Enough lessons from these reactionary bigots!

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

I lost you Scru, I have no idea what your point is. You don't want to be held accountable, but you want to defend the Islamic religion. That means you identify with the religion, but not the modern crimes associated with it. The problem with that, is you aren't willing to allow your religion to be held accountable either. Fine, so then who is accountable, and how do we speak out against them without offending you, since you think it's beyond your own means?

My problem is that you say Religion should be held accountable you're implying that the teaching and text are the result of fundamentalism. And I don't believe that. I am saying that the problem is solely the people who are brainwashing a generation into believe a secular government is against Islam, and that the two can't coincide. My problem is with the people not the religion.

I think the fact that muslims are making these overarching claims shows that it's a problem with the people. It's wrong and senseless and there is nothing to justify it. Someone offended their religion and rather than defend themselves and point out how fulla shit this guy is, they decide throwing bricks makes alot more sense. They call themselve muslims because that's the identity they are trying to fight for.

I am offended more by the people rioting than th cartoons, If I haven't admitted that here I will. But I can't see a solution to how you can stop, I don't even know where to start. Mainly because Moderate muslims in the west are no better to these people than anyone else.

[Chojin]

The majority of US Christians voted Bush. Does that mean that Christianity is inherently stupid?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by glowbelly

i'm thinking that might have to do with the fact that there are just a few more muslims in those countries than there are here, but i dunno. i could be wrong.

Yeah, apparently there are only 15 muslims in America.

[Abcdxxxx]

I'm sorry...but this is one situation where saying "look at this
objectively" really doesn't express condemnation or disapproval.

So again, I'll ask you.... what should we call these people if not Muslims ? What would you like me to call the Imams, clerics, religious scholars, and organizations like The Councile on American-Islamic Relations ?

(by the way, it's Sura 5:21, and Sura 17:104 which discuss the Jewish disapora right to land, in case you were curious)

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

I'm sorry...but this is one situation where saying "look at this
objectively" really doesn't express condemnation or disapproval.

So again, I'll ask you.... what should we call these people if not Muslims ?

You call them terrorists without associating them with religion, because if you know anything about religion you'd know that it doesn't promote or justify or even directly cause such actions. If by your definition this is Islamic terrorism, then, by your defitinion, Christian and Jewish terrorism exists too and is just as bad.

Why is it always Islam when it comes to Middle Eastern issues and it's just political instability when it comes to other countries? We hardly go by the Sharia law. You can accuse pseudo-Islam if you consider what's going on in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iran, but not when it comes to the rest of its neighbouring countries. It's hardly ever Islam. It's politics, and most of the time reporters abroad seem to name-drop Islam in thre like it has anything to do with the issue. It doesn't. Stop making excuses for things merely because it simplifies the conflict in your head. It's never that simple.

(by the way, it's Sura 5:21, and Sura 17:104 which discuss the Jewish disapora right to land, in case you were curious)

Another by the way, here's Allah saying that He acceps Jews and Christians, and therefore we should tolerate them (I mean, if He does, who the hell are we to dismiss them as sinners?)

Suarah 2:62 says:

"Verily they that believe and those of Jewry and the Christians and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and do what is right, their rewards await them with their Lord, and fear shall not come upon them, neither shall they be grieved."

Further proof of the fact that you are very wrong in your assumption that Islam preaches contempt for non-Muslims. Freedom of religion is emphasized throughout the Koran. You have absolutely NO argument if you claim to know the Koran yet insist that terrorists go by it. They break too many rules that they may as well just consider themselves 'kafirs.'

And Surah 5:21 says this:

"Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people. He said: 'Remember, my people, the favours which Allah has bestowed upon you. He has raised up prophets among you, made you kings, and given you that which He has given to no other nation. Enter, my people, the holy land which Allah has assigned for you."

[Abcdxxxx]

Good, then the majority of the Middle Eastern Muslim world are living in sin, free of Jews or Christians amongst their communities. Like I said, not even moderate Muslims evoke those verses when dealing with the topic of Israel, or Bethlehem, which is now a Muslim city, or hell.....anywhere in the region.

