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  #1  
Johnny Horton Johnny Horton is offline
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Old May 12th, 2003, 08:21 PM        Grey Lady Dumb
HaHaHAH!

The esteemed (by some) New York Times has published a front page apology for one of its (former) reporters.

The smug guy (only right) had been fabricating stories, quotes, etc. for the past four years, and passing it off (chumps) as "all the news that's fit to print."

But when I think about it, did the Times really have to print a front page article to let us know it's been hustling fiction for lo these many years? Hardly.

And the good news here is that the plagiarist/liar is black. That is to say, of African descent, descent being the operative word. I consider it good news for the Afro-American community who will name have new reason to scream racism, muhfug.

If it had not been for the shame of slavery and the on-going and systemic racism so everlastingly ubiquitous in American society, the reporter would never have had to resort to stealing and lying. The Whitey community should be ashamed of themselves for forcing this innocent victim into his hopeless situation. It's enough to make a person just go out in the parkin' lot and just thoi' up ever-whar.

Perhaps he can be nominated for a Pulitzer prize for best objective fiction. But he probably won't be, yet another indication of the pervasive racism that blacks must contend with, day after day. As the insane colonel once said, "The horror. The horror."
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theapportioner theapportioner is offline
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Old May 12th, 2003, 09:47 PM       
Must take you a while to bold and italicize all those words.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old May 12th, 2003, 10:45 PM       
I'd believe the Weekly World News before I would believe the New York Times.

Wow, the NYT fabricated stories?!? Must be a part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy...

*hides in darkness*
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Old May 13th, 2003, 10:53 AM       
I follow what your saying. Your right, the best course of action would be to NOT apologize. They could have said, for instance:

"That was the intelligence we had. We acted on it"

You know, the way Colin Powell did when the documents that 'proved' Iraq was enriching Uranium were forgeries that could have been denbunked by a twelve year old using Google?

And the good news here is that the plagiarist/liar is black. That is to say, of African descent, descent being the operative word. I consider it good news for the Republican community who will now have new reason to scream 'high tech lynching of an Upiity Negro' Or they would if the media felt justifying war with poorly forged documents was a sexy enough story to run with.

If it had not been for the shame of slavery and the on-going and systemic racism so everlastingly ubiquitous in American society, the administration would never have would never have had to resort to hiring tokens. The Republican community should be ashamed of themselves for forcing this innocent victim into his hopeless situation. It's enough to make a person just go out in the parkin' lot and just thoi' up ever-whar.
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Old May 13th, 2003, 12:07 PM       
Max, you are a fucking windbag. Why can't you just admit that your precious news sorce turned out to be full of shit? Be a man.

Wow. I just asked Max to be a man. I apologize.
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Old May 13th, 2003, 01:26 PM       
How can I take seriously the questions asked by a self confessed liar(you) about another liar on the staff of the Times? You should admire Mr. Blair, as he was far more succseful liar prior to be caught, than say, you.

I am happy to admit the NYT (refered to as 'my precious news source') had a plagarit and liar on it's staff. Wether this makes them 'full' of shit is hard to say. It certainly discredits all the articles written by Jayson Blair (Or 'the smug guy' as Uber researcher Johnny Horton calls him) and any articles uing Blair as a source. re you suggesting that plagerism is an actual policy at the Times?
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Old May 13th, 2003, 01:55 PM       
jwb is a simpleton enabler, those that generalize on stereotypical representations and look for others doing the same must ignore a lot of reality that disproves the generalizations..

there are folks that call 'racism' too quickly
there are folks that call reverse racism too quickly
they are both vocal minorities.. it's up to the rest of us to maintain sanity in a world of injustice. if we let these stereotypical generalizations get the better of us we are spiraling down into degeneracy which is exactly what the bush administration wants.. don't think, don't reason, get mad, fight amongst yerselves, blame the black, blame the hispanics, blame the whites etc. such that constructive dialog doesnt happen.. so that we resort to blame games and hate crimes then administration is justified in taking away our constitutional rights.

