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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 12:20 AM        Are Canadian drugs the answer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/bu...rtner=homepage


October 16, 2004

Importing Less Expensive Drugs Not Seen as Cure for U.S. Woes
By EDUARDO PORTER

A customer at the Concourse Drugs pharmacy in the Bronx will pay about $118 to get a month's supply of 20-milligram Lipitor pills. At PharmacyinCanada.com, a Canadian online outlet, the same quantity of the drug, Pfizer's cholesterol-lowering medication, costs $79.

The difference has become a tempting political target. Senator John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, has made a campaign pledge to help cut Americans' prescription drug costs by allowing them to import drugs from Canada. President Bush has conceded that the idea is worth a try "if there's a safe way to do it." Bipartisan legislation in Congress would allow the reimportation of prescription drugs from Canada and other industrialized countries.

It may make political sense to point to Canada as a solution to high prescription drug prices in the United States. But many economists and health care experts say that importing drugs from countries that control their prices would do little to solve the problem of expensive drugs in the United States, where companies are free to set their own prices. Even the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that allowing Canadian drug imports would have a "negligible" impact on drug spending.

To begin with, there are not enough Canadians, or drugs in Canada, to make much of a dent in the United States. There are 16 million American patients on Lipitor, for instance - more than half the entire Canadian population.

Drug makers like Pfizer say they would reduce their shipments of drugs to distributors in Canada and other countries that re-export to the United States. "We are not going to supply drugs to diverters, in Canada or elsewhere," said Hank McKinnell, chairman and chief executive of Pfizer.

And Canadian health officials, fearing shortages and higher prices of their own, would probably clamp down on their own pharmacists and distributors to keep their drugs from leaking into the United States. Canadian patient-advocacy groups have already complained about shortages from the exports to the United States that already occur, even though they violate American law.

Even the most vehement advocates of forcing big drug makers to lower prices in this country say that imports are a rather clumsy tool. "It's a pretty crazy solution to a fairly simple problem," said James Love, director of the Consumer Project on Technology, a group advocating a lowering of drug costs. "Reimportation is not the first thing that would come to my mind."

But what comes to mind for people like Mr. Love is a political nonstarter: imposing Canadian-style price controls. No Democrat or Republican will be likely to dare to propose such a thing during an election year, or perhaps anytime soon, having seen the political debacle of the Clinton administration's effort to devise a national health care system - and knowing that the pharmaceutical industry is one of Washington's most powerful lobbying forces.

Price controls "wouldn't have a ghost of a chance to pass in the Congress," said Senator Byron Dorgan, the Democrat from North Dakota who is the sponsor of the main drug reimportation bill in the Senate.

Because free-market pricing of drugs and other health care still seems to be so politically sacrosanct, the policy proposals tend to tinker around the margins.

"Is it sensible for the United States to have price controls?" asked Jean O. Lanjouw, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "It is a real question. But we don't discuss the real questions."

For all the shortcomings, the Kerry campaign argues that drug imports should be given a chance. "If the impact is so negligible, why are the drug companies fighting it so much?" said Sarah Bianchi, Senator Kerry's policy director. Even if the overall bulk of imports were not that large, she added, "they would apply some pressure on the drug industry and make them revisit their pricing policies."

And some of the drug companies' defensive tactics could be barred by law. The Senate legislation, for example, would bar pharmaceutical companies from denying supplies to distributors and pharmacies that export to the United States.

But the measures proposed so far would do little to change the fundamental economics of the drug industry as it exists today. Prescription drugs cost a lot to invent, but once invented cost little to manufacture. That is why patents are granted to drug companies - to prevent other companies from copying their inventions long enough for the inventors to set prices high enough to recover their investment and make a profit. But price controls short-circuit this system.

When Pfizer sells drugs in the United States it sets the price at a level intended to sell the most pills at the highest price the market will bear. In Canada, instead, the provincial and federal governments determine how much the drug maker can charge.

Take Lipitor, which Pfizer makes at a factory in Ireland for distribution to the United States, Canada and other markets. When Pfizer introduced it in 1997, the company priced it below Merck's Zocor, the leading cholesterol treatment at the time, to get Lipitor onto the approved drug lists of the health maintenance organizations that are among this country's biggest buyers.

