Man spits on cop, gets life in jail

[pjalne]

No, PJ thinks he's on the money.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Originally Posted by "The_Rorschach

Regardless of standard definitions, it is a societal abheration to commit a crime against one's fellow man. We come from the same culture were citizens lobby to enforce equality and protect an abstract right over something as trivial as personal property. Why then is it we show sudden temerity in limiting the active influence of those whom have shown themselves incapable of respecting the basic right to personal security which even Hobbes admitted was inherent to civilized life?

Degrees of murder, to protect innocent men from suffering unduly for a crime they did not intentionally commit. . .That is the spirit behind those rulings, but you seem to have forgotten that in favour of the law's letter. This man is guilty of his current accusations, additionally, he is a convicted criminal for past transgressions whom the system failed to rehabilitize. He is now a liability to the basic rights of everyone around him, and as such, must be removed from society for the good of all. He assaulted his own wife. Think on that for a moment. The one person who was closest to his heart, the single soul whom shared his most intimiate confidences, and he abused her in the most base and foul manner. Then, in addition, he assaulted the very person to intercede on her behalf. He has shown what he is capable of, and if the system is just, he will recieve what is his due.

I only wish he could hang.

You can be guilty of something and still not deserve life in prison. A person who consistently jaywalks after numerous tickets...does that person deserve to be removed from society? Someone who steals food b/c he can't afford it, and does it again each time he is released from prison b/c he can't get on his feet...does he deserve life after a certain amount of time.

And don't forget a "crime" is defined in society by a politicians view of what society wants, not necessarily "natural law". Homosexuality was a crime up until about 3 wks. ago...do those men deserve life for committing homosexual acts against the "law"?

I also brought out degrees of murder as an example of measuring intent. There are other degrees as well such as petty theft v. grand theft, the difference being price. Grand theft v. joyriding. Felony-murder v. 2nd degree murder (of which felony-murder can carry a death sentence for someone the accused didn't 'intend' to kill while 2nd degree is 15-20)? It's never simply "did he do it"? So if the man's insane is there less time...of course, b/c of diminished culpability, so we find him to have committed crimes less intentionally...he still committed it and is guilty of it.

[kahljorn]

The orgin of the crime is defined by a specific cause; a lack of morality. You may consider it black and white, "Bad is bad, good is good", but yet you could excuse the rich people with bilions of dollars who sit in rich homes getting rich while poor people cry and suffer everyday, but it's not a crime-- not even considered immoral.
Anyway, back on topic, the nature of a crime is never defined by the intent, or even if they did it. It's defined by the lack of morality in it and the lack of care or repentence for the suffering the person has caused. Most of that can't be judged(although they do have plea bargains), so instead it's easier to judge based on the nature and lack of morality of the crime, i.e.: person kills a person on spur of the moment emotional impulses; gets murder 2. Person ignores somebody who is in danger of dying; depraved indifference(i think depraved indifferance is worse then murder 2, though).

[The_Rorschach]

"You can be guilty of something and still not deserve life in prison."

And you can be guilty of something and still deserve life in prison.

"Someone who steals food b/c he can't afford it. . ."

Someone who steals food has other options. In the worst case scenerio, he can see a temp agency and get a fill in job. Lacking all other skills, he can at least do construction. There are options, everything from enlisting to selling plasma. Noone is forced to steal, and no condition is so difficult than an alternative to crime is impossble. If they are a repeat offender, they illustrated either an inability to control themselves, or a total disdain for civic law, in which case they should be removed from society for the good of all. Removal does not necessitate imprisonment.

"...does he deserve life after a certain amount of time (of repeat offenses for stealing food). "

Yes, it is the most humanitarian option, for at least he will eat everyday without risking scurvey and malnutrition in jail.

"And don't forget a "crime" is defined in society by a politicians view of what society wants, not necessarily "natural law"."

You are the eptiome of a stupid cunt. There is no such thing a natural law. I suppose next you'll say that the civilian populace is living under an oppressive system which they neither need nor appreciate, and that the laws we have currently are in place to keep them in line by the powers that be. DOWN WITH THE TYRANNICAL US, BASTION OF DICTATORS AND OPPRESSION.

