daphne's and drumming's vegan thread

[mubert]

Buddha, dont you fel ANYTHING when you lay a slab of meat on a sub sammich? Doesnt it bother you in the LEAST BIT to do so, when youre a vegan?!

[nothing4buddha]

it bugs me a lot, i always give ppl less meat than im supposed to :X

[mubert]

I KNEW IT! GUARDS, GET HER :undercoverbrother

[Jixby Phillips]

what is it with recent group of awful new people attributing cliched, old-as-dirt quotes or phrases to current movies and tv shows?

[glowbelly]

it's YOUR fault, mister

[nothing4buddha]

d'oh i went to the doctor and they said im having massive fluid loss cos of lack of protein and i might not be able to be vegan anymore cos i could get really sick and im already anemic :X

[ziggytrix]

It reminds me of how people immediately get hostile in the presence of a Christian or someone otherwise religious.

People don't like being proselytized. I don't get hostile around Christians unless they come up to me with loaded questions like "so what Church do YOU go to" - and it's something every non or formerly religious person in the American South has to deal with and actually I don't usually get hostile, I ususally just leave. And honestly, it's such a rare occurrence that someone gets really bad about it, but when they do, it prejudices you against the next dozen religious folk you meet. :/

But I always throw hot dogs at the vegans - because the One True God appreciates the gesture.

[mubert]

Uh, Jixby, I've NEVER SEEN undercover brother, thats not a quote from it. HERE :UNDERCOVER THERE DOODLER

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by drumming4buddha

d'oh i went to the doctor and they said im having massive fluid loss cos of lack of protein and i might not be able to be vegan anymore cos i could get really sick and im already anemic :X

sucks to be an vegetarian living in omnivore's body, eh?

[Anonymous]

EAT! EAT! RED DEAD MEAT!
EAT! EAT! RED BLOOD MEAT!

[nothing4buddha]

i might have to go back to being vegetarian the only thing i might be able to eat now is like cheese. milk/eggs just gross me out

[mubert]

MUBERT9: dont you like eat tofu or get soy or something to make up for the lack of protein?
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: yeah but my body is just being weird and i guess its not absorbing a lot of it
MUBERT9: man that sucks fat indian infected balls
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i have a high metabolism so it burns the protein fast so i need a lot more protein than the average joe
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: werd ;(
MUBERT9: THATS THE PROBLEM
MUBERT9: I DONT
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: its either drop the vegan thing, get sick, or get a fucking IV :-(
MUBERT9: well, you might need to ingest some cow tit fluid
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i dont think i can
MUBERT9: hell thats what im gonna call it from now on
MUBERT9: err
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: lol
MUBERT9: lemme see
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i think the only thing i might be able to handle is cheese :/
MUBERT9: doesnt fish have protein?
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: there is no way in hell im eating meat
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i would throw up so bad
MUBERT9: fish isnt that bad
MUBERT9: is it?
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i'd barf everywhere :/
MUBERT9: EVEN WITH SUSHI?!
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: yah
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: i've only eaten fish once in my life and it made me very sick
MUBERT9: well, i know that eating about 40,000 unborn salmon fetuses DOES sound kinda barbaric
MUBERT9: but hey
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: o_o
MUBERT9: theyre yummy
MUBERT9: im going to hell if gods a vegan
MUBERT9: huh
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: lol
MUBERT9: whatev im gonna go be a nerd and post this conversation to exploit you
DIS LOCATEDSHLDR: ok

[Daphne]

Sorry to hear that Drumming, is there any way you could try eating more nuts/tofu if it's just protien you're lacking in?
Still, better to listen to a doctor and be safe. It's not good if you're gettting sick

[MLE]

glowdear, this is more what i was thinking:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/26/v...m_myths_02.htm


as i said: the correct form of b12 cannot be absorbed without eating some sort of animal byproduct as well. i learned this from several teachers in my high school, and also researched it afterwards. it's probably the scariest myth out there in the vegan world, and scarier that close to no one knows it's a myth that you can still get b12 from veggies.

i just want you girls to be healthy. i'm probably going to go back to semi-veg. i might go back to veg again afterwards, but i doubt it. i can't go more than three or so weeks without feeling tired. it's very difficult to work enough protein into my diet. if any of you girls have suggestions, PM ir IM me ;> i'd like to be able to be veg agan for a time. i enjoyed it. i felt a lot healthier without red meat, but then again, i love rare steak. there are some things that are just so hard of a decision.

