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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:03 PM        Europe Union Finds Bugging of Offices of 5 Nations
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/in...t&position=top

March 20, 2003

Europe Union Finds Bugging of Offices of 5 Nations
By ELAINE SCIOLINO

PARIS, March 19 — The European Union has uncovered a bugging operation directed at 5 of its 15 member nations, the organization announced today.

Listening devices were found late last month in the offices of the French, German, British, Austrian and Spanish delegations in a headquarters building, officials said.

European officials said they had not determined who had placed the devices.

"This equipment, which is assumed to be of hostile intent, is currently being examined in order to determine whether it may have resulted in breaches of privacy or possible damage," said a statement by the European Union. "A full investigation is under way in cooperation with the member states involved."

The disclosure comes on the eve of a two-day meeting of the leaders of the union, which has been torn apart by differences over the apparently imminent American-led war against Iraq. The sprawling glass-and-marble Justus Lipsius building in central Brussels, where the listening devices were found, was inaugurated in 1995 and is used for summit meetings. It also houses the secretariat of the union's council of ministers.

The European Union had hoped to keep the bugging scandal secret, in order to complete its investigation quietly, but it was disclosed in today's issue of the French daily Le Figaro.

Word of the bugging comes at a time of extreme tension between some union nations — particularly France and Germany — and the United States. The Bush administration's decision to use force to disarm Iraq has been vehemently criticized by the French and German governments.

"At this point we cannot say who planted these bugs," said Cristina Gallach, a spokeswoman for Javier Solana, the union's high representative for foreign and security policy.

The devices were uncovered in a routine sweep by the union's security services. According to the statement, the union discovered an "anomaly in an internal telephone line" and detected the presence of "an unknown electronic device linked to the telephone system," adding, "A small number of similar devices were found immediately afterwards in other locations in the building."

This is the first time in the building's history that a spy operation has been uncovered, officials said. The devices could have been present for some time, perhaps years, they added.

No devices were found on the phones at the military wing, which is situated in the same building, Ms. Gallach said.

Ed Kemp, a spokesman at the American mission to the union, said the mission had "received no communication about the investigation" from the European Union.

In Washington, Richard A. Boucher, the State Department spokesman, said: "I wouldn't be in any position to talk about it in any case, whether it's true or false."

Early this month, the British newspaper The Observer reported that the United States was conducting a spy operation against United Nations Security Council delegations as part of a campaign to win votes for a resolution backing the use of force in Iraq. The reports could not be confirmed.

European officials reacted to today's disclosure with shock and anger. "The first thing I can do is to condemn this act," said Foreign Minister George Papandreou of Greece, which holds the six-month rotating presidency of the union.

He added that "to all those who feel that it is necessary to tap our phones, we say that Europe is a very transparent organization" and that they should not "go to such lengths to try to find out information." He vowed that "appropriate measures" would be taken against those responsible after the investigation.

In Paris, Fran├žois Baroin, a member of Parliament and a spokesman for President Jacques Chirac's political party, said he was "surprised, very astonished and profoundly shocked" by the discovery. "Everything concerning illegal devices, everything concerning the surveillance of friendly countries is a pure and real scandal," he said in the National Assembly.

Georg Possanner, a spokesman for the Austrian delegation to the union, was quoted by the Austrian Press Agency as saying the bugging was a "totally professional operation."

A British delegation spokesman confirmed that its offices were among "about half a dozen" affected. "We are obviously very concerned about this," he said.

Two years ago, the European Parliament investigated reports that an American-led global spy network dubbed Echelon spied on Europe's business sector. American officials have not acknowledged that such a network exists and have said American agencies do not engage in industrial espionage.
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:28 PM       
If those things have been there for years, they might want to look into some new security....................or maids.
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AChimp AChimp is offline
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Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:35 PM       
I BET IT WAS THOSE DAMN RUSSKIES.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 12:45 PM       
I hope this doesn't turn out to be Us. I'm so uncomfortable hating what America stands for.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 01:56 PM       
Max, I hope some day you realize and learn that spying and deception aren't the wanted answer...but sometimes, sometimes....they are the BEST answer.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 02:42 PM       
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 03:16 PM       
Funny, we discredited these rumors months ago, when previously accused . I would imagine we will dispel these as well. See, in order to actually have ordered that, we would have had to care enough about these countries "approval," or what they thought or said in general, about what we have committed to do anyway. No one in socialist Europe will dictate our actions.

