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  #26  
Geggy Geggy is offline
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Old May 20th, 2006, 01:32 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranxer
i don't spend much time on the theories that have been presented by various groups, i spend time trying to figure out how the official version is true or not and i'm not satisfied at all.

again, i don't know what really happened i just havn't seen any proof that what the bush admin and the commission says happened did.
Yeah here is a quick example (sorry if I'm going off the topic from "what hit the pentagon" issue, which I absolutely loathe):

Quote:
June 2001 The decade-old procedure for a quick response by the nation's air defense was changed. NORAD's military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearin...ord_ashley.pdf
Numerous reports confirming that the first fighter jet that had scrambled was after the pentagon hit:
Quote:
The day before this announcement, acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers in congressional testimony stated that the first fighters got airborne only after the Pentagon was hit at 9:37 a.m. [US Congress, 10/13/2001]

NORAD spokesman Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder also claimed no fighters launched anywhere until after the Pentagon was hit. [Boston Globe, 10/15/2001]

New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani later testifies before the 9/11
Commission that he found out from the White House at about 9:58 a.m. that the first fighters were not launched toward New York City until twelve minutes earlier—9:46 a.m. [9/11 Commission, 6/19/2004]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/c...01noradaccount
NORAD's official time sheet for United flight 175 (sept 18, 2001):
Quote:
DIRECTORATE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, NORTH AMERICAN AEROSPACE DEFENSE COMMAND,

250 S Peterson Blvd, Suite 116, PETERSON AFB, CO 80914-3190

(719) 554-6889 Website: http://www.norad.mil/

NORAD’s Response Times

United Airlines Flight 175 – Boston enroute to Los Angeles

FAA Notification to NEADS 0843

Fighter Scramble Order (Otis ANGB, Falmouth, Mass. Same 2 F-15s as Flight 11) 0846

Fighters Airborne 0852

Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 2) 0902 (estimated)

Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 8 min****/71
miles
From the 9/11 commission report:
Quote:
Military Notification and Response. The first indication that the NORAD air defenders had of the second hijacked aircraft, United 175, came in a phone call from New York Center to NEADS at 9:03.The notice came at about the time the plane was hitting the South Tower.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
So who's telling the truth, Kevin?

Maybe it's about time you take this issue more seriously, Kevin...

Here's a good place to start, Kevin...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/p...ct=911_project
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 20th, 2006, 05:21 PM       
How could I possibly take this any more seriously with you two jokers involved???

I think (much like you two), the "experts" you've cited have an agenda in positing these conspiracy theories. You skirt that agenda by pretending that you're just interested in the truth. But the truth to you is anything that encourages what you already believe. You don't believe the 9/11 commission, yet you'l buy anything said on conspiracy theory websites.

So there's a discrepancy over what times the planes precisely hit the towers and/or the pentagon, or the time that fighter jets took off?

I need help with this, Geggy. All of these times and numbers, can you please translate it all for me? Tell me what this leads you to believe. What really happened on 9/11 you guys, for reals.
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Old May 20th, 2006, 09:44 PM       
Kevin I know you think you're being clever but calm down. They're just being skeptical and so far havent made any claims beyond their reasonable doubts. What you are doing is basically the same as a fundamentalist christian badgering an evolutionist for THE MISSING LINK WHERE IT IT, HUH FUCKER IF ITS TRUE THEN ITS THERE FIND IT WHERE IS IT?

except in this case evolution is proven whereas what they're suggesting would be the beggining of some theory. You have to start somewhere with everything. If I see a guy holding a gun at someone and hes not wearing a cop uniform I dont look for proof that he is in fact not a cop and check his pockets for ID. People are allowed to have doubts, and make reasonable assumptions without having every possible bit of information available, sicne that is quite impossible.

Stop being mad that they arent presenting an onviously unreasonable suggestion that you actually can shoot down rather than skepticism.
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Old May 20th, 2006, 11:46 PM       
Bubba, we can't continue this way. I love you, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBubba
Kevin I know you think you're being clever but calm down. They're just being skeptical and so far havent made any claims beyond their reasonable doubts.
Bubba, I know you think you're thinking, but calm down. This thing you're doing is actually fan-boy masturbation all over your keyboard.

It's only recently that Ranxer and Geggy have muted their rhetoric a bit. I wouldn't be pressing them on the matter if I didn't already know some of the batshit crazy stuff they think about 9/11.