the NYTimes owned up to the falsehoods.. are the other papers ethical enough to do the same on their front page? i wonder. plagarism, fabrications, etc. are printed all the time.. many are never caught.. there are liers and cheaters in every business, sheesh.
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Johnny Horton Johnny Horton is offline
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Old May 13th, 2003, 08:32 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
I follow what your saying. Your right, the best course of action would be to NOT apologize. They could have said, for instance:

"That was the intelligence we had. We acted on it"

You know, the way Colin Powell did when the documents that 'proved' Iraq was enriching Uranium were forgeries that could have been denbunked by a twelve year old using Google?

And the good news here is that the plagiarist/liar is black. That is to say, of African descent, descent being the operative word. I consider it good news for the Republican community who will now have new reason to scream 'high tech lynching of an Upiity Negro' Or they would if the media felt justifying war with poorly forged documents was a sexy enough story to run with.

If it had not been for the shame of slavery and the on-going and systemic racism so everlastingly ubiquitous in American society, the administration would never have would never have had to resort to hiring tokens. The Republican community should be ashamed of themselves for forcing this innocent victim into his hopeless situation. It's enough to make a person just go out in the parkin' lot and just thoi' up ever-whar.

I at first suspected you might have something to say. I was mistaken.

The latest on the NYT embarrassment is that the employment of a lying, stealing, incompetent black college dropout is "affirmative action backfiring." Apparently the plagiarist's boss, also black, could not bring himself to face the truth about his protégé, and applied the "Peter Principle", promoting the would-be reporter. (The fact that there are qualified Asians, Hispanics and Blacks for some odd reason does not register with the NYT hierarchy. Go figure.)
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theapportioner theapportioner is offline
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Old May 13th, 2003, 09:32 PM       
Do you even read the NYT on a regular basis?
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Old May 13th, 2003, 09:44 PM       
Journalistic fraud is a very serious matter, but I regard the outburst by Republicans as following a double-standard, and moreover, fundamentally stupid.

Here is a column by Safire, a conservative journalist of the Times.

_________________________________________


'Huge Black Eye'
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

ASHINGTON

Just about everyone at this newspaper is sick at heart at the way one Times reporter betrayed our readers and all of us with his sustained deceit and plagiarism.

The Times team investigating the lies of Jayson Blair — grimly front-paged and spread over four inside pages of yesterday's paper — found his phony interviews and faked articles "a low point in the 152-year history of the newspaper." The publisher called it "a huge black eye."

How could this happen at the most rigorously edited newspaper in the world? We had plenty of warning: his 50-plus corrections in less than four years as a reporter, his evasion of questions about his whereabouts, complaints from colleagues.

Apparently this 27-year-old was given too many second chances by editors eager for this ambitious black journalist to succeed. As he moved to more responsible assignments, some editors failed to pass along assessments of his past shortcomings while others felt the need to protect the confidentiality of his troubles. Result: the con artist gamed a system that celebrates diversity and opportunity.

The Times's executive editor, Howell Raines, is determined to get right with readers by letting the "terrible mistake" be examined in excruciating detail. In addition to this opposite of cover-up, he assigned another newsroom group to come up with ways to prevent another failure of communication among our editors, the most expert of communicators.

What's the reaction in Washington, where — we now know — the fraudulent reporter came down to stain The Times's coverage of last year's attacks by snipers?

Liberals down here, who only last week had been gleeful at the revelation of conservative Bill Bennett's high-rolling gambling habit, are rendered glum by this embarrassment of the newspaper whose editorial policy they favor. But now my right-wing friends are suddenly up to their hips in their own Schadenfreude. (That's the German word for "the guilty pleasure one secretly takes in another's suffering.")

First comes the culture war. Some of my ideological soulmates say: See? There goes the prestigious New York Times, world paragon of accuracy, newspaper of record, winner of far more Pulitzer prizes than anybody — suckered for years by one cunning kid. About time those snobby Eastern elitists, twisting the news to fit their prejudices, got their comeuppance.

