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  #76  
The Leader The Leader is offline
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Old Apr 4th, 2010, 04:44 PM       
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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
Most countries wouldn't put up with people occupying a piece of land which they used to own right next door, especially if it was important. Isn't that pretty much consistent throughout most cases of terrorism, too? Having had a part of your country occupied?
No man, it's cause they're a bunch of towel heads with their different kind of bible and churches that teach them how to make IED's (that improvised explosive device i heard about them on the bbc lol). If they were western they woudlnt' be doing none of this.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 08:02 AM       
I find it strange that you don't see the Palestinians as having genuine grievances not because you disagree with their historical claims (which, you do, but it's not your main reason) but because you consider their culture to be wrong (which it may be, but it's got nothing to do with their demands behind their struggle).

Or do people that treat women as second class citizens not deserve basic justice and human rights? Now who's the backwards barbarian?

Should the actual acts of a group legitimise their struggle? Or should the struggle simply legitimise itself? Take for example the various groups of Irish Republicans over the decades; mostly left wing, mostly progressive. They want social reform as well as their national freedom, but do they deserve it any more than the Palestinians, simply because their culture is different? (I too would say BETTER rather than DIFFERENT, but I don't have any qualms about appearing disdainful of backwards peoples). Rebublicans don't use suicide bombing, generally aren't religious - or it's not a requirement - and although nobody would be surprised to find quite a lot of hate for the occupiers, there is no hatred of the English people. Do the Irish deserve Northern Ireland more than the Palestinians deserve Palestine?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 09:40 AM       
Irony of the Day:

Israel has been waging a holocaust against the Palestinian people since its inception.

Can anyone say "war crimes"?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 09:43 AM       
Yeah, but it's ok because America supports them! :D
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 09:44 AM       
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Yeah, but it's ok because America supports them! :D
3 billion dollars a year + free weapons = A lot of dead innocent palestinians.

Wouldn't that be considered state sponsored terrorism? Hmmm
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 09:53 AM       
You don't hear about this in the news, but American soldiers actually train in Israel as part of their training. Not just training, but their training includes serving as a front line soldier. So America sends soldiers to kill Palestinians, basically.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:01 AM       
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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
You don't hear about this in the news, but American soldiers actually train in Israel as part of their training. Not just training, but their training includes serving as a front line soldier. So America sends soldiers to kill Palestinians, basically.
See,

This is the big farce we've been discussing here.

We talk about "terrorism" and "terrorists" like theres actually this underground threat to civilized humanity while all the while we (The civilized nations) are bombing innocents, bulldozing their houses, provoking confrontations with disenfranchised individuals, and manipulating information to condition our own populations to believe it's a "JUST" war.

I call bullshit.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:05 AM       
Dude, I've already posted that terrorism is carried out by non state actors while state terror is the equivalent when carried out by a recognized government.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:11 AM       
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See,

This is the big farce we've been discussing here.

We talk about "terrorism" and "terrorists" like theres actually this underground threat to civilized humanity while all the while we (The civilized nations) are bombing innocents, bulldozing their houses, provoking confrontations with disenfranchised individuals, and manipulating information to condition our own populations to believe it's a "JUST" war.

I call bullshit.
Exactly. During the Tasmanian war the Australian government pumped millions not only into the Commonwealth military, but also into paramilitary groups whose sole purpose seemed to be the terrorising of the population. There was a scandal not long ago when the information finally got out, but people on the mainland didn't seem to care. It's just because we lost that we don't get to write the history books, and we were seen as the terrorists back then simply because we didn't have the funds to buy tanks and planes.

But you tell me, who is the terrorist if one side is shooting soldiers and the other side is shooting civilians?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:13 AM       
Terrorist isn't a bad word. You have to get away from that stigma.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:14 AM       
You just say that because you've never had to have your family gunned down with your eyes.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:18 AM       
You tell me that when you have an Israeli soldier literally gutting your new born baby inside your own home. THEN we will see if you think that.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:19 AM       
It'd be an act of state terror. You become retarded too?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:25 AM       
When negotiating broke down in the mid 70s, Australia didn't hesitate to send in an overwhelming amount of military might to crush any resistance to the Crown. an OVERWHELMING amount. By anyones standards it was overkill. Tasmanians are still considered second class citizens, and it's very expensive to get a job nowadays. You might think that just because we are fighting without the recognition of the US (don't even get me STARTED on their involvement or how they are the real terrorists) that we are the terrorists. But you tell me, who are the terrorists when children are born in a supposedly first world country that literally cannot speak for the first months of their life because of Mainland sanctions against pregnant women.

Also, yes
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:27 AM       
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But you tell me, who is the terrorist if one side is shooting soldiers and the other side is shooting civilians?
I think TheLeader has gone off the deep end.