Now that it is the nation's best-selling drug, the price is 36 percent higher than it was in 1997 - helping Lipitor achieve nearly $10 billion in sales last year.

Currently, Pfizer charges an American wholesaler an average of $2.07 for a 10-milligram pill, and some 15 percent less to an H.M.O. In Canada, by contrast, the health care system run by Ontario's provincial government will reimburse only 1.60 Canadian dollars (about $1.28) for the same pill - the same price as in 1997.

"They hold all the cards," a Pfizer Canada spokeswoman, Teresa Firestone, said of the Canadian government. "Our hands are tied."

Such policies have kept Canada's prescription drug prices 30 to 80 percent cheaper than in the United States.

Because most other industrial countries maintain some kind of price controls on prescription drugs, the United States has a similar drug price gap with the rest of the world. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that average prices for patented drugs in 25 other top industrialized nations were 35 percent to 55 percent lower than in the United States.

But the United States market is hard to compare with any other. It represented more than half of the global drug industry's sales of $410 billion last year and was the country in which drug companies make the bulk of their profits. Whatever one thinks of the pricing disparity, efforts to force down American prices to Canadian or European levels could radically change the economics of the pharmaceutical industry - which effectively depends on United States profits for all of its activities, including a substantial portion of its spending on research and development.

American consumers are "subsidizing everyone's R&D,'' said Mr. Love, the consumer advocate. "We're paying way more than everyone else. Others should pay more.''

In testimony before Congress last May, John Vernon, an economist at the University of Connecticut, estimated that dropping drug prices in the United States to the levels in the rest of the world would cut drug companies' investment in research and development by 25 to 30 percent.

Critics of pharmaceutical companies dispute many of their cost estimates, noting that much research spending is squandered on the development of "me too" drugs that are not truly innovative. They argue that drug companies are spending large sums in marketing to persuade patients to demand expensive new medications even when older, cheaper drugs have the same effect.

That is why the critics say the entire drug industry needs to be shaken up. Maybe the United States should pressure other rich countries to raise the prices of their drugs, so they shoulder a higher share of the global research burden. Or maybe, the critics say, the United States needs to join the rest of the world in setting price controls.

The debate over reimporting drugs from Canada does not address any of those issues. "Reimportation is a false promise,'' said Mr. McKinnell, Pfizer's chief executive. "If we want to import price controls, we should have that discussion. Let's have that debate.''
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 10:29 AM       
The key point on this for me is choice - Pharmaceutical companies and individuals should have the option to buy canadian drugs, and then let the prices and results decide whether they end up getting bought. The argument that Canadian drugs aren't 'safe' is ricockulous.
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 10:49 AM       
Fuck you and your teriffs on lumber. Fuck you and your spending on war instead of providing a proper health system. Fuck YOU! :/
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 11:07 AM       
Your shitty canadian government wishes everyday that it was more like the US.
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 11:47 AM       
OMG your an idiot
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 07:08 PM       
It just doesn't matter. Re-importing drugs is not going to lower costs. The drugs are only cheaper in Canada because of governmental regulations; as soon as they enter the US, they will return to US market prices.

The Kerry campaign is really starting to piss me off. And you guys say that Bush is misleading.
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 07:42 PM       
- Interesting penis info and stuff HERE.
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Old Oct 16th, 2004, 07:48 PM       
Why are you looking at penis stuff? I'm 38 and I could drive nails with mine?
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 01:31 AM       
Drive nails?
ouch :/
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 07:57 AM       
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Originally Posted by *FARTINMOWLER*
OMG your an idiot
Yeah, seriously though. Get over your love affair with canada - it's really annoying. You give shit to alot of the americans on this board, even though they can see the flaws of their country.
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 08:38 AM       
I live in Illinois and I still can't pronounce Blagojevich's name correctly.
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 10:37 AM       
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Originally Posted by The One and Only...
It just doesn't matter. Re-importing drugs is not going to lower costs. The drugs are only cheaper in Canada because of governmental regulations; as soon as they enter the US, they will return to US market prices.

The Kerry campaign is really starting to piss me off. And you guys say that Bush is misleading.
Yeah, because sneaky border guards will secretly charge Americans MORE money than they already paid a Canadian pharmacy for, just so that it makes no difference for individuals to import their prescriptions.