Then to the affirmative-action angle: See what happens, they taunt, when you treat a minority employee with kid gloves, promoting him when he deserves to be fired? Oh, we know your editors insist that "diversity" had nothing to do with it. But remember what Senator Dale Bumpers said about our impeachment of Clinton: "When you hear somebody say, `This is not about sex' — it's about sex." This is about diversity backfiring.

Here's my reply to their Kulturkampf: For exactly 30 years, I have been supported handsomely for disagreeing with The Times's editorial page, which is dovish on defense, leftist on economics and (with the exception of civil liberties) resolutely wrongheaded. Never have I been silenced, and conservative thinkers have an ever-fairer shake on the Op-Ed page.

As for news coverage being influenced by editorial policy, I evoke the name of my predecessor: that's a Krock. On occasion, a leftist slant on a story slips through the backfield, but with conservatives boring from within and fulminating from without, the news side soon straightens itself out. What is "fit to print" is the truth as straight as we can tell it, which is why Times people are so furious at this galling breach.

Now about the supposed cost of diversity: A newspaper is free to come down on the side of giving black journalists a break if its owners and editors so choose. What's more, this media world would also benefit from more Hispanics and Asians coming up faster.

To the 375 Times reporters who make up the greatest assemblage of talent and enterprise in the field of gathering and writing the news, I submit this hard line:

Self-examination is healthy but self-absorption is not; self-correction is a winner but self-flagellation is a sure loser. Let us slap a metaphoric cold steak over our huge black eye and learn from this dismaying example — so that other journalists in the nation and around the world can continue to learn from ours.
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theapportioner theapportioner is offline
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Old May 13th, 2003, 09:50 PM       
Here are letters to the editor, published on the front page of the online version of the NY Times. Would I expect these letters to be published in say, the Post? Unlikely.

__________________________________________________ __

Betrayal of Trust: The Jayson Blair Scandal (6 Letters)
to the Editor:

Re "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception" (front page, May 11):

I have just finished reading your lengthy coverage of Jayson Blair's fabrications. You go into great detail in recreating the facts, but you miss the mark on management's taking responsibility for the situation.

I, for one, expect more out of our government, out of business leaders and out of your editors. Jayson Blair should have been shut down and fired. Your article reflects a serious case of denial. I am very disappointed.
JOHN STARK
Palm City, Fla., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

Regarding the Jayson Blair debacle ("Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception," front page, May 11), when I was a child, my mom gave me a book called "Page One." The book contained The New York Times's front page from major news events.

As a child, I counted "Page One" among my favorite books. I believed every word of what I read. But now everything has changed.

Why did you spoil the special trust you have with millions of readers? You are the pre-eminent news organization in the world, yet you gave extra chances and promotions to someone who did not deserve them.

I hope that you haven't destroyed your integrity because of political correctness. If you have, you should admit it and take steps to make sure that it never happens again.
STEPHEN SILVIA
Providence, R.I., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

While I disagree with virtually every editorial position that The New York Times takes and the way it covers many of its stories, I must grudgingly commend you on your handling of the Jayson Blair affair (front page, May 11).

Instead of covering it up or playing it down, you investigated the matter and put your findings on the first page for all to see.

That is the American way. I salute you. GEORGE RATHER
Spring, Tex., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

What an unfortunate reality ("Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception," front page, May 11). One long-festering bad apple does diminish the reputation of The New York Times.

As a lifelong reader of The Times, I must say it will take a long time for me to so readily receive its nurture again. RICHARD D. KIRK
Wyckoff, N.J., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

As a 42-year-old black man, currently with The Associated Press, in the early stages of a career in journalism, and aspiring to be a reporter on a major national desk, I was hurt to read that the human frailty of another journalist overwhelmed his integrity and ethics, bringing shame on us all (front page, May 11). The abundance of real news and genuine facts makes it unnecessary to fabricate either.