Al Qaeda put an article on their website saying "yeah okay, so the Koran says Israel should belong to the Jews, but they don't deserve it, so there". Why should outsiders care more for what the Koran says then how the Koran is being practiced? I mean, it's your problem if the Koran is being defaced, it's only my problem if I'm the target of genocide, because of it.

Fuzzbot, you are a fundamentalist with some progressive views. Why should I dissassociate the clerics, Muslim outreach organizations, and religious scholars from their religion ? They would tell me you're the one practicing it wrong. Hell, I agree with you, simply because I like your interpretation better, but why should I dissassociate Muslim terrorism from the religion when they are the ones who make up the majority of Islamic leadership itself?

And yes, I would say Christian, and Jewish terrorism is just as bad... If it even existed on the level of Islamicist terror. I'm not defending Kahanist or Hilltop Youth, am I? They're both religious groups, just as Hamas is a religious group, once led by an Islamic cleric.

So again, when a Islamic suicide bomber reads from the Koran, and says all the reasons he feels justified in killing Jews, you're asking me to pretend he's not a Muslim ? Is there a special name I should be calling him? Because I'm sorry, he's not just a terrorist on par with the Weather Underground. Your argument is about as idiotic as asking us to seperate the White Militia aspect from Timothy Mcveighs case, or say, talk about the IRA and pretend there wasn't a religious component. Dream on.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Good, then the majority of the Middle Eastern Muslim world are living in sin, free of Jews or Christians amongst their communities.

This doesn't make any sense, what are you implying?

I mean, it's your problem if the Koran is being defaced, it's only my problem if I'm the target of genocide, because of it.

God, stop pouting you rediculous shit. Stop playing the victim.

Fuzzbot, you are a fundamentalist with some progressive views.

I think you're just painfully stupid and you totally don't get any of my points.

Why should I dissassociate the clerics, Muslim outreach organizations, and religious scholars from their religion ?

Because you are only allowing yourself to be exposed to a select few, mainly to pat yourself on the back and say, "Yes, I knew it!" you are looking at Islam through an extremely narrow lense thinking it will solve the world's problems if we just eliminate the whole damned thing, right? This is because you are stupid and cannot think outside of the room you've locked yourself in.

So again, when a Islamic suicide bomber reads from the Koran, and says all the reasons he feels justified in killing Jews, you're asking me to pretend he's not a Muslim ?

Is that the only thing you use to identify a Muslim?! These people have been brainwashed into interpreting the Koran differently. Everyone, including Muslims, are critisizing Hamas for encouraging this. Palestinian mothers have spoken out against this when they've lost their children due to this idiocy, they say "This is not my Palestine, this is not my Islam." What do you say to that?

Your argument is about as idiotic as asking us to seperate the White Militia aspect from Timothy Mcveighs case, or say, talk about the IRA and pretend there wasn't a religious component. Dream on.

Your problem is that you seem to intentionally misunderstand where people are coming from to make yourself look like you have a point, when you really don't, most of what you've said here is sheer bullshit and you probably know it too, you just don't have the guts to come out and say it. Go on, play the victim. Sure, you're all the way in America and the 5 Muslims who are yelling "Death to non-Muslims!" make you feel as if you're in danger. You call yourself an Arab-Jew yet you didn't even know the history of Judaism in the Middle East or the origins of Islam, and don't whine to me about 'but I've talked about it on here before!' because ANYONE who knows the origins of Islam will know EXACTLY where these problems are coming from, and WHY they shouldn't be associated with Islam because it's what Islam EVOLVED itlsef into through the PEOPLE, and that is confirming what Scru has been saying all along. The problem is with the people, and not Islam. Therefore, you are stupid, because you claimed that you knew what you were talking about throughout this whole fucking thread and now at least we know that you know fuck-all and refuse to learn, because in your simple mind you dismiss everything that you don't agree with as "bullshit" as opposed to "another point of view from someone who's actually part of the religion."