"Homosexuality was a crime up until about 3 wks. ago...do those men deserve life for committing homosexual acts against the "law"? "

Its still against the UCMJ, which in addition to the law, is something I am still responsible for abiding by, even after the end of my service. Laws change because they are a reflection of what society finds acceptable, not instruments of tyranny implimented by politicians to control civilians. I'm sure that sentiment is wasted on you however.

"I also brought out degrees of murder as an example of measuring intent."

This man's intent was made clear a year ago with his initial conviction, and is evident now in his repeat offenses.

"There are other degrees as well such as petty theft v. grand theft, the difference being price."

Gee. Really. I had no idea.

"It's never simply "did he do it"?"

You don't say.

"So if the man's insane is there less time...of course, b/c of diminished culpability, so we find him to have committed crimes less intentionally...he still committed it and is guilty of it."

A moot point. This man is wholely in possession of his senses, which makes his crimes even more grievous, and that is my final word on this topic, I don't care to respond to you any longer. It is a waste of both of our time.

[FS]

I find it incredible that you would so carelessly pass out justice.

[punkgrrrlie10]

I find it incredible that Rorschach can so callously disregard people's opinions and experience as moot and insult someone's intelligence at the same time. Obviously a sign of either insecurity or "God complex" of which there is no "debating" with. So yes I agree, it is a waste of our time.

[AChimp]

Fornicating is a sin, Vinth. But, of course, you already knew that from your years in the seminary.

[Skulhedface]

Originally Posted by mburbank

I think you guys are all entirely missing the point. This isn't about spit guy, who's conviction will almost certainly be overturned. It's about cruel nd unusual punishment, and punishment fitting the crime.

I don't care what you think of this particular spitter. You casually dismiss someone gettinga life sentence for spitting on a cop and you are not just setting foot on the slippery slope, you are tumbling ass over tit down it.

That this is generally being treated the same way as the funny animal stories the put in the bottom left corner of the front page of the metro makes me sick.

Actually, along the lines of what you've said, I don't think I missed it.

To paraphrase what I said, I'd said "so if an innocent man gets beaten, bleeds on the cop and the cop notices, he gets a life sentence?"

Intent notwithstanding, it's fucking ridiculous to get a life sentence for spitting. I only worry for if this gets so out-of-hand, that if you spit on the sidewalk once, you get locked away and gassed for unauthorized dumping of biohazardous materials.

The policeman himself shouldn't be allowed to continue on the force, because these are the type of cops that will sooner or later shoot someone and plant a gun later.

[mburbank]

Vinth, what would it be like it you shut your fucking stupid e-chowhole when you had nothing to contribute?


"Criminal behaviour is itself predatory (cruel) and abnormal (unusual), there is no punishment which is uncalled for, providing the man in question is guilty."

Listen. You know I like you, but that is absolutely the stupidest thing you've ever said here, and one of the stupidest things anyone has said here who wasn't Vinth.

That sentence would mean if you jaywalked , it would not be cruel and unusual for the state to chain you to a lampost and let you starve to death.

"Now, Max, what would it be like if you were a Jew? Oh, wait, we can't wonder about it becuase you are a Judaism."

[The_Rorschach]

There are various shades of crimes Max, but in general, I believe they fall into two categories: The majority of laws are engineered to protect individuals from direct interference with their lives, the rest are to protect people from themselves. There are many laws which fall into neither category, and others that fall somewhere in between, but for the sake of argument allow me to work with this assumption for I am only concerned with the former cases at the moment, the latter is in deed of revising.

I maintain the government has no right to protect a person from themself -wearing a motorcycle helmet, drug use et cetera ad infinitum. Now, when it comes to acts which interfere with others, murder, theft, rape, battery assault and the like, the government must protect the innocent from such predation. What purpose does government, on a state, local or federal level, exist but to maintain the secuirty and peace of its own society?

