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  #51  
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 12:27 PM       
I KNEW W WOULDN'T LIE TO ME
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 12:35 PM       
I'm completely with you on the former though. That would assuredly help more in the long run but the latter is easier to dispense and see change with.

Change = something different as opposed to something better.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 12:36 PM       
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I don't see the concept of the United Nations performing acts like paving roads and building hospitals with actual foundations in poor countries to be so completely outrageous and mock worthy.
Oh, okay. That makes sense, you were just talking about run-of-the-mill aids packages, only more practical and hands-on than the usual liberal bullshit. Yeah, that would definitely be far more effective than the current policy of ignoring poverty-stricken areas. This was my mistake, it sounded like you were actually-
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impose martial law, and reconstruct the culture is obviously stuff your mind made up because you get jumpy and think colonialism when any country gets involved with another.
What? You want a governing body with no standing army to invade a country and impose martial law because it's a shithole? You do realize that there are LAWS, right? That have international implications? because they are INTERNATIONAL LAWS? No, of course you don't. That's just gibberish to you. Same with "standing army". You see United Nations forces on television and can't discern the difference, because you have the intellectual capacity of a twelve year old.

Reconstruct the culture? How? What's the goddamn plan? Whaddaya gonna do, give them suits? Enact Apharteid and import Dutchmen? Abduct children in the night and send them to English boarding schools, what? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

What, does your personal fantasy involve the sudden change in centuries of behavior and the mud peoples' newfound love for their white saviors? Wait, you do, because you made the point of specifically mentioning colonialism.

You don't understand human psychology, you don't even know what the word 'anthropology' means, you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 12:43 PM       
n/m
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 01:37 PM       
We should just draft all the Haitians and drop them off in Iraq and Afghanistan. They get food shelter and a job while we get more solders. Win win.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 02:47 PM       
It seems I heard that before, but the subject was illegal immigrants. I think the speaker was either Hannity, Coulter or O'Reilly.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 02:50 PM       
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 02:50 PM       
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Change = something different as opposed to something better.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 02:54 PM       
The Taliban has more to offer them than we do.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 02:57 PM       
I dunno, they're ripping up graves and holy sites in Somalia

WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELVES, GUYS
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 03:22 PM       
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That's all well and good, but without doctors, nurses and knowledgeable staff for the hospitals or engineers to maintain the roadways (and adequate security for both) we'll find that all our good intentions go for naught. Plus, if we do all the work, with our contractors and our equipment, then leave - what has changed really? We have a desperately poor society with a really good hospital and some cool roads. How long do you think that hospital or those roadways are going to be useful in that situation.

We're right now trying to do this in Iraq. How is that working out?

My point stands - teach the people to solve their own problems their own way. Give them the tools to allow them to make their own decisions about how to go about fixing their country. Knowledge is power.
Things like paved roads and hospitals that don't pile the dead in the hallways are things that might attract foreign investment which can lead to many jobs and opportunities for the people. And there are plenty of missionary doctors and nurses that I'm sure already worked in Haiti.

Also we didn't make the taliban in the 80s. They didn't exist in the 80s. The taliban formed out of the fundamentalists schools that the mujaheddin set up during soviett occupation.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 03:28 PM       
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This was my mistake, it sounded like you were actually-
What? You want a governing body with no standing army to invade a country and impose martial law because it's a shithole? You do realize that there are LAWS, right? That have international implications? because they are INTERNATIONAL LAWS? No, of course you don't. That's just gibberish to you. Same with "standing army". You see United Nations forces on television and can't discern the difference, because you have the intellectual capacity of a twelve year old.

Reconstruct the culture? How? What's the goddamn plan? Whaddaya gonna do, give them suits? Enact Apharteid and import Dutchmen? Abduct children in the night and send them to English boarding schools, what? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

What, does your personal fantasy involve the sudden change in centuries of behavior and the mud peoples' newfound love for their white saviors? Wait, you do, because you made the point of specifically mentioning colonialism.

You don't understand human psychology, you don't even know what the word 'anthropology' means, you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings.
No I think you are an idiot who can't read posts. I quoted the impose martial law and change culture and pointed out thats NOT what I meant and that you are jumping to the idea of colonialism when in reality the united nations could help poor countries(that are members) without doing either of those things. I know you love reading your posts but I don't so try to read mine correctly before going on a big boring rant.

Here this can be applied to you "You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about."you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings."