Quote:
What you are doing is basically the same as a fundamentalist christian badgering an evolutionist for THE MISSING LINK WHERE IT IT, HUH FUCKER IF ITS TRUE THEN ITS THERE FIND IT WHERE IS IT?

except in this case evolution is proven whereas what they're suggesting would be the beggining of some theory. You have to start somewhere with everything. If I see a guy holding a gun at someone and hes not wearing a cop uniform I dont look for proof that he is in fact not a cop and check his pockets for ID. People are allowed to have doubts, and make reasonable assumptions without having every possible bit of information available, sicne that is quite impossible.
Uhhhhh......ok. Except that they've dug up a minority of so-called experts to refute a commonly accepted event. Again, they aren't doing it out of a genuine concern for the truth. The truth is a subjective and decided matter for them. The U.S. government lied to the American people, and they're covering it up for some reason.

Quote:
Stop being mad that they arent presenting an onviously unreasonable suggestion that you actually can shoot down rather than skepticism.
Sure thing, sport. And hey, since we're asking favors, the next time you get a hard on over one of my posts, try contributing something of substance, ok? Thanks slugger.
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Old May 21st, 2006, 12:00 PM       
Don't fret lover. Soon you will make an honest woman out of me when the manager at Yakadoo's restaraunt and bar gives you the ok to take 2 nights off for our honeymoon.

It really doesnt seem like they have any theories on this, but if they do then by all means badger them. From an objective perpective it just looks like them bein like "Hey, anyone notice the plane that hit the pentagon was shaped like a giant paperclip?" and you going "why? why would it be a paperclip. It may look like one but why? I don't believe you until you say why?". I'd like it better if we didn't believe them because their sources are questionable rather than because they can't explain what they believe they see before them.

I myself beleieve that the government was storing secret files on the creation of the AIDS virus in the WTCs and the Pentagon and was forced to destroy all knowledge of this when the original creators threatened to go public. Also I believe that Dick Cheney is a crab-person. I have at lerast 7 websites with scary flash videos that support my claims, so it must be credible.
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Old May 21st, 2006, 06:21 PM       
Does anyone have a direct citation from a credible source that people saw a 'missile' strike the Pentagon?

Does anyone have a direct citation from a credible source that the jet engine piece (presumably attachd to the missile, I guess...) was too small to be a 737?

This is all generally absurd, but let's hear more about this.
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Old May 21st, 2006, 07:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
How could I possibly take this any more seriously with you two jokers involved???

I think (much like you two), the "experts" you've cited have an agenda in positing these conspiracy theories.
What would you consider conspiracy theories in the previous post I've made? It doesn't take an expert to figure out that there's something wrong with the official version that's put out by the bush administration.

Quote:
You skirt that agenda by pretending that you're just interested in the truth. But the truth to you is anything that encourages what you already believe. You don't believe the 9/11 commission, yet you'l buy anything said on conspiracy theory websites.
You're wrong. Www.cooperativeresearch.org isn't a conspiracy theory website. It's a website consistent of information from various mainstream sources, including the kean commission, that are put together in order to form a timeline. It's easy for you to avoid to look into it and quickly dismiss it as a conspiracy theory website because you're just too scared and gutless to face the facts.

Quote:
So there's a discrepancy over what times the planes precisely hit the towers and/or the pentagon, or the time that fighter jets took off?

I need help with this, Geggy. All of these times and numbers, can you please translate it all for me? Tell me what this leads you to believe. What really happened on 9/11 you guys, for reals.
It's basically easy to understand my previous post, again you're just in denial.

Rumsfeld changed the policy that in case there is an emergency in the skies, he would be the only one to contact for approval to order the scrambling of fighter jets. Because there are conflicting reports of rumsfeld's whereabouts during the time of the attacks, he may have deliberately kept himself out of reach during the attacks until it was over. There are mountains of statements and sources showing that fighter jets weren't deployed anywhere in the US until after 9:37 when the pentagon had been hit.

But then few days later, NORAD pulled an official time sheet out of their asses and it confirmed that fighter jets were deployed at 8:46, three minutes after they were informed of the united 175 hijacking. But it wouldn't make sense to scramble fighter jets at the time when American airline 11 struck the first tower and there were two other fighter jets already previously deployed to look after AA11 fifteen minutes beforehand. Clearly those two jets that were airborne halfway to NYC looking after AA11 should have already been aware of the united 175 hijacking before it reached it's destination. F15s are able to reach a maximum speed of somewhere over 1300 mph.

