Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Emu Emu is offline
Level 29 ♂
Emu's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Emu is probably a real personEmu is probably a real person
Old May 29th, 2005, 03:56 PM        Orson Scott Card is an Asshat
I figure this has more to do with political crap than the literature itself, so this forum seems appropriate.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034

Quote:
As I write this there are enormous threads on DailyKos and Fark about This article by Orson Scott Card. Card is known to most people for his science fiction, including one of the most popular SF novels of the late 20th century, Ender's Game.

Many people are astonished to learn that the man who wrote about "that poor little boy" is such a rabid Fascist. But Card has always been a rabid Fascist, as well as several other species of asshat, and none of his works demonstrate that better than the sad tale of Ender Wiggin itself.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 05:43 PM       
The message of Ender's Game is conservative, but Ender is in no way Hitler.

I doubt this account as well, btw.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Rez Rez is offline
YOU GUYS ARE DOING GREAT
Rez's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Davis, CA
Rez is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 05:45 PM       
Quote:
I know that crowd. I've heard them jeer at all the values that most Americans still care about, laughing at religious people, at the middle class, at suburbanites, at the poor ignorant saps who don't think correct thoughts all the time. You know -- the citizens of Heartland. Those poor sentimental fools who stood in line to see The Passion and who like Adam Sandler movies and who get tears in their eyes when they see the American flag and whose hearts break a little when it burns.

And yet the irony is that the reason the radical Islamists hate the West so much is primarily because of the unchecked and uncheckable excesses of the Smartish. From Hollywood to newspeople to the soft-subject professors in our universities, the culture that makes people like Osama bin Laden want to blow us up or crush us into dust is the culture of the R-rated movie, the anti-religion intellectual, the glorified abortionist, the babies-without-marriage crowd, and the what-me-worry media elite.

Osama isn't much worried about Christianity. Why should he? If a Muslim converts to Christianity in a Muslim country, he'll just be killed. Christianity, despite our apparent numbers, has been reduced to nothing more dangerous to Islam than a swarm of gnats.

It's a lot harder to keep dirty movies and atheistic Western ideas out of Muslim lands. That's the established church of the West these days -- liberty without responsibility, filth praised as "edgy" and virtue despised as "bourgeouis."

If the Islamists ever ruled the world -- and only a fool thinks that history offers some guarantee against it -- then America's unpatriotic elite will realize ...

No they won't. Whom do I think I'm kidding? They'll still blame it on Bush or the Christian right or the oil companies, because the central tenet of their belief is that their side can do no wrong.
i think he's going crazy. he's allowing the muslims who went apeshit over newsweek completely abrogate self-responsibility of their actions, and then goes further in blaming r-rated western movies as part of the root cause as to why this is happening.

never mind that they're fundamentalists, he'll just find some way to vilify his own personal enemies by applying a larger problem to them.

getting sentimental over under-acheivers simply because it serves as an opposition to his object of hatred is short-sighted and more than a little stupid. since when is lowering the bar for everyone supposed to be intellectually acceptable? people against freedom of speech and who watch adam sandler movies are supposed to be what we aspire to? this is real america now?

what new low standards should we push forward to establish what messages are acceptable and how we should support our government?

i love the ender books, but as a blog writer and someone eager to spout folk psychology about an entire nation and treat it as fact, he's a fucking awful writer
__________________
Thanks, Moon!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 05:53 PM       
He's not justifying the extremists, he's pointing out that the immorality of Western culture - and the influence it's having in the Middle East - is the root cause of their actions.

Now, in that sense, I think he's partially correct. But I'm not advocating a change in our society by any means (at least, not to counter terrorism).
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Rez Rez is offline
YOU GUYS ARE DOING GREAT
Rez's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Davis, CA
Rez is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 05:57 PM       
what's the point, then? whay did he write what he did?
oh, shit, it wouldnt be (gasp) childish vilification would it? tell me it isn't the burnin-in-the-loins compulsion to merely attack the opposition with whatever's handy by means of bitter, mangled logic.
__________________
Thanks, Moon!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 06:00 PM       
I never said that he wasn't attacking the left. Which he was. Obviously.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
davinxtk davinxtk is offline
GO AWAY DONT POST HERE
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Up.
davinxtk is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:12 PM       
Quote:
And yet the irony is that the reason the radical Islamists hate the West so much is primarily because of the unchecked and uncheckable excesses of the Smartish. From Hollywood to newspeople to the soft-subject professors in our universities, the culture that makes people like Osama bin Laden want to blow us up or crush us into dust is the culture of the R-rated movie, the anti-religion intellectual, the glorified abortionist, the babies-without-marriage crowd, and the what-me-worry media elite.
Oh, right, it's got less to do with the fact that we've been blowing them the fuck up for the better part of a century (as Americans, at least -- let's not forget that this war spans millenia) than the fact that I can go pay $9.25 and see Keira Knightley's tits.

