Something that occurred to me this morning

[sspadowsky]

I was listening to the local news show this morning, and they were discussing PFC Jessica Lynch and her treatment in the Iraqi POW camp. The thrust of the story was how her treatment was a blatant violation of the Geneva Convention rules. And it is, there's no denying that.

But I remember, some months back, a story about some suspicion that Al-Qaeda members being held at Guantanamo Bay were not being treated according to the rules of the Geneva Convention. And I remember combat vets being interviewed, and basically saying, "they attacked us, fuck the Geneva Convention."

This is just an example of double standards that irritate the hell out of me. We cite UN resolutions as a reason to invade Iraq, but we disregard the UN when the majority are against invading. Iraq cannot have WMD, but we can. Some Americans support tossing Geneva Convention rules out the window when it comes to Al-Qaeda terrorists, but those dirty Iraqis damn well better play by the rules with our troops. Why is it that we are the only ones who expect to get away with breaking the rules and ignoring the will of the rest of the world?
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WELLBUTRIN ATTORNEY

[ItalianStereotype]

it all lies in technicalities my friend...

besides, the people detained at guantanamo bay are not being subjected to nearly the same kind of treatment that PFC lynch received.

[Vibecrewangel]

But, A violation of the rules is a violation of the rules.

At least when someone else violates them.......



Spad - I've said the the same thing a few times myself...especially in recent weeks. It irks me.

[sspadowsky]

Italian, I don't deny that our troops are getting worse treatment. Don't get me wrong. But, like Vibe said, the rules is the rules. I'd just like to see a little consistency in this fuckin' country.
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BABE STRIPPING

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by sspadowsky

IAnd I remember combat vets being interviewed, and basically saying, "they attacked us, fuck the Geneva Convention?

While there are always going to be bad apples, Spad, I think that these guys were just speaking emotionally. Possibly former POWs with an "axe to grind". What's said and what's done are two different things.

[Baalzamon]

The people respond to two things

1. A war hero to make them feel good about what the country is doing.

2. The brutality of the enemy to give moral justification to the cause and arouse public anger and war fervor.

Jessica Lynch is the war hero, the 19 year old blond that everyone loves and will no doubt be painted in the best light possible and used as a tool to get public support. Not that her story isnt amazing, but it will be USED, extensively, and already has been.

And the Iraqi treatment of her is a means to increase war fervor. After all, anyone who would hurt beautifull innocent Jessica Lynch the war hero who kicks iraqi ass and everyone loves, deserves the full wrath of the american military.



On the other hand, people simply arent interested in anything that the U.S. might do wrong. Maybe they agree with it(the they hurt us so we'll hurt them attitude), and maybe it just isnt as interesting as bombs and death(such as all the fat juicy contracts being handed out right now).

So of course the american media and government will do evrything it can to demonize the iraqis and hold themselves up at every turn. Its a matter of covering their asses as well as giving the people what they want: Ass kicking revenge for the sake of spreading freedom to the world!

[kellychaos]

I agree. That IS kind of sickening the way that they're using her. Apparently, it works though. Look at Vince.

[FS]

She's everything Vince ever sought in a woman! Cute, armed to the teeth, able to leap exploding humvees in a single bounce. Too bad her ethnic background doesn't switch every week.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by FS

She's everything Vince ever sought in a woman! Cute, armed to the teeth, able to leap exploding humvees in a single bounce. Too bad her ethnic background doesn't switch every week.

Vince is eagerly awaiting his Playboy issue with the "Girls of the Military" spread in it. Funny part is that he'll be knockin' it down to the M-16A2s that they'll be holding. The women are secondary ... if that.

[Vibecrewangel]

Okay....I want a sexy Girls of the Military spread......

[The_Rorschach]

Christ, look, comparing what was done to PfC Lynch, and the detainees at Guantanamo Bay is beyond apples and oranges.

How did we break the Convention with the detainees? Well, firstly by not regarding them as prisoners of war. Which, arguably, they really weren't. They were terrorists, not soldiers.