Then, lo and behold, times were manipulated in the kean commission saying that NEADS weren't contacted of the united 175 hijacking until 9:03, at the same time it has hit the second tower and it was too late.

Clearly, this does NOT add up.
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  #33  
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Old May 21st, 2006, 08:32 PM       
geggy, hon, it's just kinda hard to take you seriously after some of the posts you've made in the past. banned photos? real levees?
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 21st, 2006, 08:58 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggy
It's easy for you to avoid to look into it and quickly dismiss it as a conspiracy theory website because you're just too scared and gutless to face the facts.
No Geggy, you silly little goose, it's not the fact that I refuse to read one website that makes me "scared" to face your propaganda. It's like you're asking me to prove that the sky is blue, sure I could do it, but why do I have to?

The fact that the ASCE, as well as I dunno, everyone else in the world with a brain confirmed that a plane hit the Pentagon is enough for me. An article publised the day after the wreckage confirmed that Fairfax County firemen recovered pieces of the fuselage. Discovery of both black boxes also weights against you. And again, what about the very real people who died there that day? All but one of the people on that flight were identified by over 50 forensic experts and scientists from Walter Reed. Photos such as this one confirm that there was plane wreckage at the site.

Now, for all of this to be false, it would require that SOMEBODY planted fake debrit, it would've required that not only the government, but almost every major media outlet, was complicit in this cover up.

So, please don't tell me that you and Ranxer don't have any ideas on what happened that day. You're willingness to jump on every bullshit conspiracy exposes you for what you are (along with previous posts about PNAC and other crazy global domination garbage). You're not interested in the truth, you're only interested in trashing the U.$. and more specifically the Bush regime. Give it a fucking rest.

And btw, before you call me "gutless" again, why don't you look up a family member of a passenger on 757, and share your ideas with them. I'm guessing they'd appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
It really doesnt seem like they have any theories on this, but if they do then by all means badger them.
Look closely at Geggy's avatar.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 07:11 AM       
I've alway said I believed a plane hit the pentagon. You can clearly see the tail of the plane in the videos. This is why I despise the "what hit the pentagon" argument because it's easier and more covenient to debunk and ridcule the conspiracy theorists who thinks it was something other than a plane that hit the pentagon.

"Hey how do you explain the secuirty stand down on 9/11? Was it a failure or was it deliberate?"

"Huuh uuuh uuuh...a plane hit the pentagon" (walks away)

Just because a plane hit the pentagon, it doesn't mean that crazy jihadists could have done it. In fact...prove it to me that they did.

Sorry italian, you're just too right wing to engage in this type of arguement. Why don't you go and soak yoursef into a pool of bacardi rum like a normal republican would?
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:34 AM       
Right, he's too "right wing" to engage in a conversation about 9/11 being planned by the U.S. government in order to justify global domination.

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Old May 22nd, 2006, 09:57 AM       
jeez, I cant believe I have to do your homework for you. but I dont mind it anyway...

Last 58 of the 258 points of the warnings the bush administration had received. You needn't read the entire page but check the behavoir of the bush administration in the aftermath of the attacks...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t..._9/11=warnings

Wargame exercises and emercengy drills to terrorism between 1991 and 2001...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t...itaryExercises

The timeline of lead hijacker, M. Atta's whereabout prior to 9/11. He was implicated in the israel bombing yet he was able to get in and out of US without being touched by the FBI who had warrants to arrest him...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t...rs=mohamedAtta

The obstruction of investigation by the bush administration and the timeline of the 9/11 commission...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t...=911Commission

If you get mad... just take a break, back off and come back to it later. You will go through a period of denial, where you want it all not to be true. That is normal. I can't really get mad at you because I've been there. I've been on both sides of the fence at one point or another. Actually there might be several times you go through denial. Take a break, let it soak in... come back and do some more investigation. Its really a no brainer when it comes to the evidence.

Anyhoo I'm out and done with this. I'm officially retired...
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:00 AM       
I'm not mad, i'm laughing.

You bring light to my day. I might give you a sticky.
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  #39  
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:02 AM       
wow that was a quick response.

I guess you didn't click on the links unless you took up speed reading courses...
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:03 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggy
I guess you didn't click on the links
Bingo.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:04 AM       
I rest my case.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:08 AM       
You said that two fits ago.

And how does citing one website over and over and over again prove that there's this over abundance of proof on your side???