But back to your question,

The word "Terrorist" and "Terrorism" does not refer to the military tactic anymore. It's been turned into a label. If you're against the establishment (AKA - War, erosion of civil liberties, against Wallstreet) then you're labeled a terrorist. Meaning that you're the boogeyman. You're the "extremist" who isn't normal.


Who is the terrorists you ask? None of them. They are all pawns in a larger game. They are all funded by the same side and are meant to create a perpetual state of war.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:38 AM       
Basically the war was just another flash in the pan during the Cold War. That's how most people see it, anyhow. On one side there was the UK/US/AUS defending Crown land and western ideals, and on the other you had terrorists. But for people like me, my family and thousands of other Tasmanians, it's a reality that we have to live with. Officially, our state has given up it's aspirations for independence, but there are still many people that wont forgive or forget. Even today there are rebel groups that live in the remote bushlands, and while armed resistance is less popular today, there are areas where even the government are scared to fly their helicopters for fear of being shot down.

If you've never known the fear of walking down the street without being harassed simply for your ethnicity and beliefs, then you can't really comment The Leader.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:40 AM       
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But you tell me, who are the terrorists when children are born in a supposedly first world country that literally cannot speak for the first months of their life because of Mainland sanctions against pregnant women.
What?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:48 AM       
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What?
I know, it's horrible. Basically they make all milk imported into the state extremely cheap, and all milk production here is either shut down, or crippled to a point where it can't function. This means that all mothers feed their children with government supplied milk. Milk that has less vitamins, minerals and calcium, while having more chemicals such as ammonium and fluoride.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:50 AM       
And what Tasmanian war are you talking about? I only did a little looking around but the last war I was able to find involving Tasmania was "The Black War" where a bunch of Aborigines got killed. Sad story and all but thats not what your talking about is it?

And in what way are Tasmanians second class citizens? I didnt know you guys had it so bad.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:55 AM       
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I know, it's horrible. Basically they make all milk imported into the state extremely cheap, and all milk production here is either shut down, or crippled to a point where it can't function. This means that all mothers feed their children with government supplied milk. Milk that has less vitamins, minerals and calcium, while having more chemicals such as ammonium and fluoride.
Breast feed? Do they not sell Similac there? By here do you just mean Tasmania or all of Australia too?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:59 AM       
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while having more chemicals such as ammonium and fluoride.
I'm glad to see someone else knows about the dangers of fluoride. Here in the states peoples have been indoctrinated to believe it's actually good for them.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:02 AM       
Well you wont find anything on wikipedia or anything like that because it's all been removed. As you might know the Australian government controls the internet much like China does, so it's hard for a local person to set up a website about our history without coming to the attention of the authorities. So, no, our struggle isn't as widely known about as say the Palestinians or Irish.

Now, I am not saying that it's all bad, and that living here is comparable to living in Gaza or something, but you can certainly see the difference in living standards of those deemed mainlanders, and those deemed islanders. The government has extra taxes for Tasmanian businesses, which makes it hard to set one up in the first place, and all other Mainland run businesses will basically only choose local workers if they are given no other choice. We are paid less, receive less pensions, and usually have to pay more for rates. Mainlanders move here because there is a lot of cheap, fertile land, and they are given financial help to do so. It's too expensive for a local to own a house, so most people (I know someone that has a house, despite the cost and the lack of being able to loan from the bank) just rent from Mainland landlords.

That's not even starting on the unofficial harassment by groups of Mainlanders that can basically get away with beating you up, smashing your windows, and setting fire to your car. The police look the other way for them, but come down hard on Tasmanian kids spray painting anti-mainland slogans on walls.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:15 AM       
So what defines you as an islander opposed to a mainlander? Where you were born? How does anyone know without look at your records? Do you have to show that to people to get a job?

About the war still... Is it called "The Tasmanian War"? What year(s)?
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:24 AM       
There are slight differences in the accent, but yes, it's your records that show you for who you are. You can't get a job without showing them. It used to be just 'place of birth' that would give you away, but now that so many Mainlanders are having children here it became hazy. Now it's just the supposedly 'random' numbers on your passport.

As for in day to day life, well it's only the accent that gives you away.

The 'war', to us it's called the Independence Struggle, to them it's the Tasmanian Rebellion. 1976-1987.
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Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:58 AM       
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If you've never known the fear of walking down the street without being harassed simply for your ethnicity and beliefs, then you can't really comment The Leader.
Is this a response to the posts I made about Muslims which were satirizing Ant's posts?

Also your logic is flawed. You don't have to experience a event or problem first hand to study it and debate about it. You, like Ant, apparently cannot separate yourselves from events and look at them in a objective way. Nor can you distinguish between serious posts and mockery.
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