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Troubleshoot Troubleshoot is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 01:06 AM        RE4: killer of a classic?
Many people probably remember (and still play) the earlier resident evil games, from the very first one on the playstation to RE4. While RE4 has been claimed to completely top the previous titles, I believe it has killed a classic. Unintentionally, but still.

Veterans of the RE series knew the game had limited re-playablility. Sure, it was tough your first go through, but once you beat the game it went from "survival horror" to "survival walk though the park and pet the pretty doggies". Just about no one dies replaying through the game.

Well, there was a way to get the original thrill of RE back, but it would require skill, more skill then most people could even begin to fathom.

The Knife Run (Que dramatic music)

For those who haven't had the video gaming pleasure of playing Resident Evil one, the knife was pretty much the P.O.S. (piece of shit) weapon every game has. It did little damage, hell the first enemy you fought with it took 7-9 slashes of the knife before it even considered dying. Also, you had to get close enough for the zombie to actually bite you to hit it with said knife. Most people tucked it away in the magical item box first chance they could, for something considered 1000 times more useful, such as the lighter.

Imagine the entire game, with enemies more then three times as tough and several bosses, with just that knife. Not pretty eh?

Yet, there was some guy who did it, and he probably has earned the ultimate bragging rights for resident evil. It became a challenge, a completely different game with the first. Many people have tried or done a knife run, and I promise you that they consider it victory hard earned.

It caught on in the gaming community, and in every title from the first to code veronica X(thats 5 or six games total), knife runs were being done and challenge was being restored.

Then RE4 came out, and while making the initial game easier, the robbed many avid (I honestly don't know what avid means) gamers of this ultimate challenge.

In RE4 (for those that haven't had the chance to play it) requires you to use a gun at some points in the game. I don't mean that there is a 1/1000000000000000000000000 chance you can get lucky and pull it off with a knife, I mean that shooting must be done.

"But wait, I'll only use the gun in those cases, that will make it count right?"

Sadly, the answer is no.

Several boss fights require the use of a gun, otherwise the bosses can't even be touched.

So the closest thing to a knife run in resident evil 4 is a "Do not upgrade your starting handgun, do not buy anything from the merchant, don't get the magnum or shotgun, handgun and knife only" run. They shortened that to the "No merchant Handgun/Knife" run, but it still lacks the ring of being call "the knife run"

I personally hope that the gameplay in the 5th resident evil brings back the knife run. Until that moment of truth is determined, all I can do is remember the knife and it's glory.

Anyone agree with me (or read that whole damn article for that matter)?
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Guitar Woman Guitar Woman is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 01:41 AM       
I didn't read your essay, but thanks for reminding me that Resident Evil 4 is the best game I've ever bought twice.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 01:58 AM       
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Originally Posted by Guitar Woman View Post
I didn't read your essay, but thanks for reminding me that Resident Evil 4 is the best game I've ever bought twice.
i can't belive it i agree with guitar woman except i just bought it once
and i also have all of them from 1 to 4 and i still prefer 4
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Phoenix Gamma Phoenix Gamma is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 02:52 AM       
Last winter break, I stayed at my parent's place. My dad, thrilled to have the Wii again, wanted a shooting game. He read around, and decided to get RE4, not knowing I owned the Gamecube version.

I still haven't told him, only because I don't want to belittle
all of the fun he had. He fucking loved it, and he hates a lot of good games. He played it for hours on end, and he'd tell me every night about this new part that he's at or how those blind guys are a bitch.

tl;dr: RE4 is a pretty rad game.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 03:04 AM       
I read the whole thing, and I disagree completely. G-Dub and darkvare and scores of RE fans hold this one in high regard for one very simple reason: it is the best in the series. Horror, art, suspense, game play, replay, weapons, villains, bosses, etc. It outclasses it's predecessors. It's Ali vs. Jack Johnson. It's the '95-'96 Bulls vs. the '71-'72 Lakers. It's Franklin Roosevelt vs. Teddy Roosevelt. Both are great, both made things better, both are highly regarded, but one is obviously more influential and better than the other.

If being able to play through the others with only a knife makes them stand above 4, then I can't reason with you. I can't tell you how to play a game or what makes the game fun for you. Some people like Virtua Fighter's depth, some like Tekken's accessibility. So if the knife run is your determining factor (and I'll be honest, I never succeeded in one) then yeah, you're gonna hold that against RE4.

Everything else about Resident Evil 4 is so far and away better than it's forefathers it isn't even funny. Navigating your character like he/she is a tank is not fun; a dearth of fresh challenges, puzzles, backgrounds, or situations is not fun; re-hashing the same old same from one sequel to another brings down the series as a whole; I could go on. I personally don't think the series went anywhere productive (especially in a game play since) past number 1 until number 4. Were RE2 or RE3 or Code Veronica awesome? Sure, but let's not pretend they weren't cut-and-paste in many respects. All had different levels of challenge from the get-go. Ninja Gaiden (Xbox) was both praised and lambasted for it's challenge, so NG2 (from what I hear/read) lightens up. Some people want to play games, some want to master them. Neither group is wrong, but all should enjoy. RE4, to me, is easily the most enjoyable game of the series thus far for all parties.
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King Hadas King Hadas is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 04:24 AM       
Your dad sounds really cool gamma.