Fuck off.

And while doing that, remember, it's February and the terror alert is YELLOW for 'MUSLIMS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!'

Target of genocide. HAH. The most rediculous thing I've heard all fucking year.

[ScruU2wice]

I thought the word "Jewry" was hilarious

[Abcdxxxx]

"You're stupid, you don't know anything" isn't a rebutal or direct response to anything I've said.

Point blank, I don't think someone who talks about Jews in Jordan, or claims that the civil war in Lebanon didn't have a religious component should be pulling cards. You also claimed there is no anti-semitism in the Arab media. It goes on and on....so frankly, I don't think you're well informed or educated on the topic at all.... but I attempt to break it down for you beyond just saying "fuck you" or "you're stupid".

So feel free to respond to what I'm saying, point-counterpoint.

Everyone, including Muslims, are critisizing Hamas for encouraging this.

Yet Hamas got elected. A mother who raised her children to be suicide bombers is a hero, and got elected. There are University classes in the US on "the poetry of suicide bombing". CAIR, the largest American organization for Muslims supports the methods of Islamic militants. Even you argue for sympathy towards the suicide bombers. So I think your claim is dubious at best. Western news outlets stopped even reffering to these people as terrorists for a period of time.

Target of genocide. HAH. The most rediculous thing I've heard all fucking year.

Of course you think it's funny. Where I know Scru is an honest to goodness moderate, I think you're just a contradictory fraud. Of course you think it's pouting. Do you even realize that you are your own satire of yourself?

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Dear Diary,

How's it going? It's me. What? You've forgotten me? Let me remind you: I'm the one who thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a pointless brat who is a victim of propoganda and the one who hates it when people call me stupid because they can't handle how clueless I am about a topic I so love to talk about without researching it further. I hate people like that. I mean it's okay if I call them stupid, but they better back off because I know too much (mom said so!). He is a fraud, I think! Or, I know! I know he is! 'Cuz he called me out for being what I am!

I just LOATHE people pointing out the fact that I'm stupid, I really do. I mean, why do they stab me with this frequently and painfully? My guess is that Islam is spread through the sword. Yup. That means Muslims like to walk around stabbing people multiple times.

I believe I was the first one to not dismantle his points constructively but rather just quote it all and say, "hey, you know what? I think you're wrong and stupid," and the worst part is that I didn't even tell him why. I just told him that he knows nothing. And then when he does it to me, I don't know, I guess I felt how bad it feels for people to just call you stupid. Wow, I mean.

I hide under my bed sheets everyday knowing that the Muslims are just out to get me, you know? Everyday it's the same damned thing. I'm the target of genocide, diary. I'm the target of horror and terror, and I don't know what to do. I cry myself to sleep, hold on to my opinions because I know they'll get me places, and I guess if I lie to people saying I know absolutely everything about the Middle East they might take me seriously. But I better not talk! Because as soon as I talk any Middle Easterner would be able to see right through me, and I can look at him and say "you're biased!" to make myself look good in front of others, but seriously, I'd just be looking bad in front of my own self because I know I'm wrong. But I'll fuck myself multiple times with a tweezer before ever admitting it.

Well, I better go be all depressed and shit now, and talk to people about me feeling really passionate about this because I'm the victim of war here, a mass genocide, it's really sad. I hate myself. Hell can't possibly be any harder than this so I wish God would just kill me and send me to hell. It can't possibly be worse. This place is horrific, thanks to Muslims. HORRIFIC. Hideous. I can't take this shit anymore.

Yours,
ABC
Target of Genocide, Division A

[Abcdxxxx]

Can I at least blame your lame ass jokes on Islam? How else is it you share the same sense of humor as those Danish Imams?

Rather then repeat myself, I'll just quote myself. Ask someone for help if you're confused.

Good, then the majority of the Middle Eastern Muslim world are living in sin, free of Jews or Christians amongst their communities. Like I said, not even moderate Muslims evoke those verses when dealing with the topic of Israel, or Bethlehem, which is now a Muslim city, or hell.....anywhere in the region.