And good job calling haitians "mudpeople". I'm sure people here take your remarks much more seriously now. I can just imagine you misreading my earlier post and getting all excited that you get to response. OMG HE SAID MARTIAL LAW AND CHANGE THE CULTURE OMG WHAT AN IDIOT. To bad I suggested neither. It be nice if the politics section of this board wasn't filled with complete tools with way to much free time on their hands to make shitty jokes on a message board or with the inability to comprehend english. Its ok to have a disscussion with a differing opinion without thinking your of supreme intellect especially when your misreading the other persons opinion. GRisygus wins. he is smartest man on internet!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 03:33 PM       
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We should just draft all the Haitians and drop them off in Iraq and Afghanistan. They get food shelter and a job while we get more solders. Win win.
Like the Irish
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 03:42 PM       
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It seems I heard that before, but the subject was illegal immigrants. I think the speaker was either Hannity, Coulter or O'Reilly.
I think you are full of shit and I would humble myself to you if you proved me wrong with a link showing me that one of those three suggested that we take illegal immigrants and use them as soldiers in our wars. They've said worse I just don't believe they said this particular thing.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:20 PM       
You don't even know what you mean! You have no clue! You bring up this condescending prattle about how if other countries REALLY cared they would have walked in and "fixed" these countries before they were hit by disasters and asked for help. This is stupid.

HELPFUL NOTE:

If a country in no way asks for foreign help in running their country

And foreign countries decides that they will intervene anyway because this country is minding its business in the wrong way, with the intention of "fixing" that country

It is a territorial invasion! It is illegal! And you HAVE TO HAVE PEACEKEEPERS IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR CUTE LITTLE SOCIALLY-RENOVATING TASK FORCES FROM GETTING THEIR ASSES KICKED TO THE CURB

You are recommending that a government body intervenes. You are not mentioning private enterprises or charitable foundations. You mentioned the UNITED NATIONS.

COUNTRIES DO NOT WELCOME FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS TAKING OVER. I don't care if you don't think that you're talking about martial law and imperialism, you are. It is a necessity unless someone requires help. You are not taliking about "help".

You are talking the United Nations "fixing"

an entire country

without their consent.

I don't care WHAT hypothetical scenarios you bring up. "Shitholes" like Haiti, Jamaica, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, and Ethipia HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR FOREIGN BEAUROCRACIES TO MOVE PERSONNEL, MILITARY OR OTHERWISE, ONTO THEIR SOVERIEGN SOIL. They would FIGHT any such personnel. They would ARREST any such personnel. You cannot "fix" someone elses country without permission, and the only way to attempt it is through military force, which always fails. They never will ask for help unless an unseen natural disaster cripples their entire country. ONLY THEN is foreign intervention welcome.

If you had brought up private enterprises and charitable foundations working with the local government to improve conditions and initiate reform, your point of view would be VALID. It would also be redundant, as this is already happening in the real world.

You did not bring up private enterprises. You did not bring up charitable foundations. You didn't even bring up individuals. You certainly never, at any point, mentioned or cared about the willingness (and inevitable hostile reaction) of the local government being "fixed. You are discussing the UNITED NATIONS. You spouted off with a condescending, brainless comment about IF PEOPLE REALLY CARED and got dragged into an argument without ever thinking out your position properly


To reiterate:
-You discussed "fixing" a government, in particular governments that would NEVER cooperate
-Whether you believe that military force is required or not is irrelevant. Unless you are talking about a fantasy world where these governments WANT the United Nations to completely restructure and "fix" these same governments (which I believe you are), military force is required. It is also pointless, stupid, and morally questionable.
-The mention of the United Nations being the ones to magically "fix" "shitholes" remains retarded.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:37 PM       
Haiti never asked the UN for help before the earthquake? Your a fucking moron and is so set on being right you are ignoring facts and comparing poor Caribbean nations to poor countries in the middle east. Also your post is way to long so I def won't be reading it.


On 23 February 2004, the United Nations Security Council was convened at the request of CARICOM(The Caribbean Community (CARICOM)), is an organization of 15 Caribbean nations and dependencies. for the first time in four years to address the deteriorating situation in Haiti.

On 30 April 2004, MINUSTAH was established and given its mandate with a military component of up to 6,700 troops.

MINUSTAH, an acronym of the French translation, is a United Nationspeacekeeping mission in Haiti that has been in operation since 2004. The mission's military component is led by the Brazilian Army. The force commander is Brazilian. The current UN mission is authorized until October 15, 2010. The force is composed of 8,940 military personnel and 3,711 police, supported by an international civilian personnel, a local civilian staff and United Nations Volunteers.

In July the General Assembly authorized the financing of the mission with $200 million. which followed a donors' conference in Washington DC.