Does this man deserve life for spitting? No, but he has earned it for a burtal way of life which has adversely affected the public around him. Why is it his right to freedom is more valuable than the publics right to security Burbank? I really don't see it.

Crime of this sort is cruel, its very nature is predatory or abusive, depending upon how one views the beating of a spouse. It is also unusual, and God help us when it ceases to be so, therefore the ramifications must likewise be equally severe. Mankind does not possess an inherent morality, there is no better nature in people one can appeal to. The hand of justice must be swift, unwavering and firm.

[mburbank]

You seem to be missing that he got life for spitting on a policeman, not for beating his wife. Irony aside, doesn't your argument (and really it's far and away the silliest thing I've ever heard from you) argue for a swift and speedy execution for all crimes that endanger others in any way? Shouldn't someone get life in prison for speeding? Shouldn't bar brawlers be put to death?

What will it cost the tax payer to keep our spitter jailed for life? Frankly I'd rather keep our police force supplied with moist towlettes.

What kind of civil liberties message does life for spitting send do you think? And what standard of spit proof will be required? I think DNA evidence at very least, but what if the policeman simply forced a perpetrators jaws open and applied the spit? I mean, I dooubt that could happen, but with a life for spitting case on the books can we trust the Poletzai not to abuse their new found powers of being spit on?

I want to go on record as saying that I think spitting on people is not at all nice, and that this guy is obviously a very bad person. I might even argue that he should get a multi-year sentence for wife beating. But life for spitting seems like the sort of shit you read in a bad filler story in Asimov's.

[Preechr]

*raises hand*

Umm... I believe I've seen many MUCH stupider things said here than that. I don't believe that Rorshach's follow up was even really that necessary... I got his point, and I'm not always the brightest bulb on the gutter...

An entire life in prison may be a tad harsh... but we all know that's not what he got, so acting all fake-shocked at the sentence is just silliness. I'm not the biggest cop-fan out there ( I totally agree with whomever said that that special protection should extend past our revered government employees...) but showing that kind of contempt is not a personal gesture... especially when you're dealing with such an obviously contemptible man.

The guy had no respect for society in any form. Lock him the fuck up. Justice is served. This is not about getting the chair for jay-walking or any other hypothetical situation. His punishment absolutely fits his abberent life choices.

[FS]

The law is not there to judge you on how nice a person you are. It's there to judge you on the crimes you committed as noted down in the law.

Christ. We don't even KNOW anymore about this case other than what we've been told by the news.

If spitting on a cop has to be punished more severely, then that should go through the proper channels. New laws, approval, I don't know how it all works exactly. Not "Meh. Asshole. Lock him up."

Besides. This "asshole" is certainly not one of a kind and I doubt they're all getting a life sentence.

[kahljorn]

NEXT ON FACIST BULLSHIT AMERICA: LIFE FOR DISOBEYING PARENTS.

Cut scenes of the Rosarch:
I think he deserved it! He has no regard for society!

Cut scene of the 12 year old kid:
*crying* I just wanted to watch Pokemon, but mommy said I had to do my chores! BUT IT WAS NEW, POKEMON... NEW... POKEMON.


THE HORROR

[The_Rorschach]

You know me Burbank, I don't believe in caging people and don't particularly view our correctional system as effective. I would sooner ascribe to a system based on fines, death or apologies with the added stigma of revoking citizenship for the conviction any Federal crime. Maybe when the Supreme Court revisits what was passed by Justice Felix Frankfurter we can start to institute some manner of true reciprocity, but until then none of us can do anything but watch as the civilized aspect of our society slowly slips away.

I know your heart is good Burbank, and I see where you're coming from, I really do. . .I wish I had the compassion within me to be a kindred spirit in this but I don't. All I see is the victim, and the potential for another one. I don't like to see the weak, the innocent and those without defense taken advantage of, and standing helplessly aside while the cycle repeats itself fills me with an anger born of frustration. I've seen too much to have any sympanthy for those who would willingly perpetrate such acts. The fact he spit on a cop doesn't bother me, its simply the outward manifestation of his contempt for his fellow man, but the fact he beat his wife. . .