I mean, I shouldn't even have to ask that, but I guess I just did.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 04:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggy
The timeline of lead hijacker, M. Atta's whereabout prior to 9/11. He was implicated in the israel bombing yet he was able to get in and out of US without being touched by the FBI who had warrants to arrest him...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t...rs=mohamedAtta
You're talking about two different people.

Muhammed Atta = 9/11, Egyptian national, age 33
Mahmoud Abed Atta = Bus bombing, Palestinian, age 47.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blatta.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A96F948260
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_co...&x_article=363
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:39 PM       
Poor Geggy.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 11:22 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggy
Just because a plane hit the pentagon, it doesn't mean that crazy jihadists could have done it. In fact...prove it to me that they did.
You mean aside from the fact that Khalid al-Mihdhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaf al-Hazmi, and Salem al-Hazmi were all on the plane, all of whom had ties to Al Qaeda?

What about the surveillance video showing four of those five men ging through check points at Dulles?

So were they not really on the plane, or were they secretly agents of the Rummy???
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 11:03 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
Does anyone have a direct citation from a credible source that people saw a 'missile' strike the Pentagon?

Does anyone have a direct citation from a credible source that the jet engine piece (presumably attachd to the missile, I guess...) was too small to be a 737?
The only references i have say several witnesses reported.. they have names and dates but what's the point? its someones word and can't be considered too credible by itself, my point in bringing it up sometimes is that witnesses of the pentagon attack don't agree on what they saw. this is not a big deal and not a strong refutation of the government story, so generally i'm ignoring it in the future.

regarding the engine part, i am having difficulty wading through the conflicting information. I've never been convinced that it wasn't an engine part from flight 77 so I will be printing out what i think is the most solid info and questioning some of the 'experts' on the 'conspiracy' theory about it at a conference in Chicago next month.

Kevin keeps repeating that geggy and i believe every crack pot website that submits an alternative theory to the bush admins story, this is not the case. the list of sites i trust is very short, the list of sites i don't trust is actually growing..
i'd venture to guess that some of them will drop out after domains expire but its a big mess, especially if you've only started looking into this stuff recently.

geggy refers to some of the best sites, cooperativeresearch.org is pretty solid from my perspective, not anything close to a crackpot website. another trustable resource is www.globalresearch.ca
I'm not adding websites to my list by searching on google without knowing who exactly is behind the website. Who owns the domain, who is writing the info and who are they is pretty critical.

rather than rehash all this stuff i think i'll just be posting 'new' evidence or a review from the chicago conference.. if yer nearby and want to check it out, surf over to www.revealingthetruth.org i'm honestly going to try to play spot the crackpot while i'm there cause i bet there will be at least one presenter among the credible researchers but i really hope he/she gets pointed out by others before me. there will be more in the attendee category of course.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:22 PM       
www.globalresearch.ca has posted such gems as:

"The Hilarious Auschwitz Story"
"The HolyCo$t Lie is Finished"
"Jewish lies of omission about the Holocaust"
"Jewish Hate responsible for largest mass killing at Dachau".

Credible?
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:33 PM       
I'm a fan of "Innocent Texas Citizen Targeted With Deadly Electronic Weapons".
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:58 PM       
michel chossudovsky knows what he's talking about and printing on global research.. the haulocaust industry is a tough subject, easily and hugely attacked by the headlines, people generally don't look into the questions or details. Choss is mostly in agreement with others i respect on the subject like Norman Finkelstein author of the Haulocaust Industry.

being on the edge and going against the mainstream means you will make enemies so i'm not surprised by the response here.

regarding electronic weapons, i've personally been subject to a minor em weapon, the research has been shown on major outlets like the history channel, folks this is old stuff, if you doubt it, just wait, cause it will not go away no matter how far you stick your head in the sand.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 04:11 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranxer
being on the edge and going against the mainstream means you will make enemies so i'm not surprised by the response here.
Yeah, your anti-semitism is so retro.

Quote:
regarding electronic weapons, i've personally been subject to a minor em weapon, the research has been shown on major outlets like the history channel, folks this is old stuff, if you doubt it, just wait, cause it will not go away no matter how far you stick your head in the sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Kaczynski
all these technical advances taken together have created world in which the average man's fate is no longer in his own hands or in the hands of his neighbors and friends, but in those of politicians, corporation executives and remote, anonymous technicians and bureaucrats whom he as an individual has no power to influence. 21 The same process will continue in the future.
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