Skepticism is one of the qualities that enable a journalist to develop accurate copy. Skepticism leads to questions that get beneath the surface to reveal the facts. Skepticism can preserve the integrity of the newsroom as well as it preserves the integrity of a story.

Now, the actions of one have wounded and marked us all. We will heal. Editors and management for The New York Times will revisit communication and evaluation processes. Jayson Blair must examine his own conscience. In the end, we must go with our gut and our instinct.

Each reporter must be the keeper of the other. The integrity of our profession demands no less.
DARREN JOSEPH ELZIE
Hackensack, N.J., May 11, 2003



To the Editor:

Re "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception" (front page, May 11):

I am a rookie reporter for a small daily newspaper in southwestern New Hampshire, and I was livid after reading about Jayson Blair's deceit.

I don't understand why no one checked to be sure that Jayson Blair graduated from the University of Maryland.

I don't understand how a note from a top editor suggesting that Mr. Blair be removed was given little or no attention. But most of all, I don't understand why the paper that is supposed to be the best of them all kept forgiving mistake after mistake, suggesting that he was young but promising.

I am not perfect and have made my share of mistakes. But I can count on my hands alone the number of corrections printed for articles that I wrote since I started last August, and still have a few fingers left over.

I do not say this to gloat. My paper expects me to write regularly, but first to write accurately. It forgives corrections the first few months. It is a lot less forgiving after six months on the job. And that is how it should be.

While I respect The Times for publishing a front-page article about Jayson Blair's fabrications, the paper has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes, and that saddens me.
ERIKA COHEN
Keene, N.H., May 12, 2003
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 12:12 AM       
The reason this is scandalous is because, like Safire said, the Times hasa relatively strict editing process (doesn't make them perfect, but comparatively speaking, not bad).

I recall reading an article on foxnews.com about Ralph Nader and the PIRG organization. It was full of half-truths, not to mention blatant lies. Turns out, they picked this up from some bob's homepage dork who works for CFACT (a group dedicated to ending PIRG). Where is the integrity in that? Nobody cared that this was on the Fox site, because many people assume that they are crappy, tabloid, entertainment derived "journalism." The Times sets higher standards, thus, they get nailed hard for this.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 01:58 AM       
Kevin, is their mainstream proof that the FoxNews report was BS? Had they been lying for years when it pertains to a certain reporter/story/source? They are two different things. Stories get retracted all the time. It happens everywhere. So your self-contradulatory time about throwing an insult toward FoxNews' way should stop.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 02:04 AM       
Vince, you're right. I'm sure it was the ONLY example of poor discretion on the part of Foxnews.com. Somehow, despite the odds being fairly slim, I managed to come across it....

You don't need "mainstream" judgement for a piece of shit that doesn't even classify as journalism, especially since the source itself hardly classified as "mainstream."

I could go find the article, dismantle it piece by piece, and make you (once again) look silly. I however can't afford to do this, 1. due to Finals, and 2. due to the fact that logic falls on a deaf ear with you anyway.

EDIT: Here's a link to the article, which has not been retracted: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80925,00.html
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 07:45 AM       
Yep, Kevi, you are making me look bad every day!
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 11:44 AM       
It's a team effort.

I think this episode points to the aggregious state of Journalsim today. I've said repeatedly that journalism has become lazy and complacent. This is refelected both in a reporter who lies about leg work and editors who fail to fact check thoroughly. It's a systemic problem, and at least the Times acknowledges their part in it .

I'd hope that this most recent revalation of this sort of shit might spark journalistic reform across the board, but I'd hardly hold my breath.

