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  #102  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:19 AM       
We need an emoticon of this gent with his arms outstretched and his open palms pointing towards the sky. Possibly called 'Ma, what are they givin' me?'

Pentegarn I'm not interested in this argument anymore. I've already expressed my thoughts and your disagreement isn't going to change them.



[Kitsa's article=QUOTE]It’s too frightening to make sense of. The world’s most-wanted terrorist. A man who triggered the longest war in American
history.[/quote]
Vietnam?
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  #103  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:21 AM       
Wow. Fucked that quote. Thanks edit capabilities.
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  #104  
Kitsa Kitsa is offline
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Old May 6th, 2011, 05:46 PM       
I guess before even going into the article, I was like "No shit they knew he was there." How could they not know?

I know that Benazir Bhutto thought he was dead way back in '07, but when I go back for facts it's all hashed up in a conspiracy theorist frenzy. Apparently he outlived her
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  #105  
Evil Robot II Evil Robot II is offline
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Old May 7th, 2011, 02:02 AM       
How do we know BL was a reaal person and not just made up by Nick
Rockeffelor?
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  #106  
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Old May 7th, 2011, 03:24 PM       
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Originally Posted by Kitsa View Post
I guess before even going into the article, I was like "No shit they knew he was there." How could they not know?

I know that Benazir Bhutto thought he was dead way back in '07, but when I go back for facts it's all hashed up in a conspiracy theorist frenzy. Apparently he outlived her
He was also supposed to be on dialysis but no evidence of such was found in his compound, although it appears that Bin Laden sufferd from Sleep Apnea as one of the videos clearly shows a CPAP machine. My older brother is a sleep technician and quickly pointed that one out to me.
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  #107  
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Old May 7th, 2011, 03:28 PM       
I would have trouble sleeping too if I was the most wanted man in the world.
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  #108  
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Old May 7th, 2011, 07:31 PM       
CPAPs are loud as fuck.
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  #109  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 09:49 AM       
didn't read the whole thread, but lol what would the point have been in giving him a trial? would he have presented some shocking evidence to prove his innocence?

this isn't 'where in the world is carmen sandiego'
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  #110  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 8th, 2011, 10:31 AM       
No, but mostly there would have been some evidence to prove his guilt in a recognised court of law, and also executing people on the spot is not the 'justice' of a nation that pretends to care about human rights.



As a bonus, his capture could also have been proven beyond reasonable doubt.
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  #111  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 02:07 PM       
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No, but mostly there would have been some evidence to prove his guilt in a recognised court of law, and also executing people on the spot is not the 'justice' of a nation that pretends to care about human rights.

Uh, yes it is. Most Americans are fine with this and care little of what the rest of the world thinks on this issue.
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  #112  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 02:11 PM       
If you care so much about his trial, maybe your country should have looked for him?
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  #113  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 8th, 2011, 04:20 PM       
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Uh, yes it is. Most Americans are fine with this and care little of what the rest of the world thinks on this issue.
How about it's the justice of a nation who's government cares little of what the world thinks on the issue?

Tadao; that cuts deep
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  #114  
Pentegarn Pentegarn is offline
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Old May 8th, 2011, 05:22 PM       
Dear Zhukov,

You are right, a fair trial always comes out the way it should. Justice always prevails in a court of law.

Warmest regards,

OJ Simpson's murder trial
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  #115  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 05:37 PM       
I just don't see why we Americans are so cool with no explanation of what went down. I want to know if Osama was killed in self defense. Our Seals are trained to do exactly what we tell them to do, so a bullet in his head was most likely ordered. From what I understand with what little has been said, it was not needed. I'd rather we took him alive and killed him in public. It works. Humans have been doing that since forever.
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  #116  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 06:21 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentegarn View Post
Dear Zhukov,

You are right, a fair trial always comes out the way it should. Justice always prevails in a court of law.

Warmest regards,

OJ Simpson's murder trial
Dear Zhukov and Pentegarn:

Sometimes a trial does provide justice. And sometimes the guilty party is sentenced to death. Carrying out the sentence, however, is sometimes not at all easy or straightforward, and you may be left with an incredibly long and drawn out circus.