Thats such a low and cowardly act, and I see people defending him by trivializing his case through equivocation; What if it was jay walking. Ridiculous. It wasn't jay walking, it wasn't something benign or inconsequential, he has had a violently adverse affect on someone who may continue to suffer for it years for now in subtle and sundry ways. Most would agree that a year is too little, but I ask you, based on this man's character, is life really too much?

[VinceZeb]

Awww, the widdle pussified wiberal is mad at me! Good.


If he didn't want to be punished, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE SPIT ON THE COP! Wow, what a far-fetched concept! Don't do something you know you can get jailed for and you probably won't go to jail for it! Oh man, what a grand concept!

The scumball spit on a cop. He shouldn't have. He is getting punished according to the laws that have been set before he spit on the cop. Wah wah wah. Here is my violin for him ---->

[Anonymous]

Maybe his wife was a "stupid cunt"
Those damn bitches are always back talkin.

[kellychaos]

Not that I'm condoning the behavior but isn't the act of spitting on a cop (along with some of the other indignities that they have to put up with in their job) rather commonplace? Sounds like a case of a cop just pushing the issue. Sure. It's a thankless job and I'm glad that SOMEBODY'S doing it but I don't have a lot of sympathy. In other words, it's part of the job (it's an imperfect society :shrug )and if you can't take it, then get the hell out.

[mburbank]

Shach: Again, he didn't get the sentence for beating his wife, he got it for spitting on a cop! Granted, you know a good deal about what the guy is like from the wife beating, but the SENTENCE WAS FOR BEATING HIS SPITING ON A COP! THAT'S SCARY! Of course it will get overturned, but the very idea that you could get a law like that on the books at all is a very bad sign. I think it's quaint you liberatarians don't see this as a first step at SEVERELY increasing police powers and protection.

Preecher: I'll get back to you. I have meeting.

Vinth... Honestly I didn't bother to read your post yet. I just imagined your usual blathery pap, inserted few racial slurs, mixed plural and singular concepts and put in the word 'now' twice.

Now you remind people I'm a Jew, rinse and repeat.

[FartinMowler]

This stupid spitting bugger is being made and example of. Wow you guys sure do have a lot to say about a simple subject.

[FS]

This has fairly little to do with the wifebeater spitting on a cop. It's about a man getting an abnormally high punishment for a crime no matter who and what he is. They are two separate issues. This is a good illustration of why justice must be nearly blind to emotions.

[FartinMowler]

[

It's about a man getting an abnormally high punishment for a crime no matter who and what he is.

Uh no.

This is a good illustration of why justice must be nearly blind to emotions.

Uh really no.

[Skulhedface]

CAN'T ARGUE WITH THAT

[The_Rorschach]

"Maybe his wife was a "stupid cunt". . ."

Quite likely, there are many of them out there, but there are responsible ways of handling situations involving such people. For instance Doopa, until now, I've chosen to disassociate myself with you. There are responsible ways for dealing with 'stupid cunts,' and irresponsible ways; He is responsible for his own decisions.

"Shach: Again, he didn't get the sentence for beating his wife, he got it for spitting on a cop!"

YOu act as though his past transgressions have no impact on his charges. I'm actually over at a friends house tonight, Adam Bagely, and he was a cop in Chino Cali for afew years before coming out here (It's how I get to check the Mock at nights now ). According to him, while uncommon, it is not exactly unknown for cops to recieve such treatment, but mostly it goes ignored. I believe this man was charged maliciously, I'll grant you that, but not unjustly. He is inherently worthless and utterly dispicable. What purpose would his life serve if he was set free?

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

"Maybe his wife was a "stupid cunt". . ."

Quite likely, there are many of them out there, but there are responsible ways of handling situations involving such people. For instance Doopa, until now, I've chosen to disassociate myself with you. There are responsible ways for dealing with 'stupid cunts,' and irresponsible ways; He is responsible for his own decisions.

I believe that she was joking to make something close to the same point that you're making. I think that you may need some sarcasm lessons.