Pentagon Releases Video of Plane Hitting Building on 9/11

[ranxer]

bwhaha... this latest will define the media outlets.. even fox (tv) doesn't know how to spin this yet the article(below) talks like it's more conclusive. watch the headlines change as analysis moves forward. strange that i havn't seen this story on any other outlet yet. fox news seems to have gotten the exclusive.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,195702,00.html
WASHINGTON — Conspiracy theorists may or may not be disappointed Tuesday when they see footage released from the Pentagon showing two angles of American Flight 77 hitting the western wall of the building on Sept. 11, 2001.

The Department of Justice is releasing the videotape after a Freedom of Information Act request by Judicial Watch, a government watchdog. The request was made to quiet claims by some that pictures from that day never showed an airplane, only the "alleged" impact of the plane. Those claims spawned theories that the U.S. government faked the crash at the Pentagon.

"We fought hard to obtain this video because we felt that it was very important to complete the public record with respect to the terrorist attacks of September 11," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Finally, we hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories involving American Airlines Flight 77. As always, our prayers remain with all those who suffered as a result of those murderous attacks."

One of the tapes is from a security camera that was used to produce five still shots on that day. That video, which takes pictures in half-second increments, shows the nose cone of the plane clearly entering the picture, then a blur and then a fireball.

conclusive? not.

[Ant10708]

We all know its just been tampered by the neo cons.

[ranxer]

now why would they do that?
why would they hold the video back if it was freakin inconclusive in the first place?!! damn it all, they said that they were going to release the footage that they abducted from the gas station nearby why didn't they release that too?

i think this stuff helps neither side at this moment. oh well.
course i havn't seen the actual footage yet anyway, just heard some opinions on it.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by ranxer

now why would they do that?
why would they hold the video back if it was freakin inconclusive in the first place?!! damn it all, they said that they were going to release the footage that they abducted from the gas station nearby why didn't they release that too?

Its a federal investigation. Its not uncommon for evidence to be held back from the media.

i think this stuff helps neither side at this moment.

Pictures of the plane approaching the Pentagon?

oh well.
course i havn't seen the actual footage yet anyway, just heard some opinions on it.

doesn't stop you from dismissing it.

[ranxer]

well blanco, i put my prejudices and problematic understandings up front.

blanco: Pictures of the plane approaching the Pentagon?

what plane?
what approach?

i don't see anything but a blur then a flash then flames then smoke.
why the hell would they hold that back??!

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by ranxer

well blanco, i put my prejudices and problematic understandings up front.

Problem is, you make no attempt to work around them.

blanco: Pictures of the plane approaching the Pentagon?

what plane?
what approach?

Yes, it is very blurry, but you see what can be described as the nose of a palne coming into the picture and the next frame has the explosion.

This is less plausable than a shirtless man in a gimp mask peering out a hole in one of the Towers?

i don't see anything but a blur then a flash then flames then smoke.

Because you don't want to.

why the hell would they hold that back??!

Federal investigation.

[Rez]

the one frame that somewhat shows what hit it doesn't look like a goddamn plane at all.

the problem is is that i consider any alternate theories as outlandish as they propose completely preposterous.

[ranxer]

so i've been trying to findthe video released and can't,
anyone got a link? news reported it was off some pentagon site but i can't find it. tv isnt covering it.. dang and i want to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Kulturkampf]

If it takes a single picture every .5 seconds and we are talking about an airplane traeling hundreds of miles per hour... What do you expect?

Honestly, I do not see where you are going with this.

I think if you are implying that the government launched a missile into the Pentagon, I do not even know what to say.

But instead of accepting the fact that you have a burden of proof on your side, you will say blurry photographs and video sequences equal justification.

What? You expect a camera with an extremely slow shutter speed to capture an airplane crashing into the Pentagon with precision?

[Immortal Goat]

Actually, I believe the burden of proof lies with the Government in this instance. We as citizens do not have access to all of the information about what happened that day. As such, we can only speculate, but never prove. It's the government's job to put all speculation to rest, and thus far, they have not released any definitive proof that they aren't lying to us.

The missile idea is just as plausible as the plane idea, simply because there is enough evidence to suggest that it was, in fact, not a plane, but nothing other than a missile could have caused that much damage. It's the government's job to show us something that inarguably shows us that it was a plane, or the conspiricy theories will continue.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

If it wasn't Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, than where did that plane go? Here is a list of the crew and passengers who died on that day.

Were they shot down by thie own government? If so, where'd that happen? Why didn't anybody see them go down? I'll bet their families might be interested in hearing this, ranxer and Geggy, you should get on it.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

The missile idea is just as plausible as the plane idea, simply because there is enough evidence to suggest that it was, in fact, not a plane, but nothing other than a missile could have caused that much damage.

So, you are saying a missile hit the pentagon?

What kind of missile? Where did it come from? What was its payload? How does the missile impact differ from a passanger liner? Where is the shrapnel?

It's the government's job to show us something that inarguably shows us that it was a plane, or the conspiricy theories will continue.

