Gay Marriage Ruled Legal in Connecticut

[pac-man]

So I'm guessing you were suffering from insomnia when you posted at 2:45 in the afternoon?

[ZeldaQueen]

Originally Posted by Dimnos

I remember when I was little... If I got concerned about what the other kids were doing and thought I needed to throw a fit about about it, my parents or teacher would say something to the effect of "You dont need to worry about what they are doing. You need to worry about yourself". If you are not gay, gays getting married shouldnt bother you. It has nothing to do with you. I keep hearing these kinds of people go on and on about the "gay agenda", what gay agenda? There is no gay agenda only a bigot agenda.

Exactly! It's not other people's concerns. What DOES concern me is that the same people who go on about how nonsensical things like global warming and evolution are seem to think gay people are planning on rising up and enslaving the world or something

Oh, and watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-id4GKsaQk

[Colonel Flagg]

Legalize Gay Marriage

Ban Gay Divorce.

That'll teach 'em.

[kahljorn]

I don't know i think there are some reasons why gays shouldn't be allowed to get married. If you force churches that don't believe in marrying gays to marry them, then I think it would be wrong. For example. That is easily avoided, though.

The most common response to why straight people don't want gay people to get married is because they think it undermines their marriage. Which has to do with the sanctity of marriage notion...

[Tadao]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

Legalize Gay Marriage

Ban Gay Divorce.

That'll teach 'em.

So true.

[ZeldaQueen]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I don't know i think there are some reasons why gays shouldn't be allowed to get married. If you force churches that don't believe in marrying gays to marry them, then I think it would be wrong. For example. That is easily avoided, though.

The most common response to why straight people don't want gay people to get married is because they think it undermines their marriage. Which has to do with the sanctity of marriage notion...

Another reason is because people claim the Bible says it's wrong.

But seriously, just because gay people marry doesn't mean heterosexuals will die out or something. I think that there should be the marriage option though.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Why is marriage only between a man and a woman? Because it accords with the traditional definition of marriage...?

Traditional marriages in Europe were once an arrangement primarily done for economic purposes rather than love. That hardly means that we should return to that. The institution of marriage is not static.

[kahljorn]

I wasn't making a point with that. I was asking someone why they said what they said. Anyway I don't think the changing nature of marriage means that we should change it. I mean hey maybe love is stupid and that's a dumb reason to marry. And I know this is on the side (and a different type of economical) but weren't you mentioning earlier that the reason why gays aren't satisfied with civil unions for economic reasons? Isn't the same amount of love and devotion existent between civil unions?
If not, does that mean marriage (alone) creates true love? SANCITITYT MAYBE?

if you're going to respond to something i say at least do it to something interesting

But seriously, just because gay people marry doesn't mean heterosexuals will die out or something.

No but they might not take their marriages as seriously or find any value or maybe they won't even be interested in getting married anymore. Potentially this could cause higher divorce rate and as a result o fthat a decline in family cohesion and the children will not receive a solid upbringing nor be in a stable social environment or something. It could wreak horrible devastation! banana

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Isn't the same amount of love and devotion existent between civil unions?

I never said there wasn't. My sole point was that the institution of marriage is not static.

No but they might not take their marriages as seriously or find any value or maybe they won't even be interested in getting married anymore.

Did racist people stop taking their own marriages seriously when the supreme court ruled that blacks and whites could marry?

[kahljorn]

Did racist people stop taking their own marriages seriously when the supreme court ruled that blacks and whites could marry?

Yep. And it still bothers a lot of (racist) people when they see a black and white walking around holding hands. Hasn't the divorce rate also climbed for a while with it being at about 40% right now? Maybe that's all due to blacks and whites being allowed to marry eachother. lol Plus hasn't there been less marriages over the years and more children born outside of marriages as well?
and also blacks and whites marrying isn't as common a thing as gay people marrying probably would be. Besides that, at least blacks and whites marrying was between a man and a woman. next thing you know we'll have a 90% divorce rate and people arguing for group marriages and other abominable marriages which i won't even touch on!