[Carnivore]

The Red Sox lost in front of my very eyes, so I'm in a bad mood tonight

Which is why I said it's impossible to be cruelty-free.

You still used the obnoxious term cruelty-free. You could have said it's impossible to completely adhere to a vegan lifestyle. Just having that phrase in your vernacular costs you a point or two.

it bugs me a lot, i always give ppl less meat than im supposed to :X

You should be fired immediately. If your ludicrous values prevent you from doing your job correctly, find another job.

d'oh i went to the doctor and they said im having massive fluid loss cos of lack of protein and i might not be able to be vegan anymore cos i could get really sick and im already anemic :X

Just because your mind says a vegan diet is right doesn't mean your body agrees. You can't synthesize that warm, fuzzy feeling you get from saving animals into proteins :P

[Anonymous]

I'd have to concur. If you gave me less meat on my sandwich because of your own eating preferences, I'd have to hammer-punch you in the clavicle.

[FS]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

People don't like being proselytized. I don't get hostile around Christians unless they come up to me with loaded questions like "so what Church do YOU go to" - and it's something every non or formerly religious person in the American South has to deal with and actually I don't usually get hostile, I ususally just leave. And honestly, it's such a rare occurrence that someone gets really bad about it, but when they do, it prejudices you against the next dozen religious folk you meet. :/

In everyday life I don't see it that much, because people of course tend to stick with people who hold roughly the same values - mostly it's attempts at getting me spontaneously converted by characters at the mall or trainway station.

On the internet it's a whole different story though. Someone only has to say "I'm a Christian" or in this case "I'm a vegan", and it might even be entirely on topic, but there's always a few ready to leap forward and treat the person like they need to apologize for the bad apples of their faith. They prod them into a corner with questions to, dependant on the situation, either prove that the Christian can't be a perfect Christian, or the vegan can't be a perfect vegan.

I'm not saying that that's what everyone does, because there's been plenty of civilized exchange of information in this thread, and it's shown that people can ask normal questions to vegans. But some just have a knee-jerk reaction that makes them think "Oh. Vegan/Christian. (S)He's going to try to convert me. Better put my defenses up."

[Dole]

d'oh i went to the doctor and they said im having massive fluid loss cos of lack of protein and i might not be able to be vegan anymore cos i could get really sick and im already anemic :X

There are readily available vegan protein supplements (in powder form, just add to water or juice)...I use one, cos its the cheapest and tastiest and good for muscle growth, but I am not veg or anything.

[Skulhedface]

Originally Posted by FS

In everyday life I don't see it that much, because people of course tend to stick with people who hold roughly the same values - mostly it's attempts at getting me spontaneously converted by characters at the mall or trainway station.

On the internet it's a whole different story though. Someone only has to say "I'm a Christian" or in this case "I'm a vegan", and it might even be entirely on topic, but there's always a few ready to leap forward and treat the person like they need to apologize for the bad apples of their faith. They prod them into a corner with questions to, dependant on the situation, either prove that the Christian can't be a perfect Christian, or the vegan can't be a perfect vegan.

I'm not saying that that's what everyone does, because there's been plenty of civilized exchange of information in this thread, and it's shown that people can ask normal questions to vegans. But some just have a knee-jerk reaction that makes them think "Oh. Vegan/Christian. (S)He's going to try to convert me. Better put my defenses up."