What did they do, ship in the wreckage? Grow it there on the lawn?

[Ant10708]

"The theorists do not believe eyewitnesses, physical evidence, engineering studies or even the claims of Osama Bin Laden, so it is unlikely that they will be convinced by grainy video frames. "

-BBC news

Immortal Goat you are wrong. There is more evidence it was a plane. Including eyewitness accounts and the fact that a plane and an entire list of passengers and crew members are unaccounted for. The only evidence I've ever seen that it was a missle was in a flash video.

[ranxer]

most eyewitnesses claim they saw a plane, some say it was american airlines 737, some say they saw a missle, some report a second plane, some report smelling cordite after the impact. i haven't made any conclusions about what hit the pentagon, i assume it was flight 77 but have read many oddities that make me question the official story.

1. why were the video tapes siezed and not released? what are they hiding? especially if it was poor quality.
2. why was the hole in the pentagon so small and go through so many rings?
3. what was under the blue tarp that was carried off by people at the crash site?
4. how did a plane that size make maneuvering turns and dive(reported by flight controllers) in a way that pilots say only a fighter jet could do?
5. where are the photos of what people say was pieces of the cockpit? why was there a fan jet engine part laying in the wreckage that could not be from a 737 but a much smaller plane?

the governments explanation is not good enough, we have been shown over and over that taking the word of this administration is a mistake, so we are left with questions and more questions.

i usually leave the pentagon strike alone but the release of the video images yesterday brought the subject up, i was hoping that the video would clear up some questions, so i'm really disappointed that they did not. WHY did they not release the footage from the gas station like fox was reporting they would??

and kevin, just because we dont have ironclad evidence of what really happened doesn't mean we can't say what we think didn't happen. showing the governments case is false does not require an alternate theory. um, but, some people reported flight 77 was lost from radar somewhere over cleveland i think, some say it landed and the passengers were taken off but these are hard to verify, i generally avoid these but the statements are out there.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by ranxer

and kevin, just because we dont have ironclad evidence of what really happened doesn't mean we can't say what we think didn't happen. showing the governments case is false does not require an alternate theory.

Okay, fair enough, but generally when questions like this arise, they then lead you to some logical conclusions, right? Otherwise, you're just a neurotic government hater, no?

If The U.S. government did X, then that could/would lead you to believe that they did it becasue of Y, right? Come on, don't tell me you don't have your own opinions as to why we shot a missile at the Pentagon, as well as shot and maybe killed a flight load of our own citizens.

Thoughts?

um, but, some people reported flight 77 was lost from radar somewhere over cleveland i think, some say it landed and the passengers were taken off but these are hard to verify, i generally avoid these but the statements are out there.

Ok. So what do you think happened to those people?

[ranxer]

i don't know! i'd love to have more proof of one side or the other.

I'd much rather stick with the facts we have or as close to those as possible than to go into alternative theories. i usually stick with the biggest hole in the 9/11 commission report that is the omition and oddity of building seven.

i really don't understand how if people don't have some completly provable explanation other than the bush claims they somehow don't have credible reasons to doubt the bush administration claims. there's got to be a name for that form of discrediting.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

You're hysterical. You know damn well that what you're implying is a full-blown, government orchestrated conspiracy, and you just won't admit to it.

You don't have to prove anything to me. I think your evidence of conspiracy is sketchy at best. You must have an opinion, based off of this evidence you see in front of you, no?

[ScruU2wice]

didn't they have this video out before like a month or so after the attacks. Because I'm pretty sure I saw it on the news before...

[ranxer]

there were videos released around the pentagon, but not the ones from the toll booth, the hotel nearby and the gas station across from the pentagon, those were removed within 15 minutes or so of the attack.

the ones released yesterday were from the tollbooth
duh, it took me long enough to find them..
[link]http://www.judicialwatch.org/flight77.shtml[/link]

kevin, i think you want me to put up my ideas so you can point out how implausible it might be, but i have none, especially about the pentagon attack. I am simply pointing out the inconsistencies of the bush admins conspiracy theory, have you looked into who they said did the incredible maneuvers with flight 77? hani hanjour was a terrible pilot barely able to fly a cesna and i've heard from many pilots that said an expert would have a lot of trouble flying the course close to flight 77.

[Geggy]

ARGH!

I never really pay attention to what had hit the pentagon because there are too many conflicting reports and witnesses statements, anything I say will be inconclusive because I have nothing backed up to support my questions and hypothesises. I heard the fbi is holding back a total of 86 videos of the pentagon strike and thus far they've only released two grainy, shot by shot videos that doesn't clearly show an AA77 or a missile like most conspiracy theorists had concluded. All videos were held as evidence for trials, so they had rights not to release the videos to the public. Now the moussaoui trial had come to an end, what reasons do they have to hold onto these tapes?

I'm a little annoyed by the media coverage over this matter. They need to focus on other more obvious anomalies that remains unanswered ie. wtc7, the security stand downs, hijackers' prior whereabouts, etc. I think the real question that needs to be asked relating to the pentagon strike is why no fighter jets had been deployed to protect the skies of DC, especially 35 minutes after the second wtc hit in nyc when it was clear to anyone that america was under attack.