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Yep. And it still bothers a lot of (racist) people when they see a black and white walking around holding hands. Hasn't the divorce rate also climbed for a while with it being at about 40% right now? Maybe that's all due to blacks and whites being allowed to marry eachother. lol

So are you arguing that we shouldn't allow interracial marriage on that basis?

Besides that, at least blacks and whites marrying was between a man and a woman. next thing you know we'll have a 90% divorce rate and people arguing for group marriages and other abominable marriages which i won't even touch on!

This is an example of the slippery slope fallacy, the false assumption that one thing must automatically lead to another, more extreme example.

[kahljorn]

This is an example of the slippery slope fallacy, the false assumption that one thing must automatically lead to another, more extreme example.

No actually the slippery slope was before when i said banana at the end.
That's not really a slippery slope. The fact is that if we allow gay people to marry because there is love (or most other reasons)-- what other kinds of relationships have love?

And if the divorce rate has jumped significantly from when interracial marriages were allowed than it probably follows that it would jump more when other types of marriages are allowed, which are considered unwholesome or whathaveyou.
If anything it's false cause because I was attributing the increase in divorce rates to interracial marriage when many other social changes have taken place during that time.

[quote]

So are you arguing that we shouldn't allow interracial marriage on that basis?

...yes

and man why do you pick on such stupid arguments when i posted several actual thoughtful things. fuck you. You just want to blow yourself. And your counter-arguments aren't even good.

I never said there wasn't. My sole point was that the institution of marriage is not static.

Right and my point regarding that was when we find out what's right maybe it will be static. And also the fact that it has changed in the past isnt a necessitation to change in the future. Maybe those changes were actually wrong.
You were indicating that love is the reason to marry. I merely pointed out that love is achieved in civil unions and it isn't any more meaningful because you have an official decree of marriageness.

[Dimnos]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Yep. And it still bothers a lot of (racist) people when they see a black and white walking around holding hands.

They might not have liked seeing interracial couples walking hand in hand but did it degrade their marriage or make their marriage any less meaningful? I dont think so. A raciest man doesnt see an interracial couple and love his own wife any less. He isnt any more or less faithful to his own marriage. He might not like it but other than that it has no affect on him.

[kahljorn]

A raciest man doesnt see an interracial couple and love his own wife any less. He isnt any more or less faithful to his own marriage. He might not like it but other than that it has no affect on him.

Then how come the divorce rate has steadily raised since interracial marriages were allowed? How come the rate of marriages has decreased? How come the age of marrying has increased? How come the children born ou tof wed-lock has increased?

and what are you even talking about racist people beat their wives whenever they see an interracial couple.

Plus, for many people, the importance of marriage is that it's a union under god with his blessings. Gay marriage is not a union under god with his blessing. It's actually with his curses. Interracial marriage isn't quite as horrible as gay marriage in that sense. It undermines the basic holiness of their marriage. If they are performing the same blessings on gays as on straights, and it's considered a sin for gays to be blessed in such a way, then it desecrates a holy blessing, making it vile and unattractive and you know is a total insult to god.

Anyway, I ask again: Why do gays even want to get married? Because the love is the same regardless of if they want to get married or not, what difference does it make? Why do they want to be a part of a religious institution that has historically you know stoned them to death and told them they would suffer for eternity for even looking at each other naked.

all you're going to say is for the benefits, or maybe one other thing. Well, then we go back to what I was saying earlier...

[glowbelly]

kahl is totally playing devil's advocate and schooling all of you at the same time. you should be ashamed.

ps: hi, pretty!

[kahljorn]

yea seriously and jeanette ignores the actual arguments I make and instead focuses on a question I asked someone else about their argument. Simultaneously ignoring the fact that the thing I said after the question was a response to her.

I wouldn't give them the same thing but call it something else. that's why i said the benefits and the marriage aren't the same thing.
but that's just me.

that was directed at you, jeanette.

[Dimnos]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Then how come the divorce rate has steadily raised since interracial marriages were allowed?

Because the divorce rate has been steadily raised ever since divorce became as socially acceptable as it is. Doesnt necessarily mean it has anything to do with interracial marriages.

