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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2004, 07:41 PM        MICHAEL MOORE KEPT IRAQI ABUSE QUIET TO MAKE A PROFIT
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable

Filmmaker Michael Moore said Friday he wasn't sure he did the right thing by saving footage of U.S. American soldiers' cruelty toward Iraqis for his controversial documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11,'' instead of releasing the evidence earlier when it might have helped halt such abuse.

"I had it months before the story broke on '60 Minutes,' and I really struggled with what to do with it,'' Moore said in a telephone interview with The Chronicle. "I wanted to come out with it sooner, but I thought I'd be accused of just putting this out for publicity for my movie. That prevented me from making maybe the right decision.''

The footage, eerily similar to film of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib prison, shows GIs laughing as they snap photos of each other putting hoods over Iraqi detainees.

In the same scene from "Fahrenheit 9/11,'' which opens Friday at Bay Area theaters, an American soldier fondles a prisoner's genitals through a blanket.

"The stuff with the detainees in my movie is even more shocking than what we saw in that prison because it happens outdoors and is more commonplace,'' Moore said.

The documentary links President Bush to the family of Osama bin Laden and other oil-rich Saudis and takes the president to task for his response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The film, which won the top prize at the Cannes Film Festival last month, became the center of a corporate spat between Disney and its subsidiary Miramax when Disney Chairman Michael Eisner said he wouldn't allow the film to be distributed. Later, Disney sold the film to Miramax co-Chairmen Harvey and Bob Weinstein. The film is now being distributed by Lions Gate Films, IFC Films and the Fellowship Adventure Group, the latter specifically set up by the Weinsteins to handle Moore's documentary.

Had Miramax released the film as originally planned, it most likely would have played in art houses, the traditional home of documentaries. But because of the intense interest in "Fahrenheit'' fueled by the distribution controversy, the film will now open simultaneously at multiplexes around the country.

"It will be in 700 theaters," Moore said. "It's the largest opening I've had, four times the number of screens that 'Columbine,' was on." Moore won the Oscar for best documentary for his 2002 "Bowling for Columbine."

"Fahrenheit'' comes down hard on Bush for starting a war the filmmaker clearly sees as folly. But the most disturbing images are of America's fighting forces in Iraq appearing as dazed and confused as soldiers portrayed in the Vietnam movie, "Platoon.''

"The situation is like Vietnam. The conditions in Iraq are just terrible, '' Moore said. "The soldiers know they are over there for a bull -- reason. .. . Bush has created an atmosphere for those who serve under him to also behave in immoral ways.''

Moore said he has received more than 1,500 letters from American soldiers expressing opposition to the war and said he is considering compiling the letters into a book.

E-mail Ruthe Stein at rstein@sfchronicle.com.
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Old Jun 13th, 2004, 07:51 PM       
WINNER: CAPITOLISM!
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 12:06 AM       
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WINNER: CAPITOLISM!
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 02:16 PM       
The winner is Michael Moore at the expense of dead and tortured Iraqis.

Not capitalism.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 02:24 PM       
Oh, I see, so now you're deeply concerned for the tortured and dead now that Michael Moore is involved. That's the only reason you give a shit, Ronnie.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 02:54 PM       
WINNER: SSPADOWSKY
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:06 PM       
so would you say this makes moore just as bad or perhaps worse :o than the administration that said torture is aok to begin with?
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:06 PM       
i'm interested to see what moore does with his 'profits'.. i think ronnie might be a little disappointed to find out that his motives aren't all about limo rides and plush country clubs.

that aside, i find it ludicris that moore is somehow responsible for exposing the wrong doings of this government when he doesn't work for any news agencies or the government.. as a watchdog he does what he can and as he admits its not a perfect job..

bush on the other hand is responsible for tens of thousands of dead and tortured souls and is gleefully getting away with it!

moore profiting on war and torture? LOL, what a joke.. lets talk about haliburton, brown & root and the dozens of other contractors.. moore's trying to help stop this stuff, jeeze
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:33 PM       
Yeah, wait, why is the burden all of a sudden on Moore? Shouldn't the administration have gotten ahold of the Taguba report and done something about it?

The only reason the administration even flinched is because this shit hit the presses. You'll reach for fucking anything, won't you?
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:38 PM       
"Oh, I see, so now you're deeply concerned for the tortured and dead now that Michael Moore is involved. That's the only reason you give a shit, Ronnie." - Spad

My point is your sudden lack of concern and the fact that you didn't condemn this man for his absolute hypocrisy.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:46 PM       
Who likes the Ramones?
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 04:48 PM       
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MICHAEL MOORE KEPT IRAQI ABUSE QUIET TO MAKE A PROFIT
Quote:
"I had it months before the story broke on '60 Minutes,' and I really struggled with what to do with it,'' Moore said in a telephone interview with The Chronicle. ["I wanted to come out with it sooner, but I thought I'd be accused of just putting this out for publicity for my movie. That prevented me from making maybe the right decision.''
Do you ever read the articles that you post, Ronnie? I mean, aside from the headlines, that is.

If Moore found out about it months before it showed up in the media, then you can be sure that the government new about it even earlier. I mean, if the government doesn't know what it's own military is doing, it must be pretty incompetent, huh?

Extra footage of naked Iraqis isn't going to make thousands more people flock to see Moore's movie, because A) naked Iraqis aren't at the top of most peoples' must-see list, and B) it is sooooo last month.