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

Actually, I believe the burden of proof lies with the Government in this instance. We as citizens do not have access to all of the information about what happened that day. As such, we can only speculate, but never prove. It's the government's job to put all speculation to rest, and thus far, they have not released any definitive proof that they aren't lying to us.

The missile idea is just as plausible as the plane idea, simply because there is enough evidence to suggest that it was, in fact, not a plane, but nothing other than a missile could have caused that much damage. It's the government's job to show us something that inarguably shows us that it was a plane, or the conspiricy theories will continue.

Not to pick on you in particular Goat, but you just happened to synapsize the this only issue here that actually needs to be addressed.

Any time anything happens, the government jumps on it and supresses any information about it as a matter of course. FOIA is a very new thing, and the reason it exists is because governments (not just ours) have always classified whatever they can whenever they could that might cause any sort of unease among the general population. Most people are just plain dumb. That is just a fact. Dumb people are reactive and prone to do dumb things. If shielded from the facts of something bad, they will forget about the bad things and go on with their lives after a short time. Think cattle.

It's not the government's job to tell us everything about whatever happens. It's the government's job to run the government for us. ALL OF US. Remember, most of "us" are fucking retards. Do you go into McDonald's and demand to see their business plan and a prospectus before you order? Do you jump behind the counter at Kinko's and change the toner for them?

What percentage of people do you think have ever been inspired into actual political action upon receiving information that disturbed them? What exactly would you do with "full disclosure" were you to receive it? What do you think most of "us" would do were the government to transfer onto the public your burden of proof? Government plays the odds, and unfortunately, there's more harm than good to come from telling the truth these days.

[mburbank]

Just for the record, I'm not a conspiracist because they require too many competantists.

Preech;

"It's not the government's job to tell us everything about whatever happens. It's the government's job to run the government for us. ALL OF US. "

Okay. I'll buy it's not their job to tell us everything that happens. It's also not their job to keep every detail of every single thing they can bludgeon with a state secrets stamp off the table. They are RECLASIFYING documenst that hve been in the public domain long enough for some of the information to be in text books! They are WAY the fuck over the line into crazy ass territory about keeping screts, a country million miles from the 'It's not our job' excuse. Imagine if they took, say 1/2 half of the work they expend keeping secrets and put it into things involved with, oh, I don't know, running Fema or Homeland security or developing a foreign policy or anythig even remotely resembling runnig govrnment for us.

Wait. Thinking about this bunch of fucks it's just as well they spend all that time keeping secrets,

[Geggy]

Originally Posted by Preechr

Any time anything happens, the government jumps on it and supresses any information about it as a matter of course. FOIA is a very new thing, and the reason it exists is because governments (not just ours) have always classified whatever they can whenever they could that might cause any sort of unease among the general population. Most people are just plain dumb. That is just a fact. Dumb people are reactive and prone to do dumb things. If shielded from the facts of something bad, they will forget about the bad things and go on with their lives after a short time. Think cattle.

Not dumb, it's definitely the amnesia.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by ranxer

kevin, i think you want me to put up my ideas so you can point out how implausible it might be, but i have none, especially about the pentagon attack.

Sure, and I'm glad you realize that. It tells me that you have enough good sense to not share some of your ideas on this matter.

I am simply pointing out the inconsistencies of the bush admins conspiracy theory, have you looked into who they said did the incredible maneuvers with flight 77? hani hanjour was a terrible pilot barely able to fly a cesna and i've heard from many pilots that said an expert would have a lot of trouble flying the course close to flight 77.

So i'll ask again-- If no plane hit the Pentagon, where's the plane? Flight 77 was very real, so where are the people? Surely you've connected the dots on this, no?

And what "bush admins conspiracy theory" are you referring to? I think it's pretty widely accepted that a plane hit the Pentagon. The conspiracy theorizing is on YOUR end, my friend.

[ranxer]

the conspiracy theory is that hani hanjour, a very poor pilot, flew a 757 on a course that many veteran pilots have said is virtually impossible (for a veteran pilot) into the pentagon leaving a hole that a boeing 757 would not fit into. What did hit the pentagon? I don't freaking know! i don't spend much time on the theories that have been presented by various groups, i spend time trying to figure out how the official version is true or not and i'm not satisfied at all.

again, i don't know what really happened i just havn't seen any proof that what the bush admin and the commission says happened did.

I trust my own research and Michel Chossudovsky, Ellen Mariani, Nick Levis, Thomas Kimmel, John McMurtry, Col. Robert Bowman, John Valleau, Michael Dietrick, Jamie Hecht, Ralph Schoenman, Kyle Hence, Jim Hoffman, Paul Thompson, Barrie Zwicker, Joyce Lynn, Bruce Gagnon, Barrie Zwicker, Jim Marrs and almost all the scholars at www.scholarsfor911truth.org MUCH MORE than the 9-11 commission or the Bush administration.