Originally Posted by kahljorn

what are you even talking about racist people beat their wives whenever they see an interracial couple.

Way to make a blind generalization. Good job

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Plus, for many people, the importance of marriage is that it's a union under god with his blessings. Gay marriage is not a union under god with his blessing. It's actually with his curses. Interracial marriage isn't quite as horrible as gay marriage in that sense.

I totally understand this argument from a church or similar institution. They are private organizations and if a priest or whomever decides they are not going to marry a gay couple that is their decision to make. However from a government and/or legal standpoint, gays should be able to go to the JotP and get a marriage license. What ever happened to "all men are created equal"? They shouldnt be given fewer rights just because of their sexual preference. By that logic anyone who has sex in any other way than the missionary position or for any other reason than reproduction should have rights stripped away from them.

Originally Posted by kahljorn

It undermines the basic holiness of their marriage.

This goes back to my previous statement that you shouldnt mind other peoples business and worry about yourself.

Originally Posted by kahljorn

If they are performing the same blessings on gays as on straights, and it's considered a sin for gays to be blessed in such a way, then it desecrates a holy blessing, making it vile and unattractive and you know is a total insult to god.

That is kind of between them and god dont you think? If they are committing a sin they have to answer for it when the time comes. Its not like they are murdering someone in the streets or even robbing from anyone. And this all on an "if", an "if" that implies god hates people of a certain race and/or sexuality. I mean god did make them who they are.

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Anyway, I ask again: Why do gays even want to get married? Because the love is the same regardless of if they want to get married or not, what difference does it make? Why do they want to be a part of a religious institution that has historically you know stoned them to death and told them they would suffer for eternity for even looking at each other naked.

I think Jeanette answered this before. Its not so much about love or showing their love, they know they love each other. They could start their own church that accepted them and would marry them and they would be able to go threw the process of a formal ceremony for their own satisfaction/amusement or whatever. The problem is that its not a legally binding marriage. They are not granted the same rights as other married couples. If one gets insurance from their job that would normally cover a spouse, it doesnt cover them. If one of them is critically injured and in the hospital, the partner doesnt have the same rights and privileges as a married couple. Things of this nature are why they want to be legally recognized as "married".

[glowbelly]

dimnos, your name suits you.

[Dimnos]

In what way are you referring

[kahljorn]

The problem is that its not a legally binding marriage. They are not granted the same rights as other married couples. If one gets insurance from their job that would normally cover a spouse, it doesnt cover them. If one of them is critically injured and in the hospital, the partner doesnt have the same rights and privileges as a married couple. Things of this nature are why they want to be legally recognized as "married".

I'll start with this since it is t he most important:
Okay but what I have said in probably at least ten posts on this subject is that instead of changing the law so that they can get married why not change the law so that they can get those benefits? The critically injured for example already has a modern solution in many states: a living will or advanced directive.

Because the divorce rate has been steadily raised ever since divorce became as socially acceptable as it is. Doesnt necessarily mean it has anything to do with interracial marriages.

How come the rate of marriages has decreased? How come the age of marrying has increased? How come the children born ou tof wed-lock has increased?
also it started raising even more after it was legalized.
lol

However from a government and/or legal standpoint, gays should be able to go to the JotP and get a marriage license. What ever happened to "all men are created equal"? They shouldnt be given fewer rights just because of their sexual preference.

All men are created equal does not mean everybody gets any priveledge they want exactly how they want it. The fact is, gay men have just as much of a right to marry a woman as anybody else.

By that logic anyone who has sex in any other way than the missionary position or for any other reason than reproduction should have rights stripped away from them.

That would be a typical argument to make if I said that procreating is the only reason why people should have sex. Which I didn't. Anyway the more applicable form of this argument would be that only marriages done with the objective of procreation should be allowed to marry. Which would limit menopausal women and otherwise infertile/incompatible couples to marry. Which i could say something about if i had made that argument and you had responded relevantly to.

and why only missionary style does the bible say only to do it missionary style i cant remember

This goes back to my previous statement that you shouldnt mind other peoples business and worry about yourself.