While this is somewhat true, since the American south was mentioned and I happen to live in it, here's the perfect example of militant Christians reinforcing their beliefs:

When I drive to work, a 20 minute drive, I pass by no less than 5 billboards asking me if I've found Jesus, that I will be burning in hell if I didn't, that I NEED to go to First Baptist Church right now and save myself!

When I flip on the TV, I see no less than three local commercials every couple of hours telling me that this guy's taekwondo academy sets a religious example and discipline and that they are 'on fire for Jesus', or that Jesus wants me to buy Home Furniture's futons (and since they have Jesus' endorsement, to buy futons anywhere else is HERESY!)

...Surprisingly, for a state called "Sportsman's Paradise", which for some reason has more hunters per capita than almost any other state, I do know a surprising amount of people who've turned vegetarian, and my questioning of it only goes as far as to ask "Is it a dietary thing?", in which case the answers are almost universally affirmative.

[Daphne]

Originally Posted by Carnivore

You still used the obnoxious term cruelty-free. You could have said it's impossible to completely adhere to a vegan lifestyle. Just having that phrase in your vernacular costs you a point or two.

Ah well, I'm not losing any sleep over it

Originally Posted by MLE

glowdear, this is more what i was thinking:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/26/v...m_myths_02.htm


as i said: the correct form of b12 cannot be absorbed without eating some sort of animal byproduct as well. i learned this from several teachers in my high school, and also researched it afterwards. it's probably the scariest myth out there in the vegan world, and scarier that close to no one knows it's a myth that you can still get b12 from veggies.

i just want you girls to be healthy. i'm probably going to go back to semi-veg. i might go back to veg again afterwards, but i doubt it. i can't go more than three or so weeks without feeling tired. it's very difficult to work enough protein into my diet. if any of you girls have suggestions, PM ir IM me ;> i'd like to be able to be veg agan for a time. i enjoyed it. i felt a lot healthier without red meat, but then again, i love rare steak. there are some things that are just so hard of a decision.

Yikes that's creepy. Thank you for posting it though.
I just had a blood test, so we'll see about my iron etc when the results come back. I wish I could find a farm that treated their chickens well so I could eat eggs again. I've honestly thought about getting my own as a pet for that very reason :/

[Carnivore]

Ah well, I'm not losing any sleep over it

And therein lies the problem

[MetalMilitia]

Originally Posted by Chojin

I'd have to hammer-punch you in the clavicle.

lmao im so stealing that saying.

[Daphne]

Carnivore, I don't post in threads where you talk about eating meat and put you down, so why do you feel the need to be so pushy about your beliefs? You like meat, you eat it and that's great for you, but why do you care so much that other people don't? If we like animals, and choose not to eat them, it's just more for you, right?

If there were no vegans, you'd have nothing to bitch about, so you should thank us

[MLE]

Originally Posted by Daphne

Yikes that's creepy. Thank you for posting it though.
I just had a blood test, so we'll see about my iron etc when the results come back. I wish I could find a farm that treated their chickens well so I could eat eggs again. I've honestly thought about getting my own as a pet for that very reason :/

i found the entire article, but i don't like the intro or the undertone. it starts out with a scare tactic of having miscarriges because of malnutrition. i don't think any of the vegans or vegitarians that are posting here have put that little thought into their diet, but this article does have useful information. i would have posted a better article if i had found it, that didn't have the scare tactic bullcrap.

the "myths" it talks on are as follows:

Meat consumption contributes to famine and depletes the Earth's natural resources.
Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources.
The body can convert omega-6 fatty acids into omega-3 fatty acids as it needs.
The body's needs for vitamin A can be entirely obtained from plant foods.
Meat-eaters have higher rates of heart and kidney disease, cancer, obesity and osteoporosis than vegetarians.
Saturated fats cause heart disease and cancer, and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people.
Vegetarians live longer and have more energy and endurance than meat-eaters.
The "cave man" diet was low-fat and/or vegetarian. (i don't know where they got that myth, as i've never heard it.)
Meat and saturated fat consumption have increased in the 20th century, with a corresponding increase in heart disease and cancer.
Soy products are adequate substitutes for meat and dairy products.
The human body is not designed for meat consumption.
Eating animal flesh causes violent, aggressive behaviour in humans.
Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins.
Eating meat or animal products is less "spiritual" than eating only plant foods. (same with this one)
Eating animal foods is inhumane.


