Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 05:56 PM        Army Chaplain Refuses Water Unless Troops Baptized
http://www.news4jax.com/sh/news/stor...09-070412.html

Report: Army Chaplain Refuses Water Unless Troops Baptized
Posted: 8:33 a.m. EDT April 9, 2003

WASHINGTON -- The president of the Interfaith Alliance says he's "appalled" at reports that a military chaplain in Iraq wouldn't give troops water unless they agreed to be baptized.
SURVEY

The Miami Herald quoted Army Chaplain Josh Llano as saying, "It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized."

Many troops have gone weeks without bathing in the desert heat, but the newspaper reports that Llano wouldn't let them into his 500-gallon pool of water unless they sat through his sermon.

The 32-year-old Llano is quoted as saying that the soldiers he baptizes "appear physically and spiritually cleansed."

Interfaith Alliance President C. Welton Gaddy said religious rites shouldn't become "bargaining tools for helping people in need."


Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 06:38 PM        Water
That is outrageous!

And people wonder why so many others have problems with religion.
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
ItalianStereotype ItalianStereotype is offline
Legislacerator
ItalianStereotype's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: HELL, where all hot things are
ItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty ok
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 06:57 PM       
it is understandable that he would feel that way, he is a chaplain, but he should have respected others religious rights. if the logistics weren't so out of whack at the moment i would say he should have the right to use that water for whatever purpose he desired since it is more than likely holy water.

ugh...anyway

jeanette, i notice that everytime you post you come across as blatantly anti-religion, anti-military, and anti-american. a lot of these terms are bandied about carelessly these days, so don't think that i am simply dismissing you as a left wing nut. perhaps you would clarify your position?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
punkgrrrlie10 is probably a spambot
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 07:09 PM       
Yeah b/c Christianity has nothing to do with not judging and helping your fellow man.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
ItalianStereotype ItalianStereotype is offline
Legislacerator
ItalianStereotype's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: HELL, where all hot things are
ItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty ok
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 07:45 PM       
actually, christianity is very active in seeking converts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 08:01 PM       
Quote:
jeanette, i notice that everytime you post you come across as blatantly anti-religion, anti-military, and anti-american. a lot of these terms are bandied about carelessly these days, so don't think that i am simply dismissing you as a left wing nut. perhaps you would clarify your position?
I am not anti-religion, anti-military, or anti-American. However, I feel that in spite of the inherent good of our institutions, we must not be reluctant to criticize them. Only by bringing problems to the spotlight can we hope to rectify them.
As for my political stance, I think that the best label for me would be moderate liberal.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 08:54 PM       
I'm sorry, IF that story is true the guy needs to be courtmartialed. This is the desert. Hording water, even if it's "his" flies in the face of even the simplest human decency.

And dies a cooerced baptism even count? I mean, doesn't God know?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Apr 9th, 2003, 09:30 PM       
That is seriously fucking low. I wonder what Ronnie thinks of all this. Do you suppose he'd "like to see more of this sort of thing"?
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 06:50 AM       
I think that story is fairly fake.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 07:12 AM       
Well, I guess you and the story have a lot in common then!
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #11  
The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
Mocker
The_Rorschach's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WestPac
The_Rorschach is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 07:24 AM       
I'm enjoying the irony actually.

This is as much an isolated incident as the banner proclaiming "We only support soldiers who shoot their lieutenants" (hope I didn't mangle that too badly). It is no more a reflection on Christianity than it is on the Army, possessing no more validity than the aforementioned banner. I hope you all can see the similarities between the two threads yourselves. I'm certain Punkgrrrl will agree, they are both examples of fucked up people, not fucked up ideals or institutions. I only cite here since she seemed at least partially objective.

"Only by bringing problems to the spotlight can we hope to rectify them. "

Yes Jen, you're quite correct. But I think what Italian was trying to drive home was the fact that all you've done, consistantly, is point out problems without offering any input or insight as to what can be done and sometimes it does come across as crowing. None of us are blind to the problems, but seeing them is the easy part. Correcting them is the difficulty. I took some time off my Spring break getting signatures for a petition which would call for a wartime profiteering counsel to look into administrative deals between Halliburton and the Federal Government. I was pleased to read in the paper today that senate Democrats have called for such an investigation. (Star Bulletin, today, but not in their online edition unfortunately, so no link - I subscribe)

I doubt the few thousand signatures I managed to scrape up did anything, Hawaii's Inouye wasn't mentioned in the article, but thats not the point. Kevin toils, often thanklessly, on behalf of the Campus Green and the Green party in general taking time out of his social life and studies in order to be an active member of his community. Don't read this as an attack, because its not, just an attempt to explain the frustration some people might find in your posts. If you seriously want to "rectify" society's problems, you have to act as well as talk.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 10:22 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
I think that story is fairly fake.
The Associated Press and the Miami Herald are both reliable news sources. Sorry if it gets you upset Ronnie, but not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a good person. Its truth.