Love, Mumia Abu-Jamal
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  #117  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 06:24 PM       
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didn't read the whole thread, but lol what would the point have been in giving him a trial? would he have presented some shocking evidence to prove his innocence?
Innocent until proven guilty. Due process. othersuchlegalterms. What if Osama never even did that shit and the government set him up? Its not like we really have any evidence that he perpetrated 9/11 anyway. What is it video evidence? or again what if that dude wasn't even actually osama?

or what if he would've sold out every other terrorist organization in the world or knew about north koreas plot with the actors guild or whaever it was called.
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  #118  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 06:46 PM       
I'm guessing Bush made a deal with Osama to take the blame, the public is to helpless and needs a bad guy caught, Obama fakes a capture and kill, Osama gets a new face and a much deserved break.
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  #119  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 07:20 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
Dear Zhukov and Pentegarn:

Sometimes a trial does provide justice. And sometimes the guilty party is sentenced to death. Carrying out the sentence, however, is sometimes not at all easy or straightforward, and you may be left with an incredibly long and drawn out circus.

Love, Mumia Abu-Jamal
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  #120  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 08:57 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
I'm guessing Bush made a deal with Osama to take the blame, the public is to helpless and needs a bad guy caught, Obama fakes a capture and kill, Osama gets a new face and a much deserved break.
I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING!
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  #121  
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Old May 8th, 2011, 09:24 PM       
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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
How about it's the justice of a nation who's government cares little of what the world thinks on the issue?
Oops, forgot to mention government as well!

OB(gyn)L declared war 15 years ago, he got one, and now he's dead. I really don't see what the issue is here but since you will keep whining about a "fair trial" I guess on that issue I can say no one really gives a fuck what other countries think about it.
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  #122  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:51 AM       
Pentegarn: are you saying that if Osama had gotten a trial you are worried that he would have gotten off? Haha, I don't think so, but if he did and your trial is fair then, well, that's fair.

I don't think so though.


White Rat: You're right, few people in America give a fuck about Osama getting a trial, let alone a fair one. That doesn't make it right. It makes the situation a worrying one; your government can execute people on the spot and nobody cares. The most likely situation is that this isn't a one of special occasion, it's the precedent for the same thing happening again and again in the future.

Accused "terrorists" are already incarcerated indefinitely and subject to torture without their guilt being proven, and while many people around the world are outraged, it's still going on because not enough people in the US care about the rights of people that their government tells them are evil.

I do believe Osama was a terrorist, and certainly a criminal, but executing him on the spot prevents the other side of the 9/11 story (and other stuff) from being known, and it allows your government to pick and choose who it dishes out rights too.

I thought Americans were meant to be wary of 'big government'? Why do so many people stand idly by while the government gives itself more and more ways to control them?
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  #123  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 9th, 2011, 10:46 AM       
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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Accused "terrorists" are already incarcerated indefinitely and subject to torture without their guilt being proven, and while many people around the world are outraged, it's still going on because not enough people in the US care about the rights of people that their government tells them are evil.
Define "many". By any measure there are many in the States who feel the same way, but there are more groups of dissaffected, misinformed or mindless lemmings that will remain silent and let the goverment do what it wants. You probably have this problem in Australia too.

Quote:
I do believe Osama was a terrorist, and certainly a criminal, but executing him on the spot prevents the other side of the 9/11 story (and other stuff) from being known, and it allows your government to pick and choose who it dishes out rights too.
As others have pointed out, Wikileaks will probably have the video of the takedown posted on YouTube within a few months anyway, so what's the diff? Even so, this still will only be one version of the truth i.e. one viewpoint of the operation.

Quote:
I thought Americans were meant to be wary of 'big government'? Why do so many people stand idly by while the government gives itself more and more ways to control them?
See comment #1 above.

Damn. This discussion reminds me of something .... (F-)
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  #124  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 9th, 2011, 03:04 PM       
Well, video of them shooting him isn't going to explain in detail how he masterminded 9/11. I'm not saying that is the reason he shouldn't have been killed, I'm saying that is something that has been lost because of it.

I also don't mean to just be picking on the USA; if Australia was in the same position and it all went down the same way then I'd be surprised if his execution would arouse outrage from the majority of the population here either. I was impressed by the support of David Hicks (Australian held in Guantanamo Bay and tortured) but it was more the fact that he was a white Australian in trouble, and there is little support for other detainees.

There are 'many' people inside the US that would be unhappy about the incarceration and torture of "suspected" terrorists, I don't deny it.



Australians aren't wary of big government; they are just apathetic about everything unless it's Islam and Asians TAKING JOBS.
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  #125  
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Old May 9th, 2011, 03:10 PM       
There are things that can be controlled and things that can't. From what I see, the known things that can be controlled were handled with the utmost of secrecy for no credible reason.

That pisses me off.
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