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  #26  
10,000 Volt Ghost 10,000 Volt Ghost is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 01:43 PM       
I like your summary of T3. Asshole.
J/K.
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  #27  
MetalMilitia MetalMilitia is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 01:49 PM       
That's all I could remember about it tbh. That and the fact Arnie destroys a car for some reason.
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  #28  
10,000 Volt Ghost 10,000 Volt Ghost is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 01:55 PM       
I was expecting for you to mention the terminators beating the shit out of each other in the restroom. Integral to the storyline.
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  #29  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 05:32 PM       
all of that stuff about time only matters if you believe that time can be changed ;/

obviously, in the ORIGINAL TIME LINE. AS IN, AFTER RESSE WAS SUPPOSED TO COME BACK LETS PRETEND IT DIDNT HAPPEN. OK SO SARAH CONNOR DOESNT GET KNOCKED UP BY THAT GUY. AND SHE DOESNT HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCES. And if resse never went back, then the terminator never went back -- since reeses goal was to stop the terminator. If the terminator never went back, it was probably because john connor never would've been born... i dunno. If john connor never would've been born, then the terminator wouldn't have gone back. If the terminator hadn't have gone back, then there must not have been a skynet that was at war with the humans which were led by john connor. Therefore, the terminator never would've been able to travel back and time (to cause the changed time line which would allow his existence) and you aren't proposing a CHANGED universe but that an ALTERNATE DIMENSION WITH A DIFFERENT TIMELINE COLLIDED INTO OURS.

see the entire problem is that you forget that in the original timeline IN THE FUTURE (THERE WAS A FUTURE IN THE ORIGINAL TIMELINE) john connor already existed and was fighting against the terminators and the terminators went back in time in order to kill him and sent resse back in time which according to your theory is what changed time but how can it have "changed time," if in your theory of change it required the preexistence of the changed time line? ;\

id say you're confusing cause with effect
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  #30  
MetalMilitia MetalMilitia is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 06:04 PM       
Nope, that's what I was saying. It doesn't change time it starts a new time line independent from the last. That way you don't have the whole Back to the Future thing where Marty would disappear from the photograph because he did something in the past. The Terminator would still have come back but on the new time line he may not necessarily still exist in the future in his same exact form... but that doesn't matter because he came from a separate time line thus having no effect on the new one.

The main mistake I made was here:

"Kyle tells Sarah about judgement day he is referring to his own time line and not the parent time line in which it may not have occurred for many more years."

Which does necessitate a pre-determined future and doesn't really make any sense.

Here is an updated diagram that sucks less (timetravels in red):

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  #31  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 06:16 PM       
You don't understand that in the parent timeline the terminator came back in time and so did resse somehow. I guess because you think of linear time or something. In the parent timeline john connor already existed and sent his father back in time. I kind of thought part of what was so crazy was that he would've known he was sending his father back in time.
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  #32  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 06:20 PM       
really there's nothing in the new movies that isn't outside of the original timeline ;/ in the original timeline the world was all fucked up (nuclear explosions) skynet existed and so did john connor so nothing changed.
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  #33  
MetalMilitia MetalMilitia is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:01 PM       
Remember, "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

Of course Skynet always becomes self aware but in order to avoid having people randomely cease to exist it needs to split.
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  #34  
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:09 PM       
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The Terminator would still have come back but on the new time line he may not necessarily still exist in the future in his same exact form
How is this not marty mcfly disappearing and then reappearing wearing cooler clothes?
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  #35  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:12 PM       
HOW CAN YOU COME FROM A SEPERATE TIMELINE IDONT GET HWO MORE THAN ONE TIMELINE CAN EXIST WITHOUT PEOPLE APPEARING AND DISAPPEARING
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  #36  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:14 PM       
SORRY I DONT BELIEVE IN PARADOXES OR "SEPERATE TIME LINES"

WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF THE DIFFERENT TIME LINES? IT MAKES NO SENSE
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  #37  
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:16 PM       
Time Trousers are very confusing.
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  #38  
MetalMilitia MetalMilitia is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 07:26 PM       
You can timetravel back in your own time line but once some variable changes it must split to a new one. From then on you can only travel back along this new time line.
Because this new time line didn't exist when the first time traveller came back it didn't affect it but in subsequent time travels the traveller would have to follow the new time line.
Yes this makes sense. That's how it works.