In September the interim president of Haiti, Boniface Alexandre, spoke to the United Nations General Assembly in support of MINUSTAH. Haiti giving their consent! Wow you were wrong and a total tool!


grisygus you seem to be an asshole who is intent on being right even though you don't have your facts right. So the haitians have been fighting the brazilian led militray and police forces in their country? Funny I never heard about that. Must of been lost in all the headlines about them arresting un personnel lol. your a fucking moron and I'm done with this thread so please spare everyone else and stop responding. good luck haiti
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:38 PM       
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Originally Posted by Ant10708 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
It seems I heard that before, but the subject was illegal immigrants. I think the speaker was either Hannity, Coulter or O'Reilly.
I think you are full of shit and I would humble myself to you if you proved me wrong with a link showing me that one of those three suggested that we take illegal immigrants and use them as soldiers in our wars. They've said worse I just don't believe they said this particular thing.


Boy! I said BOY! That was a JOKE son, a JOKE!

I promise to never try to inject humor in what is obviously a very serious discussion.
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Last edited by Colonel Flagg : Jan 22nd, 2010 at 04:39 PM. Reason: My apologies
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:45 PM       
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Boy! I said BOY! That was a JOKE son, a JOKE!

I promise to never try to inject humor in what is obviously a very serious discussion.
Like I said before it could of been true.Hannity and Coulter have said worse so I wasn't sure if I just missed this.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:48 PM       
You, missing a JOKE? Shut up!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:49 PM       
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Also we didn't make the taliban in the 80s. They didn't exist in the 80s. The taliban formed out of the fundamentalists schools that the mujaheddin set up during soviett occupation.
To the letter of the facts, you are correct, we did NOT make the Taliban. We DID, however, give aid, comfort and arms to the Mujaheddin, who DID give rise to the Taliban. But this is neither here nor there.

The point stands that, for better or worse, the government's idea of aid is, by and large, to do things FOR the impoverished and starving masses, rather than to help them subsist by giving them the EDUCATION they need to make a better life for THEMSELVES.

We are more likely to give them military advisors than we are to give them teachers and doctors. Look at Iraq - our main objective in educating the people there is to give them weapons and create a police force. That's the quick fix - anything else requires a lot of patience, something most governments are lacking.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:50 PM       
I know! I should just assume everyone is joking all the time on these boards even when discussing natural disasters on the politics forum. Silly me



I agree colonel flagg. However, don't you know that you aren't allowed to suggest solutions to the world's problems when discussing the world's problems! Come on!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:55 PM       
I still suggest turning it into Hawaii 2
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 05:02 PM       
BEST JOKE EVER! HAWAII2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 05:06 PM       
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Haiti never asked the UN for help before the earthquake? Your a fucking moron and is so set on being right you are ignoring facts and comparing poor Caribbean nations to poor countries in the middle east. Also your post is way to long so I def won't be reading it.


On 23 February 2004, the United Nations Security Council was convened at the request of CARICOM(The Caribbean Community (CARICOM)), is an organization of 15 Caribbean nations and dependencies. for the first time in four years to address the deteriorating situation in Haiti.
HAITI

WAS NOT ASKING FOR HELP

THEY WERE TRYING TO STOP HAITI FROM LEAVING, YOU SLOPPY CUNT

Quote:
On 30 April 2004, MINUSTAH was established and given its mandate with a military component of up to 6,700 troops.

MINUSTAH, an acronym of the French translation, is a United Nationspeacekeeping mission in Haiti that has been in operation since 2004. The mission's military component is led by the Brazilian Army. The force commander is Brazilian. The current UN mission is authorized until October 15, 2010. The force is composed of 8,940 military personnel and 3,711 police, supported by an international civilian personnel, a local civilian staff and United Nations Volunteers.

In July the General Assembly authorized the financing of the mission with $200 million. which followed a donors' conference in Washington DC.

In September the interim president of Haiti, Boniface Alexandre, spoke to the United Nations General Assembly in support of MINUSTAH. Haiti giving their consent! Wow you were wrong and a total tool!
So after all of this time of you being so full of RAGE that I was stupid enough to say that reconstruction would require military backing, and that would fail to solve the country's problems

You bring up the ironclad example that completely proves my point?

What in the blue blazes is wrong with you?

Quote:
grisygus you seem to be an asshole who is intent on being right even though you don't have your facts right. So the haitians have been fighting the brazilian led militray and police forces in their country? Funny I never heard about that. Must of been lost in all the headlines about them arresting un personnel lol. your a fucking moron and I'm done with this thread so please spare everyone else and stop responding. good luck haiti
Dawwww, shucks. Now tell us how you really feel.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 05:14 PM       
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BEST JOKE EVER! HAWAII2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is that a joke?

You think serious solutions are a joke, then you think jokes are serious.

I bet you use a fake disease to explain your social retardation.
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