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Saddam Hussein is in violation of UN Resolution 1441
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 03:59 PM       
So you agree that the last two months of 'diplomacy' were purely sham, a show put on for moronic future voters and fence sitting peaceniks?
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 04:06 PM       
I have ALWAYS said I couldn't understand why Bush waited so long. Be quick. Be decisive. Be relentless. This could have been over last year if we disregarded the farce organization called the UN. We have know what we know for a long enough time.

And... speaking of the UN....

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SADDAM HUSSEIN IS IN VIOLATION OF UN RESOLUTION 1441
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 04:13 PM       
I'm just trying to get you to clarify here, I'm pretty clear on what YOU think, my question is, do you think Bush was just bullshitting the world these last couple of months?

Becuase then we'd agree on something and that would be novel.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 04:22 PM       
No - I believe that for some unknown reason, Bush was trying to get everyone to agree, which I also believe is a fruitless exercise. I applaud him for the effort, but all the same, disagree. I do not believe we need to answer to anyone.

Oh, and by the way.....

SADDAM HUSSEIN IS IN MATERIAL BREACH OF UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION 1441
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:01 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by HNICPantitude
Funny, we discredited these rumors months ago, when previously accused .
Related to EU spying, or UN spying??? If the latter, when was the UN spying discredited?? You seem to be a fountain of well hidden information....


Quote:
I would imagine we will dispel these as well. See, in order to actually have ordered that, we would have had to care enough about these countries "approval," or what they thought or said in general, about what we have committed to do anyway. No one in socialist Europe will dictate our actions.
You're a fool if you think we don't take them into consideration. England and "us" wouldn't have invested so much time in displaying how rotten Hussein is if we didn't want their support, or at least their approval.

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Saddam Hussein is in violation of UN Resolution 1441[/quote]
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:01 PM       
You're making such a big deal about Saddam having SCUD missiles, while the U.S. sits on the biggest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction... Do you find it hard to understand, after we pre-emptively attack another nation unilaterally (sure folks are jumping on the boat now), why other nations are afraid of what they see as our Tyrant nation?

I'm not saying that what they are doing is justified, but our actions aren't either, and will only make other countries uncomfortable, and do nothing to remedy our international reputation.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:04 PM       
You're fucking retarded Bennett - if you don't understand the reference to SCUDS - LEAVE
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:14 PM       
Hard to believe some people don't think this is a big deal.

This is clear evidence that Hussein has failed to comply by UN regulations and that the UN is duty bound to seek a regime change in Iraq as a consequence, hence post ipso facto legitimizing the war.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:14 PM       
What in his post implied a lack of understanding over SCUDs???
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Bennett Bennett is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:14 PM       
...and you so obviously understood my post. Do you think that by bombing the living hell out of a country that is in violation of the U.N. resolutions is going to make any other insane meglomaniacs out there want to get rid of illegal weapons.

I understand what you are saying, "Look everybody, we were right, Saddam has illegal weapons, thanks for backing us up." But does that justify a war that could possibly make the situation worse?
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:19 PM       
Yes.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:21 PM       
No. Sort of a tangent from the thread's purpose, but this is not a nuke, this is not bio-weaponry, this is not anthrax and nerve gas. This is yet another excuse to "shock and awe."
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Bennett Bennett is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:24 PM       
Sorry for getting it off topic...
commence shutting up :/
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:27 PM       
Kevin, we're not even a full 24 hours into this war. I'm sure you'll see more once he starts feeling backed into a corner. This is only the first in a series of bad things which are going to come to light, I'm almost sure of it.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:28 PM       
No. It is merely the symptom of a much larger problem. What will you say as each suspected item is found over the next six months? "So, it's anthrax... where's the Sarin we said he had? Oh, there's the Sarin..... well... big deal... wheres the nukes?" I mean, come on, where do you draw the line. We were in there like 14 seconds and we already had proof of what we had suspected.

The problem lies in the facty that he refuses to cooperate. His refusal to cooperate demonstrates his intentions.

We have given the man every possible chance to disarm.
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Bennett Bennett is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:34 PM       
Where do we draw the line, and when does our military turn into a shitty Tom Cruise movie, and I'm not talking about Top Gun...
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:37 PM       
Oh oh! You must be thinking of Rain Man, only instead of Dustin Hoffman, we have George Bush right?

"Definitely war. Definitely, definitely war."
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 06:08 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rorschach
Kevin, we're not even a full 24 hours into this war. I'm sure you'll see more once he starts feeling backed into a corner. This is only the first in a series of bad things which are going to come to light, I'm almost sure of it.
I could say the same thing about inspections. South Africa was almost completely compliant with inspections, and even THOSE inspections took time. These token gesture inspections were given a few months, and were in fact given up on when things began to improve (as stated by Hans Blix).
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