If anyone thinks this is an isolated incident , I'd wager they thought Enron's accounting procedures were unique. Stuff like this doesn't happen in a vaccuum.
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Johnny Horton Johnny Horton is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 02:08 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranxer
jwb is a simpleton enabler, those that generalize on stereotypical representations and look for others doing the same must ignore a lot of reality that disproves the generalizations..

there are folks that call 'racism' too quickly
there are folks that call reverse racism too quickly
they are both vocal minorities.. it's up to the rest of us to maintain sanity in a world of injustice. if we let these stereotypical generalizations get the better of us we are spiraling down into degeneracy which is exactly what the bush administration wants.. don't think, don't reason, get mad, fight amongst yerselves, blame the black, blame the hispanics, blame the whites etc. such that constructive dialog doesnt happen.. so that we resort to blame games and hate crimes then administration is justified in taking away our constitutional rights.

the NYTimes owned up to the falsehoods.. are the other papers ethical enough to do the same on their front page? i wonder. plagarism, fabrications, etc. are printed all the time.. many are never caught.. there are liers and cheaters in every business, sheesh.

Calm down. You're hysterical.

So the Bush administration wants up to spiral down into degeneracy, eh? (After eight years of Slick Willy, this society can only spiral back up.)

Hey, you're not one of those goofy conspiracy nuts, are you? You know, one of those kooks who think the government has a sinister plan to rob us of our freedom and force us to eat oatmeal and cabbage?

Put the comic books away. Stop reading "People" magazine also. And "The Enquirer".



GENERALIZATION, noun: Huge truths, highly disconcerting to sociologists and others who've earned like degrees from community colleges, correspondence course, or equivalent universities.

HATRED, noun: Eternally firing the boilers of humankind, this powerful dynamic is surpassed only by the stupidity of those who think it can be overcome.
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Johnny Horton Johnny Horton is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 02:19 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by theapportioner
Here are letters to the editor, published on the front page of the online version of the NY Times. Would I expect these letters to be published in say, the Post? Unlikely.

__________________________________________________ __

Betrayal of Trust: The Jayson Blair Scandal (6 Letters)
to the Editor:

Re "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception" (front page, May 11):

I have just finished reading your lengthy coverage of Jayson Blair's fabrications. You go into great detail in recreating the facts, but you miss the mark on management's taking responsibility for the situation.

I, for one, expect more out of our government, out of business leaders and out of your editors. Jayson Blair should have been shut down and fired. Your article reflects a serious case of denial. I am very disappointed.
JOHN STARK
Palm City, Fla., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

Regarding the Jayson Blair debacle ("Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception," front page, May 11), when I was a child, my mom gave me a book called "Page One." The book contained The New York Times's front page from major news events.

As a child, I counted "Page One" among my favorite books. I believed every word of what I read. But now everything has changed.

Why did you spoil the special trust you have with millions of readers? You are the pre-eminent news organization in the world, yet you gave extra chances and promotions to someone who did not deserve them.

I hope that you haven't destroyed your integrity because of political correctness. If you have, you should admit it and take steps to make sure that it never happens again.
STEPHEN SILVIA
Providence, R.I., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

While I disagree with virtually every editorial position that The New York Times takes and the way it covers many of its stories, I must grudgingly commend you on your handling of the Jayson Blair affair (front page, May 11).

Instead of covering it up or playing it down, you investigated the matter and put your findings on the first page for all to see.

That is the American way. I salute you. GEORGE RATHER
Spring, Tex., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

What an unfortunate reality ("Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception," front page, May 11). One long-festering bad apple does diminish the reputation of The New York Times.

As a lifelong reader of The Times, I must say it will take a long time for me to so readily receive its nurture again. RICHARD D. KIRK
Wyckoff, N.J., May 11, 2003

To the Editor:

As a 42-year-old black man, currently with The Associated Press, in the early stages of a career in journalism, and aspiring to be a reporter on a major national desk, I was hurt to read that the human frailty of another journalist overwhelmed his integrity and ethics, bringing shame on us all (front page, May 11). The abundance of real news and genuine facts makes it unnecessary to fabricate either.