Troubleshoot, that knife challenge thing sounds like such a gargantuan waste of time that anyone who actually saw it to completion might seriously consider putting video games aside to pick up a hobby that's a bit more productive.

I can't think of a single instance were I died in RE4 and blamed it on the game, always my folly that got me killed. Alternatively, I can't think of single instance in the old REs were I died and it wasn't the games fault. I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes when I'm in a tough spot in other games I'll start whining about being cheated,

"That's not fair "
"That's cheap "
"This games cheating "

but Resident Evil is cheating me, it's bullshit, BULLSHIT! It's impossible not to get frustrated at a game that puts zombies off screen, programs them not to attack until the camera deigns to shift to an angle where you can see them standing right fucking next to you at which point it's to late to fucking dodge them which ends up killing you because you've long since ran out of herbs to heal yourself and ammunition to defend yourself with (which doesn't matter anyways, you can't really avoid the fucker unless you know his there) forcing you to go back to your last save point which was quite awhile ago seeing how you'd long since ran out of ink ribbons to save your game with.

I think if it hadn't been for RE4 I might never of realized how much I hate these game mechanics and although I'll miss those beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds (REmake looks exceptionally good even by todays standards) I think I'll be happy if Capcom never deviates back to this garbage.
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Troubleshoot Troubleshoot is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 10:23 AM       
In no way shape or from did I claim RE4 sucked, In fact I loved it as much as the next guy. It's just this aspect of the game the got removed that made me feel disappointed. I guess it's just in my neighborhood, but the knife run is more or less tradition. I still loved RE4.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 10:50 AM       
A minor change affecting a minor population of RE gamers. Sorry the game loses something for you guys, but challenge yourself with finding a similar test within the new gameplay formula. Evolve as the series--thankfully--did.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 11:34 AM       
the knife run? i just use the knife in the ds version cause of master of knifing
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 01:13 PM       
I don't understand how making RE4's knife easier to use has made earlier knife runs in any of the previous games any less valid. Because they're different games.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 04:57 PM       
The knife challenge sounds retarded, anyway. If I want a challenge from a classic style Resident Evil I'll go through the REmake mode where an explosive zombie stalks you throughout the entire game. At least that way I can enjoy myself.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 07:23 PM       
RE4 is still an amazing game.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 08:16 PM       
This thread put me in the mood to play it last night, and when I got to the boulder part I remembered how much I hate quicktime events.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 09:29 PM       
i dont hate them, they make me nostalgic for dragon's lair
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Phoenix Gamma Phoenix Gamma is offline
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 11:38 PM       
There's a place for QTE, and it's not during a cutscene. A cutscene means you're not playing. Then FUCKFUCKFUCK PICK UP THE CONTROLLER AND HAMMER THE A BUTTON. Not that it's hard; it just breaks the flow.

With Dragon's Lair, I'm expecting to have a command pop up, because that's the game's entire premise.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 11:40 PM       
I've hated the shit out of them since Shenmue, and QTE's are definitely one annoyance RE4 has over his predecessors.
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Troubleshoot Troubleshoot is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 12:05 AM       
Well, it makes up wake up if your playing the game at 3 AM. Sadly I'm not really good at the QTEs. The whole damn part with krauser and the lasers ran me up about 10 continues the first time through. But hey, not bad at all once you can get the feel for them.

Exploding zombie? Are we talking about the GC remake here? Cause he was more of an annoyance then a challenge. It did throw me off first time I saw him though.
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Guitar Woman Guitar Woman is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 02:32 AM       
There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.
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darkvare darkvare is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 02:35 AM       
i have to admit i enjoy quick time events but i prefer them in boss fights in shenmue 2 i liked them because it was the only quick thing about the game
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 11:00 AM       
I have never heard of this knife run before. How would one kill bosses in RE1 with only a knife? I mean Tyrent would just kick your A with his claw arm thingy. The Plant boss.. how would you even go about fighting it with a knife? Is there a video of this? If not Im tempted to call BS
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 11:24 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Woman View Post
There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.
Can't go wrong with any game that forces you to stay on your toes because shit is constantly coming at you. And who could forget NEMESIS? I figured since he was a tyrant he'd be slower than slug piss.

I PISSED WRONG.

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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 03:30 PM       
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There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.
Ever played Clock Tower?
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Guitar Woman Guitar Woman is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 06:35 PM       
Yes.

Quote:
The Plant boss.. how would you even go about fighting it with a knife?
Well, can't Jill just kill it by poisoning the water supply? Or is that Remake only?

If you were Chris, yeah, you'd be pretty fucked.
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Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 07:18 PM       
Its been a long time since i have played it so i dont really remember all that well. I remember something about poison but i thought you still had to fight it somewhat. I looked on youtube for "resident evil knife run" and they have part one to ten. However part ten ends with killing the snake (2nd fight with the snake), again its been a while and my memery sucks, but i think that is before you even leave the house. So it doesnt even show you the plant boss or tyrent.
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Old Jun 13th, 2008, 07:56 PM       
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Yes.



Well, can't Jill just kill it by poisoning the water supply? Or is that Remake only?

If you were Chris, yeah, you'd be pretty fucked.
You can do that in the original RE.
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