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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2006, 03:13 PM        Is College Worth It?
TOLD EM I FINISHED SCHOOL THAT I STARTED MY OWN BUSINESS, THEY SAID OH YOU GRADUATED, NAH I DECIDED I WAS FINISHED

Sorry.


http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0327/039.html

Is College Worth It?
Rich Karlgaard 03.27.06, 12:00 AM ET


Asset classes--stocks, bonds, real estate, collectibles--are always competing with one another. Each clamors for our spare dollars. For periods we favor one asset class over others (e.g., stocks from 1982 to 2000). But when a collective judgment is reached that a particular asset class has been bid up too high, dollars are pulled and the asset class shrinks in value. Real estate may now be at that point.

I can think of only one asset class that in my adult life has outperformed GDP growth plus inflation yet has been blissfully immune from busts--any busts at all. That is the value of a four-year-college degree. When I graduated from college in 1976, our class joker had T shirts made up that said “$24,000 for one diploma and a lousy T shirt.” Actually my diploma and shirt cost only $12,000, as I had transferred from a community college where I’d been on a track scholarship. Those Adidas spikes, pricey at $24.95 in the early 1970s, were a great investment.

Today it costs $175,000 to send your kid to my alma mater. Yep--that’s the market price for four years of tuition and expenses at any elite private college. Did I say elite? Sorry. The second- and third-tier private colleges have also learned this economics game. They, too, are charging north of $100,000 for a four-year degree. And parents are lining up to write checks.

Do you suspect that this asset class--a four-year-college degree--might be overpriced? I do, for three reasons:

Search engines such as Google have ushered in the era of open-source learning. Society is rapidly progressing to the point where any Googler is on equal footing with a Widener Library pass-holder.
Most of today’s higher-paying jobs go to those who exhibit a combination of adaptable intelligence, numeracy, communications skills and a strong work ethic, as opposed to evidence of specific knowledge.
Which leads to a third, and no doubt controversial, point. Society once counted on universities to imbue students with the traits named in the paragraph above. It was once assumed, for instance, that a liberal arts degree holder was numerate and literate and knew how to draw lessons from history, weigh evidence, think, write, speak, debate and learn. Or so Larry Summers, the ex-Harvard president, innocently imagined. He thought undergrads should learn about the math-and-science-driven world they’d be entering as adults. This belief conflicted with the postmodern professoriat that prefers cutting rap records to teaching--or, if forced to teach, teaches liberation theology over the American Revolution. Summers lost the battle.


My prediction is that parents who risk their own financial security shelling out $100,000 to $175,000 for a four-year degree will lose, too. History will show that they could have achieved far greater returns for themselves and their children in other asset classes.

Why does the price of a four-year degree keep rising? Past performance is one reason. The cost of college degrees earned in the 1940s--tuition at Yale was $450 in 1940--through the 1980s looks like a bargain compared with the cost of those today. The return on investment for older degrees has been spectacular. Take a well-known statistic: As recently as the 1970s, there was little difference in the lifetime earning potential between a high school grad and a four-year-college degree holder. But in just one generation the four-year degree holder has leaped ahead in the earnings wars. In 2003 he could have expected to earn 62% more than the high school grad.

But there’s no guarantee the present trend will hold. It might even reverse. The same forces--technology and globalism--that quelled the wage growth of blue-collar workers may do the same to white-collar workers. Already software writers feel salary pressure from India, cartoon animators from China, classified ad salesmen from Ebay and so on. Despite this, you may conclude that my opinion of the worth of a college degree is nonsense. Degrees have always gone up in value, you think, and always will.

Degree Is Just a Proxy

Okay. Allow me to pose a question. Suppose you are an employer and are filling jobs for which no credential is required. In other words, for typical white-collar jobs--product design and engineering, sales, marketing, non-CPA accounting work and so forth. Would you pay a steep salary premium for a four-year degree holder versus a high school grad? You might. Perhaps you’d think the four-year degree speaks to the job applicant’s intelligence, along with a certain facility to set goals and finish them.

But what if you could guarantee those qualities in other ways (military service, missionary work, etc.)? See, I think the Harvard or Yale degree is worth plenty, not because of what Harvard or Yale teaches--the postmodern university can do more harm than good; witness Yale’s admission of a former Taliban spokesman. The degree simply puts an official stamp on the fact that the student was intelligent, hardworking and competitive enough to get into Harvard or Yale in the first place. May I present to the jury Bill Gates? He was smart enough to get into Harvard. Then he proved his financial intelligence by dropping out to start a company.

Okay, enough Harvard/Yale whipping. Like oceanfront property, their degrees will always command a premium and will probably pay out a terrific ROI. The same is true of degrees from 10 to 20 other private colleges. But beyond those 10 to 20 schools, I suspect the price of a four-year, private college degree--$100,000 to $175,000--will be money poorly invested.

Read Rich Karlgaard's daily blog at http://blogs.forbes.com/digitalrules or visit his home page at www.karlgaard.com
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Geggy Geggy is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2006, 07:40 PM       
The only way you're going to be able to afford to pay college tuition is if you buy a pair of ADIDAS...

Because NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE...

:endcommercialtheme
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2006, 11:06 PM       
I think college is not worth it.

I think education is not worth it.

Sometimes, I want to be a professor because it is such a worthless job where one is paid to do essentially nothing -- this occupation fits my personality and way of life to a T.
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Old Mar 12th, 2006, 11:40 PM       
Gold.
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Old Mar 12th, 2006, 11:43 PM       
The university system will eventually capsize, replaced by more efficient means of education.

General education requirements will be be cut to save time. You're already seeing this in universities like Brown.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 02:57 AM       
A more efficient means of education?