OAO once again demonstrates how awesome his high school intellect is.
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 04:04 PM       
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You give shit to alot of the americans on this board, even though they can see the flaws of their country.
I feel there frustration :/
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Old Oct 17th, 2004, 07:31 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by AChimp
Yeah, because sneaky border guards will secretly charge Americans MORE money than they already paid a Canadian pharmacy for, just so that it makes no difference for individuals to import their prescriptions.

OAO once again demonstrates how awesome his high school intellect is.
Achimp once again demonstrates his lack of understanding in political matters.

Sure, you can go to Canada to buy drugs if you live near the border. That's not what I'm talking about, you tard. I'm talking about a general re-importation of drugs and a release of them on the U.S. market.

Those drugs aren't going to cost less just because they were re-imported from Canada. You're drug cost regulations will no longer apply, so there will be no force to prevent the costs from returning to normal U.S. prices.

The only way prices would drop would be if a middle man developed, who bought drugs at lowered prices then resold them at a slightly higher price in order to make a profit. However, I'm pretty sure that there are legal regulations against that from happening as a general market practice, and number two, even if there aren't, pharmaceutical companies would simply quit selling drugs to the middle men after they figured out what was going on. Then, they could strong-arm legal contracts preventing further abuses of the Canadian legal system.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 12:59 AM       
You can legally have certain drugs imported from other countries, i have mine imported. It's legal, it's in the law. Go look around! there's smillions of pharmacies online. you could call them middlemen who sell for higher prices.

India produces alot of generic drugs that are cheaper. Nuzac instead of prozac.

"Achimp once again demonstrates his lack of understanding in political matters."

That's why a politician, an aspiring president said he'd make it llegal. I'm sure he'd make accompanying bills and laws. Politicians making political decisions? My lord!

Can we say, "Duh"?

When are you going to shut the fuck up, i hate you. I hate you more than i hate those fucking low carb hamburger raps from carls junior. WHAT THE FUCK ITS JUST LETTUCE AROUND MEAT.

And why do you keep saying "Reimported"? The drugs are actually made in canada, that's why they are cheaper. Contrary to popular belief, drugs are made in other countries, america is not the center of the world's pharmacuticals.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 01:55 AM       
But we do generate most of the profit used to research those drugs and new ones.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 03:10 AM       
Yes, well, america apparantly has a problem with "Patents" because all these other countries usually have their own pharmacutical industry.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 08:56 AM       
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Yes, well, america apparantly has a problem with "Patents" because all these other countries usually have their own pharmacutical industry.
I agree. Just like the fucking corrupt goverment bending over for companies like Ford, slowing down technological patent advances, so that you can fight over oil that we really don't need.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 08:57 AM       
OAO is on top of things! He's talking about wholesale export from Canada into the U.S., whereas the article (and generally everything else on the subject) is referring to old people buying their prescriptions over the Internet, meaning they can be living anywhere in the country, not just "near the border."

I have yet to hear of a Canadian pharmacy shipping entire truckloads of drugs to stores in the U.S. Everything is sent in little bottles to individuals who take those pills themselves.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 11:34 AM       
It's being reported that the Canadian International Pharmacy Association (CIPA), which includes the largest Canadian Internet(s) pharmacies have decided that they will not accept bulk orders of prescription drugs from US states and municipalities.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 02:45 PM       
They never have... the law that allows you to self medicate explicitly states that you can only order a, "Three month self-medicating supply". Just like pharmacies only give you a one month(or so) supply at a time, eh?
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 03:01 PM       
Canadian Pharmaceutical companies are incapable, in their current state, to handle the volume which they would be bombarded with by increasing their demand tenfold. This type of demand simply can not be met. Additionally, U.S. pharmaceutical companies spend a tremendous amount of money on both R&D and FDA Approvals to take their drugs to market. Then, and only then do a majority of "knock-offs" or generics come to be manufactured in other countries at a cheaper rate. This is simply due to the incredible cost of approval. Aside from cost, placing this type of financial pressure on U.S. pharmaceutical companies will slow down this research and lead to slower progress in medicine in general.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 03:05 PM       
I don't think everyone will be taking generics... I'm sure the rich people will take the canadian ones and the poor people will stick with american ones. That makes sense, right?
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 03:06 PM       
That statement literally makes no sense to me.
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Old Oct 18th, 2004, 07:06 PM       
Good-- but just watch it happen.
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