Abortion

[Anonymous]

SO FAR I HAVE MADE THE BEST POINT IN THIS THREAD :<

[The_voice_of_reason]

Originally Posted by Raven

The same applies for homicide.

No because homicide hurts other people, drugs and abortion only hurt the user.

[Anonymous]

A good point was actually raised in that tax money goes to abortions as well as war. But the analogy fails when you consider that it's our government killing foreign people, not our government killing natives; The only government involvement in abortion lies in setting the table for homocide, rather than serving up a 13-course banquet.

I have no problem with abortion and furthermore do not see the first-trimester-fetus as a living person. I personally would like the option open to me if need be because I am a whore. The end.

[AChimp]

HOW MUCH?

[Anonymous]

it's usually free

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by ranxer

i guess i do support my taxes going to kill fetuses but that doesnt mean i should support my taxes going to kill iraqis, afghanis etc.
fetuses dont retaliate fetuses arent a country, a people, or a religion.

So, its OK to kill someone as long as they can't go on TV and cry for help? Basically, you support the extermination of the utterly defensless.

i wish we could choose what we want our taxes to pay for individually.. but damn the beurocracy that would create would be monstrous. :miffed

then all the vitl programs that most people don't know about or understand get cut because no one wants to pend money on it.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason

No because homicide hurts other people, drugs and abortion only hurt the user.

But no one has proven to me that it is not hurting another person. I mean what you believe and what is fact are two different things, not saying what you believe is wrong merely stating that there has currently been placed a lack of evidence for it being right. Just because someone believes that they are the only thing that truly exists, G-d bless the existintinalist, does not mean they are correct. It is a belief based solely on faith. I am speaking in terms of mass government "control". You can't base such things upon faith. To do so restricts the natural freedom of the citizens. So please explain to me how it is not hurting another person.

[Protoclown]

To say that drugs and abortion only hurt the "user" is an oversimplification. I think it's a bit of a stretch anyway to make that point as far as abortions go, since when you have an abortion you are directly affecting your will on what would otherwise probably become another person.

And drugs, in a sense, are capable of emotionally hurting those who care about the abuser, albeit indirectly.

I don't really have much of an agenda here in saying this, I just thought this would be something to consider. It all depends on how you look at it. Hell, someone who takes the "abortion interferes with the natural course of events that would eventually create a baby" line of thought could potentially even see the morning after pill as completely unacceptable.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Protoclown

I don't really have much of an agenda here in saying this, I just thought this would be something to consider. It all depends on how you look at it. Hell, someone who takes the "abortion interferes with the natural course of events that would eventually create a baby" line of thought could potentially even see the morning after pill as completely unacceptable.

Yes but they would also see most things as unacceptable. Including contraceptive. As that also interferes with the natural course of events.

[Protoclown]

So in short, someone who takes it that far is insane anyway...

[Raven]

Probably so. Either way that's no where near what I'm arguing. Not even in the same ball park.

[UnDeath]

hmm. Those who are anti abortion, whats your views on aborting a child that would be born into the world with a severe mental handicap? For example, say someone needs to take pills to more or less keep him/herself sane, yet these pills would cause severe brain damage to the fetus. Is it still wrong?

Also, out of curiosity, how many of you who are against abortions still live with your parents/gaurdians? How many of you are religious?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by UnDeath

hmm. Those who are anti abortion, whats your views on aborting a child that would be born into the world with a severe mental handicap? For example, say someone needs to take pills to more or less keep him/herself sane, yet these pills would cause severe brain damage to the fetus. Is it still wrong?

Also, out of curiosity, how many of you who are against abortions still live with your parents/gaurdians? How many of you are religious?

I have already stated that I am willing to allow for exclusions. Such as rape, severe mental handicap, incest, or endangering of mother's life.

I currently am living with a parent. I also am not religious.

[Anonymous]

Well, duh. You're like 5.

[Raven]

Yes I am 5. And you have no gender.

[Anonymous]

It was an exaggeration, obviously. But seriously, stating that you live with your parents is in the same ballpark as listing yourself as occupation: student on forms. Those aren't meant for you, silly, they're meant for colleges.

Besides, if I had no gender, I couldn't put my penis into all the girls and boys of the land :<

[Raven]

As was mine. Obviously. And wow I'm in college so does that mean I can finally list student on forms. Man am I glad to clear that up. And here I was all worried.

Are you sure that's a penis, and not just an oversized clitoris?

[The_voice_of_reason]

There is unfortunatly no way yet to prove when a fetus becomes alive, alive is losely defined any way. Viruses are not "alive" acorrding to some people (myself included) but yet they can move and reproduce and perform several "life" functions. So the question is when does a fetus stop being a virus.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason

There is unfortunatly no way yet to prove when a fetus becomes alive, alive is losely defined any way. Viruses are not "alive" acorrding to some people (myself included) but yet they can move and reproduce and perform several "life" functions. So the question is when does a fetus stop being a virus.

Or perhaps when did it ever become a virus? For the fetus does fit all the criteria for the 7 basic biology principles of a living organism. While a virus must utilize a outside source in order to reproduce. To compare a fetus to a virus is a bad analogy. As the fetus has the protential to reproduce. A virus is still in question as to whether it actually reproduces or simple duplicates.

[The_voice_of_reason]

As the fetus has the protential to reproduce

Becareful with words like potential, after all the sperm that were recieved into one of my socks about two hours ago had the potential to become part of a human.

By the way, do you know what the 7 princeples of a living organism are, i can't remember them or find them using a search engine.

[Raven]

This is a nice edit since you fixed that.

Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason

Becareful with words like potential, after all the sperm that were recieved into one of my socks about two hours ago had the potential to become part of a human.

By the way, do you know what the 7 princeples of a living organism are, i can't remember them or find them using a search engine.

Yes it has the potential to create a human, but the sperm cell isn't a living organism.

I feel the same dilemma. I use to have them memorized. But I haven't used them in a while. I will list the ones I do know though. And hopefully someone will be kind enough to fill in the gaps.

Potential to reproduce.
Reacts to stimuli in the environment.

And sadly that's all I can remember.

[UnDeath]

Yes. Congradulations. You have discerned that a fetus is made up of living cells, much like, say, a leech.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by UnDeath

Yes. Congradulations. You have discerned that a fetus is made up of living cells, much like, say, a leech.

Yes but a leech isn't composed of human DNA is it. Thus it doesn't garner the human proclaimed right to life.

[UnDeath]

Back to the human DNA. So is this scab I just picked off. Still going into the trash, tho. And who says that humans have the right to live? We're just another animal, and we have no qualms about a nice juicy steak, do we? The cow killed to get said steak most likely had more self awareness than a still developing fetus.

[Raven]

So than what is happening to the arab prisoners is perfectly fine?