There is none. How could there be? Brain-injections?
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 08:34 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
I think college is not worth it.

I think education is not worth it.
And look how you ended up the way you are, jackass.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 09:23 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
I think college is not worth it.

I think education is not worth it.
And look how you ended up the way you are, jackass.
Cooler than you -- and too cool for school.

I am so cool people pay me money to put their beers in my pants so they stay ice cold.

I am so cool that I cannot sexually reproduce without thawing my sperm out before ejaculating it through a special machine.

I am so cool that I am cold-blooded and cannot get a proper erection because the coolness causes perma-shrinkage.

I do not need an education -- I have instinct!

You have to realize that a smart man without an education is smarter than a stupid man with one.
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 10:39 AM       
"I do not need an education -- I have instinct!"
-Kummberbund

People with 'instincts' do not deliberately encourage other people to hit them in the face until they bleed. They fight when they have to, not for sport.

"You have to realize that a smart man without an education is smarter than a stupid man with one."
-KretinKid

That may be true, but the stupid man without an education is a very sad sight indeed.
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 12:46 PM       
I don't know if i should throw this in, but just for good measure...

A smart man with an education is smarter than a smart man without an education.
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 01:30 PM       
My four-year degree cost about $14,000 CDN. That includes textbooks (which I stopped buying after halfway through third year). :/
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 03:16 PM       
Hey! I just realized! KrappyKruller is Pink from The Wall!

He don't need no education
DUHN DUH DUH! uhn duhn duhn duhn duh
DUHN DUH DUH! uhn duhn duhn duhn duh
He don' need no thought control
DUHN DUH DUH! uhn duhn duhn duhn duh
DUHN DUH DUH! uhn duhn duhn duhn duh
No dark sarcasm in the


well, you get the picture.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 06:12 PM       
I am not part of a wall...

and I have great instincts. Cool like a cheetah-cat.
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 09:32 PM       
I was wondering this too, actually. It seems to me like any job i would really want in the tech field doesn't really require a college degree so much as certifications. I'm sick of going to school now, and i really just want to work without school on my mind for a while, but i'm afraid if i never get anything past my two-year degree, i won't end up making any reasonable amount of money in my career.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 10:52 PM       
People should always specialize. It is simply more efficient.
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 11:18 PM       
You mean it's generally more efficient.

Over-specialization is as bad as over-generalization, IMO.



And a college degree is worth exactly what you put into it. Any idiot can get one - I'm living proof.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 11:29 PM       
I do not want to go to school.

I want to sit next to a fire at night, and I want to drink soju all the time and with it I want to eat some hot barbecued pork and beef, with mushrooms and garlic and cabbage and leafs;

I want to spend the night sitting by a river or under a city light, and when I get tired I want to hold someone's hand and snuggle as I sleep on soft blades of grass. I do not want the night to end -- things are more beautiful in the dark.

There is no point in an education if you can still eat barbecued pork and beef, mushrooms, garlic, and cabbage and leafs and can listen to your favorite song with your friends and watch a movie or fuck inside of a public bathroom with the door locked and a condom you bought out of a vending machine.

There is no point in an education if your degree doesn't give you the opportunity to lay flat on your back at 2 AM and do what you want, always, do what you want, no matter what.

I value my freedom over my education.

My heart and my instinct are better than brains, and my pride and glory is eternal and ...

I act independently of a brain. I do not use my brain. Why should I? I never think. My brain is only a tool to express a truth, an emotion, a feeling.

You can even call me 'Brainless.' 'Thoughtless.' 'Empty.'
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Old Mar 13th, 2006, 11:42 PM       
How about 'Shallow?' 'Ignorant?' 'Naive?'
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 06:15 AM       
I prefer to be called Kutie Kub.
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM       
Yeah, yeah, we get it KrabbyKlaw, your a delightful noble savage. Bravo for fucking in public restrooms.

You don't act independantly of your brain, numb nuts, even under the ridiculous definition of 'brain' you seem to be using.

"I do not use my brain. Why should I? I never think. My brain is only a tool to express a truth, an emotion, a feeling. "

So did you mean to say that you don't express truth or emotions or feelings or even redundancy?

"There is no point in an education if your degree doesn't give you the opportunity to lay flat on your back at 2 AM and do what you want, always, do what you want, no matter what. I value my freedom over my education. "

Sure, what could be a more natural choice than the army for always doing what you want and valueing your freedom?
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 11:23 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
I act independently of a brain.
hahaha
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 06:56 PM       
Is it too late to actually reply to the editorial itself?

Quote:
Search engines such as Google have ushered in the era of open-source learning. Society is rapidly progressing to the point where any Googler is on equal footing with a Widener Library pass-holder.
This is a quote from Richard Florida's book, Flight of the Creative Class. It basically summarizes my view of education in general:

Quote:
We can no longer succeed--or even tread water--with an education system handed down to us from the industrial age since what we no longer need is assembly-line workers. We need one that reflects and reinforces the values, priorities, and requirements of the creative age. Education reform must, at its core, make schools into places where human creativity is cultivated and can flourish.
Quote:
The question to ask ourselves is: Why are they doing these things in their spare time? Isn't this the real stuff of education in the creative age? Schools need to be vehicles for enhancing and mobilizing the creative capacities of all our children so that the tinkering of today can be translated into the creative advancement of tomorrow.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 10:15 PM       
Joining the Army was an opportunity economically, and I felt it would be adventurous and an important job. I also had the generally proper perception that the Army does offer a lot of freedom -- we have a lot of four-day holidays and such.

Plus, I like the haircut.
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Old Mar 14th, 2006, 11:41 PM       
It's too bad you weren't a damn nazi.
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