Skepticism is one of the qualities that enable a journalist to develop accurate copy. Skepticism leads to questions that get beneath the surface to reveal the facts. Skepticism can preserve the integrity of the newsroom as well as it preserves the integrity of a story.

Now, the actions of one have wounded and marked us all. We will heal. Editors and management for The New York Times will revisit communication and evaluation processes. Jayson Blair must examine his own conscience. In the end, we must go with our gut and our instinct.

Each reporter must be the keeper of the other. The integrity of our profession demands no less.
DARREN JOSEPH ELZIE
Hackensack, N.J., May 11, 2003



To the Editor:

Re "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception" (front page, May 11):

I am a rookie reporter for a small daily newspaper in southwestern New Hampshire, and I was livid after reading about Jayson Blair's deceit.

I don't understand why no one checked to be sure that Jayson Blair graduated from the University of Maryland.

I don't understand how a note from a top editor suggesting that Mr. Blair be removed was given little or no attention. But most of all, I don't understand why the paper that is supposed to be the best of them all kept forgiving mistake after mistake, suggesting that he was young but promising.

I am not perfect and have made my share of mistakes. But I can count on my hands alone the number of corrections printed for articles that I wrote since I started last August, and still have a few fingers left over.

I do not say this to gloat. My paper expects me to write regularly, but first to write accurately. It forgives corrections the first few months. It is a lot less forgiving after six months on the job. And that is how it should be.

While I respect The Times for publishing a front-page article about Jayson Blair's fabrications, the paper has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes, and that saddens me.
ERIKA COHEN
Keene, N.H., May 12, 2003

Whoa.

I've never heard so much simplistic, hokey, sentimental, lachrymose bunk in all my life.

Aw, is evweebody upset 'cause the poor New York Times made a boo-boo?

All this "I am wounded deeply" crap is enough to make me vomit. If those goddamn people want to worship, they should go to fucking church. The NYT is one of umpteen thousand newspapers. Nothing in it or about it is sacrosanct. It ain't holy. It's a fucking commerical enterprise, and anybody who is fool enough to devoutly hang on its every word doesn't have sense enough to be holding a newspaper in the first place.

This is all patently ludicrous. Boo-fuckin'-hoo.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old May 14th, 2003, 03:00 PM       
You're a jerk, Johnny Horton, but you got style. 'Lachrymose'. I gotta like that. Nice user pic too. A little bit of smoothin' and you'd be a real literary player. I like how you use 'ain't' and 'fucking' and 'sacrosanct' all in the same paragraph. You a educated outlaw, aintcha?

I gotta say though, Lachromocity making you want to Vomit is a bit simplistic. I hope tht ain't too Patently simplistic for you, but hell, it's the way I feel.

Idolatry for newspaper is indeed pedantry, but wanting to puke on account of it is passe, jejune, redundant and fucked.

You can put a turd in a prom dress, Johnny Horton, but that don't mean anyone is gonna dance with it.
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Old May 14th, 2003, 04:24 PM       
Speak for yourself, Burbank! This lady's spoken for!

Fancy a twirl, miss? I promise I won't gag too much.
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Old May 14th, 2003, 05:03 PM       
nice insults ya got for me hoarton, i've got lots to say about racism and classism maybe even a few other isms. let me know if it bothers ya. heeh.

as for being into conspiracy theory, i'm a bit amazed at how much conspiracy theory has flowed from the whitehouse! powel's speech with photo's a couple months back was an amazing report filled with conspiracy theory.. i don't think i can do much better at false acusations that they have. I've got lots of questions and even some acusations.. call it what you want, but i'm interested in the answers.

Quote:
you're not.. one of those kooks who think the government has a sinister plan to rob us of our freedom and force us to eat oatmeal and cabbage?
with regards to concepts such as these i'd like to differentiate between a government for/of/by the people, and a government run by corporate criminals.. i have a lot against corporate criminals such as bush, cheney, rummy, wolfo, and rice to name a few, when those criminals are in the government then we have the problem of the criminals making the rules.. that is we face in government today.
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