Detainees were held only by a roof and thus exposed to the elements 24 hours a day. Which, having been to Guantanamo during the summer, I would say is a kindness. The heat is humid, sticky and suffocating when you have too many people sharing an 8x8 cell. Especially if you're not used to it.

Of course, there was also the photographic 'evidence' that we had tortured them, when in actuality, they were being transported with black hoods, earcaps and restraints. . .Hardly torture, not very comfortable, but not inhumane.

Some detainees kept at the base, theoretically, could be tried by military commissions. Asked whether they would face the death penalty, Mr Rumsfeld was attacked for his glib reply of "Oh, sure" but as yet, none have been executed, or to my knowledge, even tried. Though they have been questioned.

Allegations they were not fed and unable to practice their religon were shown to be fraudulent. . .

Did I miss anything?

[sspadowsky]

OK, you got caught up in your emotions. I understand that. But you missed the point entirely, Ror. The point has nothing to do with whether or not our troops tortured the Al-Qaeda dicks. Are we clear on this? The point is the double-standard. Amid rumors of mistreatment, many Americans say, "Who gives a fuck?" But when it's one of our troops, we expect our enemy to play by the GC rules.

Got that?

Did I miss anything?

All you forgot was to check your fucking condescending attitude at the door, Mr. Smartypants.
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Extreme Vaporizer

[The_Rorschach]

You're quite right Sspad, I did miss the point. . .And you're right, there is a double standard, and sadly, its one of many we live by here in the United States. Maybe people just put such a blind trust in the military, that they believe the right thing will be done.

Or maybe they really just don't care, which is an attitude dangerous enough to have well earned the animity(sp?) we face today.

I merely object to the comparison because, what was done to her is just wrong on so many levels the comparison seems to somejow justify or mitigate it, like, "Well, we are doing it too" you know?

[Baalzamon]

Just a question, but the rest of her unit aside, what the hell did the Iraqi's do to mistreat Jessica Lynch?

Now I understand that some of the other people in her unit where executed or something, and they arenet really sure what happened, and yes that would be war crimes.

What i dont get is, what war crime was committed agains Jessica Lynch specifically?

From what I can tell, she was wounded in legitimate combat, and then promptly transfered to a hospital, as would be the proper thing to do. From the sounds of her injuries,(gunshot and stab wounds, broken bones) it sounds to me like the Iraqis did a great deal to save her life by putting her in a hospital, as she would have surely bled to death had they taken the time to torture and rape her first.

So why have I heard screaming about war crimes in her case?

[Anonymous]

I want the Jessica Lynch action figure when it comes out


I hope it will have 'battle damage' action

[sspadowsky]

Heheh. No shit, man. She's gonna have her own cartoon show, breakfast cereal, bestselling autobiography, and talk show circuit tour by year's end.
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Bmw M History

[FartinMowler]

You Americans eat and poop bullets. God love Ya.

[The_Rorschach]

Well, Baal, heard from a friend of mine that she had been raped repeatedly, and being me took it to heart and repeated it. The news hasn't confirmed anything of the sort, so I'll refrain from repeating anything that is mere rumour. In regards to how they broke the Geneva Convention, rape/toture/humiliation aside. . .

Regardless of if they were treating her in a hospital, or not, they are in violation because a) they did not give the Red Cross access to her, and; b) they did not immediately repatriate her due to her injuries. Everyone there, and everyone up the chain of command, should be tried by an MOAB tribunal (referring of course to BLU-82), IMHO. FNC is reporting that nine bodies were found in the same compound as Pvt. Lynch, and until we know what condition their bodies were found in, this may be a further violation.

[Anonymous]

It would be great if they made an 'American Patriots' line of action figures, and each would come with a terrorist. The holes in the terrorists' hands would be too big for their guns, so they'd always fall out. And they'd come with 'surrendering action.'

