It's in NY it doesn't affect me. I'm going back to bed." To this day she still doesn't think it's a big deal. She knows nothing of the events surrounding the mid east or Korea. She simply doesn't care.
Needless to say, my friendship with her has dwindled as has my friendship with many people younger than me. I used to think it was because the mental age gap was an issue again, and then I realized it is more than that. I simply can't be around people that out of touch with the world around them.
To so many of the younger generations Eurpoe is a place to go see with cool buildings and a lot of visual history. But ask them about the culture, about the people past and present and they look at you blankly. How many people want to see the pyamids, but think nothing of the people who built them and the decendents alive today? Or how many people want to go to Japan to be at the electronic meca yet know nothing of the current culture other than anime and badly reproduced weapons, much less the history.

Gah....I am disgusted again. Some times it seems so obvious why the rest of the wold hates us.
We should stop trying to tell the rest of the world what to do and fix our own problems. We have enough of them.
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:50 PM       
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The protest I would have liked to attended would have been right after the election when out civil liberties WERE taken away, votes weren't counted, and a Democratic candidate handed over a peoples election. Where were we then?
You mean they didn't count the votes that were improperly filled out? what about the military votes the Democrats always manage to flush in Florida? Why did no one care until it finally bit the guy the media likes in the ass? Stop whining.
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 07:55 PM       
I think sometimes that it might be good for America to fade out of the role of "the last superpower" and become more "just another country, but bigger". It had nothing to do with wanting to see the US fail or get beaten down, but I believe that such humility would provide an eye-opener for Americans to the rest of the world. Of course, narrow-minded and ignorant morons exist in every nation (and abundantly), but an isolated, rich and powerful nation like the US seems to narrow the mind to one's own shores even more.

I'm making a bit of a broad generalization here, but keep in mind that I consider the majority of humanity to be imbeciles in their own way, and find the majority of people who post here very open-minded and intelligent.

Anyway, I hope the protests go into the history books. Despite that they could not possibly prevent the upcoming war, they might be a lesson for the future anyway.
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Feb 18th, 2003, 08:00 PM       
Hey, vibe, can you appreciate the irony? The generation that grows up with satelite TV, radio, internet, cell phones, Palm pilots, and a ton of other communication devices turns out to be a bunch of shut ins.
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