Al Qaeda put an article on their website saying "yeah okay, so the Koran says Israel should belong to the Jews, but they don't deserve it, so there". Why should outsiders care more for what the Koran says then how the Koran is being practiced? I mean, it's your problem if the Koran is being defaced, it's only my problem if I'm the target of genocide, because of it.

Fuzzbot, you are a fundamentalist with some progressive views. Why should I dissassociate the clerics, Muslim outreach organizations, and religious scholars from their religion ? They would tell me you're the one practicing it wrong. Hell, I agree with you, simply because I like your interpretation better, but why should I dissassociate Muslim terrorism from the religion when they are the ones who make up the majority of Islamic leadership itself?

And yes, I would say Christian, and Jewish terrorism is just as bad... If it even existed on the level of Islamicist terror. I'm not defending Kahanist or Hilltop Youth, am I? They're both religious groups, just as Hamas is a religious group, once led by an Islamic cleric.

So again, when a Islamic suicide bomber reads from the Koran, and says all the reasons he feels justified in killing Jews, you're asking me to pretend he's not a Muslim ? Is there a special name I should be calling him? Because I'm sorry, he's not just a terrorist on par with the Weather Underground. Your argument is about as idiotic as asking us to seperate the White Militia aspect from Timothy Mcveighs case, or say, talk about the IRA and pretend there wasn't a religious component. Dream on.

Originally Posted by I,Fuzzbot.

They break too many rules that they may as well just consider themselves 'kafirs.'

They would say you're playing pocket Muhadith, and unfortunately, you have made your own interpretation politically irrelevant, due in part because you wish to distance yourself from the mess, which is a form of denial, not a solution.

What your thesis comes down to is a desperate desire for you to believe that there are no Muslim criminals, and this whole thing exists in the sensationalized head of bigots. You apparently don't even believe in the concept of an "Islamic Terorist". You're so out of touch it's hardly relevant what you think. You refuse to clean up the problem, or take responsibility, let alone even admit that there is an association between Islamic supremacists and ISLAM. The dominant religion in the Middle East IS Islam, so it's logical that the attrocious human rights conditions tolerated in the region are automatically associated with the Muslim religion. I know you'd like to believe these crimes aren't religiously motivated, but the unfortunate truth is they are, in large part, and the stories they use for inspiration are often about Mohammed himself. A great deal of people believe Religions are to blame for most of the wars and violence in the world, and there's a reason why, you dolt.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Dear Diary,

Same ol, same ol! I like to quote myself a lot because I love having exactly the same discussion with someone I've just had about a week ago. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm bored, perhaps I should find a new hobby? Oh, diary, I just do not know! I'd say a joke but I have a lame sense of humour, even worse than those of the Danes! Or the Dutch? No, I think the Dutch could be quite funny. I just hope they don't joke a lot about the Jews because, seeing as we're pretty much targets of genocide, that would not be very tasteful.

I like blaming religion but when it comes to my own there's absolutely no reason why I should do it I mean, Islam is one thing, Judaism is another, they are not related no matter what that "dolt" says about the origins of Islam and what Allah has to say about Judaism as a practiced religion, but that's just me! And I'm just stupid! But shhhh, don't tell anybody this! I'm trying to convince them of something else (that I'm smart, which I am, according to mom!)

Yours, quite possibly forever,
ABC
Target of Genocide, Division A

[Abcdxxxx]

See, even your jokes bomb. Comedic jihad?
Get some new material.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Dear Diary,

Today I made a hilarious reference on I-Mockery.com I mean .net. It was pretty funny, this Muslim dude was trying to be obnoxious by posting my diary entries, pasting them from my actual web journal (I've yet to figure out who he got the link from ! I will kick their fucking ass as if I'm Israel because they rule) and I said, "hey dude, what's wrong with you, is this a comedic jihad?" and I must've busted both of my nuts just laughing at that shit. It's hysterical comedy gold, I can't believe how funny I am sometimes. My aunt Trudy said that if I wasn't so damned smart I'd make a really good stand-up comedian, but then I decided to discuss the politics of a region I know nada about. Slightly different. I'm unintentionally funny most of the time. I think it's because I depend on Wikipedia too much. Either that, or I'm just fucking funny, hence the "comedic jihad" line (copyright!)