I wish toy commercials were still like they were in the 80s so I could see an ad like that for these;

Kid holding two terrorist figures wiggles them over a fallen figure while saying, "We've got you now, Miss Lynch!" Suddenly, an American flag comes into view as two white figures come zooming up over a hill in the Patriot Patroller.
"Not so fast, towelbrains!" Both Iraqi figures, with a click of a button in their backs, throw their hands up. "Geneva THIS!" the boy exclaims, while Sgt. Villafane blasts one of the terrorists with a plastic missle from his bazooka. Then a girl comes into view and holds up the Lynch figure.
"You boys get held up in traffic?" She smarmily quips, while high-fiving her friend.

[Jaeger S Meistersen]

Once again, rorsharch, you numbskull, you've missed the fucking point. It's not a matter of fucking degrees here. The point being made, rather eloquently and observently, by my good Mr. Spadowsky is not "we crossed the boundaries of the geneva convention 4 times, and they crossed it only 3, and blah blah blah." nobody here is denying that the mistreatment, however mild or severe, or PFC Lynch and/or her ample bosoms is a violation of the geneva convention. What is being discussed, and what your posts continually ignore is that the geneva convention is SUPPOSED TO BE a blanket set of rules stating something to the effect of "Any ignorant fuckwit what violates these earns a spanking from the ENTIRE U.N.!"

The iraqis broke it and the whole of the american populace is crying out for the public televising of their U.N. Spanking, but when we violated them ourselves not only was the outcry PRACTICALLY null and void, but them what did cry out for the U.S. to get a U.N. spanking, but them what did got called "unamerican traitors" or "terrorist sympathisers".

IT'S A DOUBLE FUCKING STANDARD, YOU DUMB WANKER! GET IT?! we're not saying the other half of the violations didn't occur, only that they're being given different press.

the voice of equality lowers to a whisper in times of war.

[The_Rorschach]

Wow. . .You can type, so I assume you can read. I already granted there were double standards present. I was answering Baal who asked what Geneva Convention articles were violated in the detention of PfC Lynch.

You might have missed it, it was this question here:
"Just a question, but the rest of her unit aside, what the hell did the Iraqi's do to mistreat Jessica Lynch?"

Sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up already.

[Baalzamon]

yeah, and it was good answer too.

I hadnt heard anything about rape.

I wasnt too sure about exactly what should have happened, but I dont think the exact technicalities and "paper work" that should have gone on is really important, considering that she survived a mess that wasted most of her unit.

The important thing in my opinion is that she is alive rather than simply having a bullet in her head, and I'm sure her parents would agree with me on that point.

Now lets worry about the geneva conventions when it comes to her unit as a whole, and how the whole ambush, rape, execution style murder thing went on.

Unfortunately in a war like this a group of crazy militants who are willing to fight untill the enemy bullets tear them to peices arent really too worried about the geneva conventions, and that unltimately will be ne of the biggest problems the U.S. faces in this war as well as the general war on terrorism.


Now what i'd really like to know is why everyones so fucking surprised about US soldiers being mistreated by this enemy that is so desperately outnumbered and outgunned.

[ranxer]

The iraqis broke it and the whole of the american populace is crying out for the public televising of their U.N. Spanking, but when we violated them ourselves not only was the outcry PRACTICALLY null and void, but them what did cry out for the U.S. to get a U.N. spanking, but them what did got called "unamerican traitors" or "terrorist sympathisers".

yeah! lol where's the clapping emoticon?

the emperor truly has no clothes on, us squabbling over this is just what they depend on, we're spending 12k a second on this war and the sherriffs department is asking me for 20 bucks please help us in this time of need! i just gave 20 to the veterans group that called me. dammit smoke and mirrors with our people and our taxes. enjoy the show

[AChimp]

When that kind of stuff happens in a hospital, it's called gynecology.

And are Americans going to repatriate wounded Iraqis that they capture? Uh huh... I thought so. What ye sow, so shall ye reap.

[Abcdxxxx]

The thing that cheapens this whole "hey we broke the geneva convention too" debate is that a lot of the criticism coming from the treatment of detainees in Cuba was pretty damn petty. Not all, but a lot.

Aside from the treatment of POWs the Iraqi army has also violatd the rights of their own people by storing weapons in schools, and hospitals, using human shields, hiding amongst civilians etc.