Say Ror, perhaps you should try www.thepetitionsite.com ? You set up a petition, and people sign it via the internet. (I've signed before and its legit. I've even recieved letters in reply.)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 12:38 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Sorry if it gets you upset Ronnie, but not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a good person. Its truth.
No need to point that out, Jeanette. I believe Ronnie has probably encountered mirrors before.
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #14  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 12:53 PM       
Shach is fairly correct that this Chaplains actions nd the protest sign about fragging are analagous (unless you want to take into account that words on a sign don't deprive a hot, filthy, thirsty soldier of water).

I don't draw any conclusions about Christians or Christianity from on Chaplains bad behavior. I'd just like to see him personally face court martial and let Justice take its course. As opposed to having an MP shoot rubber bullets into his face which only an idiot would call justice.

Nalds, do you think this article is fake as in entirely fabricated, or is it just hasty reporting hastily posted, like your WMD article? Do you think Jeanette meant anything by posting it, or was she just 'bringing the news'?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 01:37 PM       
Correct me if I am wrong but:

A) That isn't "his" water, it is the Army's water. Unless he was given direct orders to reserve that water from another purpose( and it better be damn good) he can't hord it

B) His job as chaplain is to give comfort and aid to the troops, no matter what their faith.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 10th, 2003, 06:19 PM       
Hence, a court marshal!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Zebra 3 Zebra 3 is offline
Striped Tomato
Zebra 3's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bay City
Zebra 3 is probably a spambot
Old Apr 11th, 2003, 12:35 AM        What's Wrong with this Picture?
:/ - Hmmm, thirsty armed soldiers in the middle of a desert being denied water by some religious nutcase.
__________________
'Huuutch!' - Starsky
Reply With Quote
  #18  
FS FS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fribbulus Xax
FS is probably a spambot
Old Apr 11th, 2003, 05:26 AM       
....yes, and?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Apr 11th, 2003, 12:26 PM       
Here's the latest on it:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...on/5607432.htm

Posted on Fri, Apr. 11, 2003

Army probing chaplain report
Religious coercion of soldiers alleged

BY TONY PUGH AND KEN GARFIELD
tpugh@krwashington.com

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army Office of the Chief of Chaplains is checking into a report by Herald staff writer Meg Laughlin that an Army chaplain in Iraq withheld clean bathing water from U.S. soldiers who did not first agree to hear a sermon and be baptized.

The allegation against Chaplain Josh Llano, 32, of Houston, has drawn heated responses from religious, civil libertarian and atheist groups who say the practice amounts to religious coercion. Army officials said that so far their investigation hasn't shown that to be true.

''Neither the Army nor the Army Chief of Chaplains approves of religious coercion, but reports we've gotten indicate that's not what this was at all,'' said Pentagon spokeswoman Martha Rudd, who added that there was plenty of additional water available to soldiers at that camp.

``We don't have any information at this time that the chaplain was coercing anyone. But we're still looking into it.''

Army Chief of Chaplains Gaylord Gunhus said he believes Llano was simply joking with soldiers of the V Corps combat support system at Camp Bushmaster near Najaf.

''I have confidence in my chaplains,'' Gunhus said from the Pentagon. ``It had nothing to do with keeping people from having water or anything at all. Speculation is, he was jesting with a bunch of folks.''

Llano, a Southern Baptist, recently told Laughlin that he makes soldiers sit through a 90-minute sermon and then take part in baptismal services in a 500-gallon container used only for baptisms. Rudd said many of the soldiers had gone up to 10 days without a shower.

In the story, Llano said the soldiers willingly agreed to his terms. Said Llano in the story: ``It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized.''

Llano could not be reached for comment on Thursday. But Rudd said Llano told investigators he does not recall making those statements. She said Llano's commanders have denied the water-for-baptism allegations. Laughlin noted that she was not alone when Llano made the statements.

But the media accounts have set off a controversy. Military chaplains are supposed to provide services when asked -- and with no conditions, said Edd Doerr, executive director of Americans for Religious Liberty, a multifaith group in Washington that advocates for separation of church and state. Requiring soldiers to be baptized in exchange for water ignores their right to religious freedom, Doerr said.

Llano is trying to ''lure potential converts and he is preying on vulnerable, stressed-out military men and women,'' to do so, according to a statement by Kathleen Johnson, military director for American Atheists, a civil rights advocacy group in Parsippany, N.J.

Llano was an Army drill sergeant before he was ordained and served as a military chaplain through the Southern Baptist Convention's North American Mission Board in Alpharetta, Ga. The convention has 320 military chaplains serving in the Middle East.

North American Mission Board Vice President John Yarbrough said he will wait to see what the Army finds before responding. The options include counseling Llano or revoking his endorsement to serve as a military chaplain through the Southern Baptist Convention.

While not confirming whether Llano erred, Yarbrough said: ``This is very atypical of the way our chaplains would function.''
-30-
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Spectre X Spectre X is offline
Rating: Yes.
Spectre X's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dutchland
Spectre X is probably a spambot
Old Apr 11th, 2003, 12:49 PM       
one of the guys names was "Gaylord"?

anyhoo, I personally think that that guy should be shot to pieces with an M-60 by one of the thirsty soldiers, while the others go into the water.

no, not really, I think he should be charged with racism, and be courtmarshalled (is that how you spell it?) so I'm gonna have to go with Max on this one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
everybody knows that pterodactyls hate the screech of a guitar :o
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:01 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.