Today I was informed that at least 10 Danes converted to Islam since this incident. I don't know what to think! They're probably doing it because they're scared! That's more Muslims for me to critisize! But, at least I get to slap them all under the same catagory, the more Muslims, the less I think! Because the more I blame the world's problems on Islam. Easy as.

Yours,
ABC
Target of war and genocide (stop chuckling, I'm serious!), Divison A

[Ant10708]

yawn

[Dole]

The majority of US Christians voted Bush. Does that mean that Christianity is inherently stupid?

Incidental, but yes.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Ant10708

yawn

Hey look, it's Vinth's back-up opinion that no one values!

[davinxtk]

Actually fuzzbot I pretty much second Ant's assessment of the situation.
Personally I think Abcdxxxx has revealed himself of late as a crazy jew and for the most part I agree with you, but neither of you seems apt to shut up anytime soon and someone had to say it.

[Abcdxxxx]

Well that's pretty affirming that I can be a "crazy Jew". I guess Davin agrees with me that we can attribute insane behavior to Religion....even the Muslim one. Thanks Davin!

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by davinxtk

Actually fuzzbot I pretty much second Ant's assessment of the situation.
Personally I think Abcdxxxx has revealed himself of late as a crazy jew and for the most part I agree with you, but neither of you seems apt to shut up anytime soon and someone had to say it.

Um, if I was trying to portray ABC as actually being 'funny' or mildly interesting and creative then that would be missing the whole point. He's boring, and so are his diary entries, you yawning should pretty much sum up how you feel about him so I guess I did a good job representing him.

[Abcdxxxx]

Thousands flock to see 'divine' calf
From correspondents in Cairo
February 14, 2006
THOUSANDS of people flocked to southern Egypt today to seek blessing from a calf they believe was born as God's reply to the publication in Europe of cartoons depicting the prophet, police said.

Some 20,000 thousand people had gathered in front of Mohammed Abu Dif's house in the village of Tunis to see the holy mammal, whose skin folds when he was born reportedly formed the words "There is no God but Allah", a police official said on condition of anonymity.http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html[img][/img]

[davinxtk]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Well that's pretty affirming that I can be a "crazy Jew". I guess Davin agrees with me that we can attribute insane behavior to Religion....even the Muslim one. Thanks Davin!

No, you can attribute insane behavior to insane people. Jews on the whole aren't crazy. There are many different sects of Jewish culture, as well. There are hasidic jews, orthodox jews, reform jews, jews for jesus, etc. Spread out among these many sects are crazy jews. Now, when I say crazy jews, I don't mean a jew who happens to be crazy. I refer specifically to a certain type of person. This type of person believes that every attack against every member of their race/religion/creed/whateverhaveyou may as well be an attack against them personally. This goes for crazy jews, crazy ******s, crazy indians (who most probably would prefer the term crazy native americans) or whatever crazy culture you belong to. No personal offense intended, Abcdxxxx, but the beliefs you've expressed regarding jews, their treatment, your opinions on this, and reactions to it have proven to me that you are a crazy jew.

I'm sure you don't really give a shit, but I felt compelled to explain myself.

[Abcdxxxx]

You might think you're above persecution because you seperate yourself from "those Jews", but history has taught us differently. Perhaps genocide talk is something you read in text books, but a lot of us have experienced it first hand, or heard first hand accounts from our parents. Why shouldn't I take my families experiences personally? There's a reason why Jewish phillanthropy leads the way in all areas of human rights causes. I don't consider those Jews to be the Crazy Jews. What do you say to Scru, and Fuzzbot , who do the exact same thing, because they feel as though I'm personally attacking them, and every Muslim when I say critical things meant to be directed at "crazies" and criminals?