this is a small summary that's at the bottom of the whole long thing. i tried to cut out the unneeded comments in the excerpt i took:

As a cleansing diet, vegetarianism is a good choice. Several health conditions (e.g., gout) can often be ameliorated by a temporary reduction in animal products with an increase of plant foods. But such measures must not be continuous throughout life: there are vital nutrients found only in animal products that we must ingest for optimal health. ...
"Biochemical individuality" is a subject worth clarifying. Coined by biochemist Roger Williams, PhD, the term refers to the fact that different people require different nutrients based on their unique genetic make-up. Ethnic and racial background figure in this concept as well. ... A diet that works for one may not work as well for someone else. As a practitioner, I've seen several patients following a low-fat, low-protein, high-carbohydrate diet with severe health problems: obesity, candidiasis, hypothyroidism, leaky gut syndrome, anaemia and generalised fatigue. Most of these people have been vegetarians. Because of the widespread rhetoric that a vegetarian diet is "always healthier" than a diet that includes meat or animal products, these people see no reason to change their diet, even though that is the cause of their problems. ...

Conversely, some people do very well on little or no meat and remain healthy as lacto-vegetarians or lacto-ovo-vegetarians. The reason for this is because these diets are healthier for those people, not because they're healthier in general. However, a total absence of animal products, whether meat, fish, insects, eggs, butter or dairy, is to be avoided. Though it may take years, problems will eventually ensue for these people. The reason for this is simple evolution: humanity evolved eating animal foods and fats as part of its diet, and our bodies are suited and accustomed to them. One cannot change evolution in a few years.

When it comes to good nutrition ... humanity has been consuming animal products and saturated fats for thousands of years as part of its diet. ...

this also has all the resources listed at the bottom of the article if you're wondering on credibility.



also, as a sort of disclaimer, i like all you girls, and i think you should be able to eat how you want to. the reason i'm posting this is to make sure you're informed while doing so.

[Daphne]

Thank you again, but here's a quote from the link you posted:

Regarding Dr. Byrnes' second myth, I agree that vegans have a difficult time getting any vitamin B12, and it is possible that if a known essential nutrient is missing from the diet, others that are unknown may also be deficient.

However, based on the current science, B12 is the only known missing nutrient, and it can easily be found in eggs, dairy, and fish, and only small amounts are needed. If someone wants to be a vegan, based on the evidence to date, it is wise for them to take supplements of B12 for safety, and they can find all the other known required nutrients in their diets.

One study shows that vegans can get B12 from a seaweed, but it is hard to assume that this is completely reliable source (Suzuki H, Serum vitamin B12 levels in young vegans who eat brown rice. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo) 1995 Dec;41(6):587-94). In that study, vegan children showed no signs of B12 deficiency (although it can take years to develop) and there was no difference in their serum B12 compared to omnivore children. I would not personally rely on this source of B12.

The conclusion is that while vegan diets are more difficult to practice healthfully, the diet I recommend, which is mostly vegetarian, whole, natural foods (mainly vegetables, fruits, legumes, whole grains, seeds, and nuts), with small amounts of organic eggs, dairy and wild fish, are maintainable, healthy, and well documented in medical literature.

Michael Janson, MD

I do indeed take supplements, and like I said I'm pretty healthy
If a doctor told me I needed to eat eggs, then I would of course, but I'd prefer not to.

I know lots of unhealthy vegans, too and I know unhealthy omnivores. It's *hard* to do a vegan diet, but it's not impossible.