At least Moore is coming forward and admitting that he didn't make a good decision. When is Bush going to come forward and say that invading Iraq wasn't a good decision, that the intelligence was wrong?
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 05:12 PM       
Ronnie, it was the BUSH administration that was responsible for this, not Moore. Moore may have known, but that doesn't mean it's not the BUSH admin's fault. So are you voting for Kerry now? Because, if you're going to get so upset about this, you fucking better.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 05:20 PM       
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
"Oh, I see, so now you're deeply concerned for the tortured and dead now that Michael Moore is involved. That's the only reason you give a shit, Ronnie." - Spad

My point is your sudden lack of concern and the fact that you didn't condemn this man for his absolute hypocrisy.
Whether he's a hypocrite remains to be seen. The fact of the matter is that this behavior was approved by top administration officials, up to and including your beloved president. Those are the guys you should be pissed at. If Moore can be found at fault for sitting on this, that doesn't change the fact that the top brass (A) knew about and (B) condoned the torture and abuse. You're getting mad at the wrong people, Ronnie. It's not even debatable at this point.

EDIT: BTW, I've already expressed my outrage over this- and the funny thing is, Ronnie, it was directed at the people who were actually at fault. The important thing to remember here is that you only posted this because you thought it would make Moore look bad. You give less than a shit about the torture scandal. It shows.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:20 PM       
You could care less. All you care about is using it as an issue to bash Bush over when it really has nothing to do with Bush.

For more than a month you've been screaming about coverups and now that your personal Jesus, Michael Moore, is involved in a coverup....you refuse to condemn his actions....

I'm just exposing you for what you are...
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:28 PM       
Yes, yes, Ronnie, we're all hypocrites and you are a blind sheep.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:30 PM       
Whatever.....just keep supporting Michael Moore and proving my point.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:36 PM       
And you can keep worshipping W's shit and proving ours.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:44 PM       
I don't worship W....never have. But if I found out that he personally attempted to cover up Iraqi abuse instead of trying to do something about it I would say that it was an incredibly shite thing to do.

The fact that you can't shows that you don't really care and that it only matters if it suits your political agenda.
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 06:56 PM       
You're right. I don't need to care because it wasn't my country's soldiers doing the torturing.

You've only brought this up because, *gasp!* there was someone on the left who didn't run screaming to the "liberal" media when they found out.

You still haven't explained how Moore did this to score more money, which WAS the original intent of this thread, wasn't it? Or did you mean to type "Moore is a hypocrite" rather than "MICHAEL MOORE KEPT IRAQI ABUSE QUIET TO MAKE A PROFIT"? That's rather Vinthian of you, Ronnie, but when have we ever been able to expect anything else?

The article makes no mention of him doing this for extra money; in fact, he claims to have done it to avoid being perceived as only seeking attention. Had Moore exposed this himself, rather than letting a reliable news outlet do it, it's quite likely that the whole issue would have been whitewashed as exaggeration because Mooer "lies."
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 07:04 PM       
the bush administration takes the cake in coverups.

starting with the election, on to 9/11, support and use of known felons, corporate preferential treatment, reasons to go to war and on and on.

there's more than a few previous administration officials talking about it as well as several dozen books and hundreds of articles, but i guess their hard to find :/
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Old Jun 14th, 2004, 08:42 PM       
Well with any luck Moore won't profit at all from this movie and it'll go down the tube, but we can only hope... :/
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Old Jun 15th, 2004, 10:53 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
You could care less. All you care about is using it as an issue to bash Bush over when it really has nothing to do with Bush.

For more than a month you've been screaming about coverups and now that your personal Jesus, Michael Moore, is involved in a coverup....you refuse to condemn his actions....

I'm just exposing you for what you are...
Let me explain something to you, jerky: I know jack shit about Michael Moore. I've never read any of his books or seen any of his movies. I may have read an op-ed somewhere along the way, and I think I saw his TV Nation show once or twice. Got it? While I'm sure he's much more in the neighborhood of my political views than, say, Bush, I really know very little about the guy. I also said that exactly to what extent he is a hypocrite, or is at fault, remains to be seen.

But I'll bet you that he DIDN'T know about it as early as the administration did, because, again, the administration approved and condoned the tactics that are the focus of this scandal. You're not exposing anything other than your typical partisan jackassery.
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Old Jun 15th, 2004, 11:17 AM       
I saw a black child getting beaten today in the middle of the street by police officers for no reason, but yunno, really, honestly, thats none of my business. As a citizen I really don't have to report stuff like that, because, heck, I wasn't the one beating him and really the police shouldnt have been doin it in the first place! I'm in the right guys, aren't I? I'm still a morally sound and ethical individual right?

For the love of fuck you assholes will do anything to dissagree with Ronnie, or for others, agree with Moore. This was a very very bad thing he did. He had information that probably could've led to earlier action in fixing the situation in Iraqi prisons and he didn't for reasons concerning public fucking opinion on him. Thats horrible. Hes a horrible person, and you cannot dodge that.

And I'm extremely anti-war and anti-bush, as most libertarians are, so alliegances to politcal agendas and the like have no bias on my opinion in this matter. Moore is a douchebag no matter what case hes fighting for.
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Old Jun 15th, 2004, 11:45 AM       
hey bubba, if moore is a very very bad person why would he struggle on the issue of forwarding the footage? wouldnt he just hide it and make up some story about how he couldnt release the footage?
why would he admit his faults if he were so bad?

plus the stories that came out about abuse BEFORE moore had his footage were being met with accusations of anti-americanism and were being blacklisted from the mainstream. i read many reports just a couple months after the war started but only in the alternative media, and those media outlets were often severely attacked or ignored.
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