And now, for extra credit, can you tell me which exact Islamic sects we can pinpoint as crazy ?

[davinxtk]

I don't think I've ever met someone who uses the word genocide as often as you do, sir, but when I do I'll be sure to call them crazy too.
I also don't really regard myself as being above persecution, I simply don't find persecution to be an apt basis for any type of action, except of course immediate self-preservation.
This goes way deeper than your family members' experiences, though. I don't hold it against you that you argue on behalf of jews when comments are made about them, just like I don't hold like actions against Scu and Fuzzbot regarding muslims. What I do feel is unnecessary is your incessant need to draw on hundreds of years of history to make your point.
Yes, jews have been discriminated against in the past.
Should that be a basis for or influence on any type of action? No. Humans should be treated as humans. Many jews were put through the wringer, and many more died. Does that make the future generations any more special? Only to those who survived the moment. Asking anyone else to level with this mentally or emotionally is patently absurd. Empathy is overrated as a means.

To bring up an old topic (which I made an incredibly long post in and then lost it immediately before submitting), the carving of Israel should have had no basis in who was there HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO. Mandate Palestine should have been left just the way it was, in once piece, and everyone there should have been told to put up or shut up. Instead of Israel uprooting native Palestinians and shipping them westward (or wherever the fuck they shipped them) the country should have remained ONCE PIECE. You seem to think that just because at one point things were owned by jews, they should ever be that way. That's like if a Native American group were to demand the legal rights to all of Cape Cod because their ancestors were the first to groom this land. You and I would scoff at them, call them crazy fucking indians, and tell them to go screw. If, however, they were jews trying to claim ancestral land, I'd see you supporting them fully.

There's a sense of unity among jews that is largely their undoing in the public eye. It's even part of your religious texts to treat jews in more trustworthy and honest manners than gentiles. This isn't to say that the Torah advocates the wholesale raping and pillaging of non-Israelite peoples and property, but then again who was the one who said that Geggy's anti-zionism was akin to blood libels? It's comments like that that make you a crazy jew.

Now, on to the extra credit. This is the easy part.

You want crazy Islamic sects? I've got a sweet list for you:

Aden-Abyan Islamic Army
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya
Hamas
Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Ansar al-Islam
Al-Qaeda
Asbat Al-Ansar
Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain
Jaish-e-Mohammed
Jaish Ansar al-Sunna
Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi
Lashkar-e-Toiba
Maktab al-Khadamat
Muslim Brotherhood
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan
Takfir wal-Hijra
Kurdish-Hizbullah
Hofstad Network

Robbed in part from Wikipedia, this is a list of the ones you've likely heard of before. You want some great public agencies to attack as being the most towel-laiden of the towelheads?

Al-Barakaat (Al-Qaida front)
Al-Wafa Humanitarian Organization (Al-Qaida front)
Benevolence International Foundation (Al-Qaida front)
Global Relief Foundation (Al-Qaida front)
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (Hamas)
Konsojaya Trading Company (Jemaah Islamiyah front)

Boom.


This is the internet, buddy, do a little research and you can unearth the craziest of the crazies in no time.

[Abcdxxxx]

Holy shit, Davin. Great with the non-sequitors. You're all over the place, sounding like a lunatic in your own right.

1) You listed Islamic Terror organizations, not SECTS.

2) Your "put up or shut" up concept was basically what happened. Nobody was uprooted. They just "put up". Many Arabs did return. Mandate Palestine, as you refer to it, was never a country. It was an occupied territory. One in which both Jews and Arabs resided. Is this where I have to ask if you believe in the right to self determination?

3) When I speak of genocide, I'm not talking about hundreds of years ago, I'm talking post-Holocaust pogroms. I realize you think I'm talking like Reparations talk, but these are recent events, and THIS generation. Israel is full of refuseniks, and exiles who are still being targeted for their Jewishness. Ever heard of those Hamas guys?