They are worrying about themselves. They are worrying about the meaning of their marriage.
Furthmore that's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. If someone were raping and then killing somebody next door shouldn't you not mind your own business and call the cops? I'm just going to put etc. here because there are tons of examples...

That is kind of between them and god dont you think? If they are committing a sin they have to answer for it when the time comes.

Where in the bible does it say that you should let sinners continue to sin because god's going to deal with them? Cause actually im pretty sure it says you should cast gay people/other sinners out of your society and or kill the fuck out of them. And people who GO AGAINST GOD, or who don't obey his rules(like not upholding the marriage ideals or punishing sinners/gay people), are punished.
So it's not just about the gays it's about themsleves. I think that's why people usually bring up sadom and gammorha. Because that was a city that didn't obey god's rules and was punished for it. But it says all over the bible that societies that don't obey god's will will be fucked by god.

Its not like they are murdering someone in the streets or even robbing from anyone.

the ten commandments aren't the only rules of the bible.

And this all on an "if", an "if" that implies god hates people of a certain race and/or sexuality. I mean god did make them who they are.

So if there is a serial killer and he kills people god made him who he is and thus it's ok? Maybe he made him like that so that we would get the balls together to punish the bastard. did god give us freewill?
I don't know if it implies so much that he hates them (but he might) so much as he thinksk that they are a sick abomination and that they shouldn't exist and are corrupting the nature he gave to them or something i dont know. maybe he thinks it looks gross.
God made tsunamis to kill people.

jesus

[Tadao]

SHUT UP!

[kahljorn]

Oh and glowbelly if your hi, pretty was directed at me hey lady ;P for some reason i thought the pretty would be directed elsewhere

[Dimnos]

Kahl, are you or have you ever been married?

[kahljorn]

I'm getting marrid on november first.
some people might consider it a gay marriage too

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I'll start with this since it is t he most important:
Okay but what I have said in probably at least ten posts on this subject is that instead of changing the law so that they can get married why not change the law so that they can get those benefits? The critically injured for example already has a modern solution in many states: a living will or advanced directive.

Why wade through the legal labyrinth of changing all the laws that pertain to married couples to also cover same-sex unions when merely changing the marriage law itself would take care of the problem?

How come the rate of marriages has decreased? How come the age of marrying has increased? How come the children born ou tof wed-lock has increased?

Fewer people feel the social pressure that they once did to get married. Is it so bad that people are marrying out of personal choice rather than social pressure? And is it so bad that single women have chosen to have babies on their own without the social pressure of marriage? Isn't this a matter of changing perceptions regarding marriage allowing individuals to make their own choices on their own terms without being ostracized?

All men are created equal does not mean everybody gets any priveledge they want exactly how they want it. The fact is, gay men have just as much of a right to marry a woman as anybody else.

And you have every right to marry a man (I assume you are a man) in the state of Massachusetts, so what would you care if I took away your right to marry a woman?

They are worrying about themselves. They are worrying about the meaning of their marriage.

If a person's marriage was so weak to begin with that a gay or interracial couple getting married destroyed it, then perhaps that person wasn't meant for marriage to begin with.

Furthmore that's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. If someone were raping and then killing somebody next door shouldn't you not mind your own business and call the cops?

There's a huge difference between rape and murder and consensual sex between adults.

Where in the bible does it say that you should let sinners continue to sin because god's going to deal with them? Cause actually im pretty sure it says you should cast gay people/other sinners out of your society and or kill the fuck out of them.

I'm quite sure it doesn't. Unless you want to start quote mining from the Old Testament, which as I recall, also prohibits the consumption of pork and shellfish. Do you want to cast lobstermen out of society and/or kill the fuck out them too?

So it's not just about the gays it's about themsleves. I think that's why people usually bring up sadom and gammorha. Because that was a city that didn't obey god's rules and was punished for it.

If you read the Bible, you will find that Gd agreed to spare the city if ten good people were found. Yet there weren't even ten there. Do you think that there are fewer than ten good people in any of our cities?

But it says all over the bible that societies that don't obey god's will will be fucked by god.

By that reasoning we should demolish the Buddhist temples for idolatry. Do you think that is a good idea?

And hi, Glowbelly.