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  #26  
TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 08:48 AM       
^ The depression thread has been locked. This thread is based on a news article about how the Dow dipped 500-900 dollars yesterday.

If you want to talk about the depression, then make a new thread.

Last edited by TheCoolinator : May 7th, 2010 at 10:13 AM.
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  #27  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:21 AM       
Actually, the front page of today's Inquirer states that someone may have fat-fingered a trade at the NYSE which resulted in a boatload of AmeriTrade/E-Trade computerized activity which drove the bungee-market we saw yesterday. If this is indeed the case, expect to see some new rules and regulations concerning computerized trading in the near future.

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A trading glitch, dubbed a fat-finger trade, was suspected of sparking the sell-off. CNBC and other financial news outlets reported that a Citigroup trader may have erroneously substituted "billion" for "million" in a large sale. And computer-generated trading may have made matters worse.

Citigroup and Procter & Gamble said they are examining trading activity on their stocks.

There was no major news to justify the sell-off. Neither the U.S. nor Canada released any significant economic reports, and what was released -- building permits in Canada and initial jobless claims in the U.S. -- was mildly positive.
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Last edited by Colonel Flagg : May 7th, 2010 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Added article quotation, for supporting documentation
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  #28  
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:50 AM       
I heard that on the news just then. To be honest it seems a little convenient, but I don't care enough to care.


Interesting that something so harmful to the economy can come about through a small mistake. Not a great message they are sending out about the strength of the free market.
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Pentegarn Pentegarn is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 07:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
^ The depression thread has been locked. This thread is based on a news article about how the Dow dipped 500-900 dollars yesterday.

If you want to talk about the depression, then make a new thread.
And this thread is your transparent attempt to point us in the "we are in a depression" direction

So my post is both valid and unanswered. Nice try though.
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  #30  
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Old May 7th, 2010, 08:42 PM       
There you go again, babbling on about logic and sense.
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  #32  
Evil Robot Evil Robot is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 11:50 PM       
The DOW average is meaningless as an economic indicator. Anybody who is concerned over this is a fool. None of the people on I-Mockery have the kinds of assets that are at risk from this. You are all fools and derilicts.
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  #33  
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Old May 8th, 2010, 05:00 AM       
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You are all fools and derilicts.
A fair cop. but I deny deny deny thinking the world as we know it is coming to an end because stocks fell 500 points
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  #34  
TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM       
It dropped again by 130. I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast. I wonder how low it can go?
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Old May 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM       
Forever, hypothetically.
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Old May 8th, 2010, 10:38 PM       
I think it might stop at zero though.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 10:47 AM       
I dont think Coolie even knows what the DOW is or how its calculated and here he is trying to sound smarter than us by pretending its an emergency worth making a thread about.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 10:15 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
It dropped again by 130. I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast. I wonder how low it can go?
You do know the actual reason for the drop was because of a human error in a single trade caused a false panic right? That the plummet you are "The sky is falling!" about is a big human error fueled mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo Finance
Multiple sources said a trader entered the letter "b"-as in "billion"-when he or she meant to type "m," for "million," shortly before 2:47 p.m. New York time.


U.S. stocks plunged suddenly, briefly by more than 9 percent, before pulling back to a near 3 percent drop, as investor worries mounted that Greece's debt problems could spread.
So your entire argument is now supported by a single typo
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Old May 9th, 2010, 11:06 PM       
WA BAM
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:26 AM       
I think all these stock market rollercoasters and crises and whatnot show what a frail system capitalism is. It's never about real stuff, like real shortage of food or real disasters, it's just about speculations, worries, expectations and rich people gambling with money.

I mean seriously, this recent crisis, whose aftermath we're still enduring, what was it the result of? War? Droughts? Asteroids? Aliens? No, just people playing with money. Artificial values, figures on computer screens, air castles. Makes me a bit sick
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  #41  
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Old May 10th, 2010, 04:18 AM       
it doesn't really have anything to do with capitalism.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 05:05 AM       
I was thinking the exact same thing; I don't see how "Oops, it was a typo/computer error" really makes the whole structure of things look any more reassuring.




Also, Kahl, I was under the impression that it did.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 06:34 AM       
The problem with blaming capitalism is you are blaming something disguised as capitalism for everything when the actual case is that all those things, (speculation, futures, market shares, et al) are not the true meaning of capitalism as it was meant to be.

Capitalism should be trading value for value. Things like speculation, futures, stocks, and the like are not true capitalism, where person A has a tangible thing person B needs and person A makes the best quality of that thing available. That was how it was once long long ago and when it was that way, America did nothing but grow, it wasn't until the stock market was introduced that these intangible financial crises began to appear. Before that, it was all about real events effecting the market (like Blasted mentioned, shortages, war, etc).

Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century
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Old May 10th, 2010, 07:40 AM       
Pentegarn, fair enough, I can agree with what you're saying (however Kahljorn's "reply" leaves a bit to wish for), even though I think you may be splitting hairs a bit. It sounds a bit like when communists defend communism in the similar fashion ("what we've seen haven't been true communisms").

For most people, economists included, value-for-value trading isn't some sort of mandatory ingredient of a financial capitalism. However, the complex system of financial intermediaries that toy with money that isn't theirs is sort of a cornerstone.

Let's at least agree that the whole process of spending money that doesn't exist is symptomatic of a capitalism. It's also precisely what's caused the recent crisis.
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  #45  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old May 10th, 2010, 08:28 AM       
money doesn't really exist anyway
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  #46  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 10th, 2010, 08:46 AM       
Quote:
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Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century
It might sound like I am a huge hypocrite here, but the difference (or at least, what I see the as difference) between saying:

"That wasn't true communism" (which, I probably said a lot in my more-youthier times)

and

"It's not true capitalism"

Is 1) the simple answer is that communism is a stateless society, and the 'Communist' parties of the 20th century merely called themselves Communist because that's what they purported to be aiming for, not what they actually had achieved, which I can delve into further if you REALLY want to

2) The 'speculation, futures, stocks' etc are all 'symptoms' (yes, you beat me to it) of what you can call the healthy capitalist time period. Communism has had no such period. All the foundations for what you see as just not true capitalism were lain there, and it hasn't taken any serious revolutions to get to where it is now. It has evolved into what it is now, at no ones surprise, from 'true capitalism', with no other avenue available to it. Is it still wrong to criticise capitalism if baseless trading was always the inevitable conclusion?

You could argue that Stalin did this, evolved it, but he couldn't do it without killing opponents, changing laws and principles and contradicting himself, other communists and also the ideals of the whole thing. So much so that the question has to be asked "what is left?" the answer being "very little".

You can say it's not true capitalism, but the world is still run by the capitalists who have legally evolved it without contradicting what has always been the number one ideal; capital making money. Capitalism isn't about trading tangible item A with tangible item B; they had that in ancient Greece too. Any laws you are talking about are to do with a country, not an economic system, because the economic system just says "make capital". That used to mean through owning a factory and making shoes, now it means through buying and selling as well as owning the factory.

If we are going to leave it as it's "symptomatic of capitalism" that's fine by me though.
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TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 10th, 2010, 11:13 AM       
I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.
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  #48  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 10th, 2010, 12:41 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.
No need to state your theory twice, we all read it the first time.

Except maybe you?
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Old May 10th, 2010, 12:55 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.
Yeah fuck that shit. We should abandon the stock market so nobody can raise money for large projects and just go back to trading beads for pieces of cloth.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 12:56 PM       
Everybody's stupid except for you coolie, you ******.
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