Back to the Future physics are slightly different and far beyond the scope of my diagram.
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  #39  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 08:00 PM       
I think the one we're getting at is the one where each time anything random happens a new timeline is created. There's a timeline where Bob Dole became President, where Napolean conquered Russia, and even a different one for each variation a hydrogen atom may spin. So under this theory there is no such thing as a paradox. You could go back in time and kill yourself and you would not disappear or destroy the universe. Think of the Star Trek episodes "Mirror, Mirror" or "In The Mirror Darkly".
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  #40  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 08:40 PM       
Yea but then how come the future always stays the same? They kept sending back robots to destroy connor when really the timeline had already been altered he had been born at a different time and by a different person then in the original tmeline. I mean, no offense, but if you change who's parents somebody has and the details of their existence they are going to be different people.
remember when marty mcfly was gonna disappear cause his mom was gonna fuck BIFF? Yea.

I think that time never changes and that everything that happens is a part of time. If you travel back in time and change time, nothing will change out of the ordinary because time was already changed by you in the past.
Resse was always John Connors father and John Connor always knew resse was his father, and john connor knew that he would have to send him back his whole life.
he's jesus
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  #41  
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Old Feb 9th, 2009, 01:30 AM       
What in the fuck?! I post something about terminator, I come back the next day to find people arguing about the space-time continuum?

Oh god, what have I done!? I TAKE IT ALL BACK!
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  #42  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 9th, 2009, 03:20 AM       
OMG DISCUSSION ON A MESSAGE BOARD
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  #43  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 11:50 AM       
I think in Terminator time travel works more like it does in The Time Machine. The guys girlfriend dies so he makes a time machine. He goes back in time to save her and he does save her from one death only watch her die another way. While he was able to change how she died, he was unable to change that she died. In Terminator they are able to change how and when judgment day comes but they cant change that it does come. With robots and people coming back in time in the first movie they changed how and when John came into the world but were unable to change the fact that he did.
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  #44  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM       
And the "There's no fate but the fate we make." Isnt written in stone anywhere in Terminator. Its only something the humans tell themselves to make them feel better.
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  #45  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 02:24 PM       
I guess I'm just too logical or something ;]

For example I don't get how if the timeline changes everytime how in the future they know that there's a terminator. They send the terminator, the timeline CHANGES COMPLETELY AS HAS BEEN ARGUED -- how do they know that there is a terminator in the past and to send resse? And where the time machine is? I mean what the hell that doesn't even make sense. How are they somehow aware of this plot while being in a completely different timeline? DO THE MEMORIES MERGE?
REally, the very second they sent the first terminator back connor should've been dead and the world should've been completely fucked. Obviously, the timeline doesn't change that much.
Also I think part of what's interesting about John Connor's character is that he probably learns how to be a SUPER FUTURE LEADER from all the experiences he has in the second and third one, along with learning from his mom (who learned partly from resse). I think that without that he might have just been a regular jackoff like everybody else.

POK BUT IM GONA STOP ARGUING ABOUT THIS CAUSE OF HOW PATHETIC IT IS
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  #46  
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 02:49 PM       
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  #47  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 02:56 PM       
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  #48  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 03:27 PM       
LOL HILARIOUS
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  #49  
electric ninja electric ninja is offline
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Old Feb 11th, 2009, 01:35 AM       
He's right, it is just a movie. So I gess the time travel rules don't have to make complete sense, the film makers are going to do what's most entertaining, not what's most logical.
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  #50  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 11th, 2009, 03:19 AM       
alright guys sorry for talking about something more than once

please just leave me alone ok thanks
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