This guy's argument is so full of holes it's absurd.
__________________
(1:02:34 AM): and i think i may have gone a little too far and let her know that i actually do hate her, on some level, just because she's female
(1:03:33 AM): and now she's being all kinds of sensitive about it
(1:03:53 AM): i hate women
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Emu Emu is offline
Level 29 ♂
Emu's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Emu is probably a real personEmu is probably a real person
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:21 PM       
The man himself was full of holes to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
AngPur AngPur is offline
Senior Member
AngPur's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Coast America
AngPur is probably a spambot
Old May 29th, 2005, 11:59 PM       
So is he saying America suffered a terrorist attack because it was immoral? Isn't that what Osama himself was saying?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
But Charity will rarely buy you Thunderbird.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old May 31st, 2005, 11:11 AM       
Okay, this is a close to religous prejudice as you're ever going to hear me get.

Ready?

Orson is a Mormon. Anyone familliar with their belief system?

In addition;

He writes series sci fi. Not 'trilogies'. Not a single multi-book series. He writes franchises.

He also likes himself better than any sci fi writer since Ellison, and for my money he nevr wrote anything as good.

He is a genre writer on the level of Stephen King. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I've read a lot of both of them, and enjoyed them. In paper back they both give a fine return on the dollar.

But King doesn't present himself as anything but a good storyteller. Orson thinks the light of the universe shiones out his bung whenever he bends over.

On the other hand, I'm rather enjoying his Iron Man comic book. Or I will be until about the fifth issue when he inevitably starts with the irritating "I bet you never spent a lt of time really thinking deep religous thoughts like me" psuedo-Mormon ideology into it.

In short, there is no need at all to take anything this guy says with even the faintest degree of seriousness. There's nothing wromng with being a good pulp writer. There is a whole lot wrong with being a good pulp writer with delusions of grandeur. That's what got us Scientology.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old May 31st, 2005, 12:56 PM       
He sounds a lot like David Brin. Now that guy makes himself to be a real asshole.

Is it an epidemic amongst scifi writers?
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Emu Emu is offline
Level 29 ♂
Emu's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Emu is probably a real personEmu is probably a real person
Old May 31st, 2005, 01:01 PM       
When you have legions of nerds worshipping you, you feel big.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old May 31st, 2005, 01:09 PM       
Well, I've read plenty of interviews with authors that have inflated opinions of themselves, but these two seem to be really off the scale.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old May 31st, 2005, 04:47 PM       
Is Brin a Mormon, though?

'Cause Mormon's? Think that God turned native American's red so their embarasment at their sins would be more visible.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old May 31st, 2005, 05:22 PM       
Oh shit. I'm not sure where I fit in America anymore. I'm not particularly religious but there are a few Adam Sandler movies that made me giggle a bit.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Ant10708 Ant10708 is offline
Mocker
Ant10708's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Ant10708 is probably a spambot
Old Jun 2nd, 2005, 05:26 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
Is Brin a Mormon, though?

'Cause Mormon's? Think that God turned native American's red so their embarasment at their sins would be more visible.
There is nothing wrong with hating Mormons. They condemn more people to hell than hardcore southern Baptists.
__________________
I'm all for the idea of stoning the rapists, but to death...? That's a bit of a stretch, but I think the system will work. - Geggy
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Zbu Manowar Zbu Manowar is offline
Space Viking Repo Man
Zbu Manowar's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE Michigan
Zbu Manowar is probably a spambot
Old Jun 6th, 2005, 11:31 AM       
Quote:
Oh shit. I'm not sure where I fit in America anymore. I'm not particularly religious but there are a few Adam Sandler movies that made me giggle a bit.
You fit into the greater part of America who realizes there's more to life than playing out your own self-esteem issues with religion. Seriously, this country doesn't need a God, it needs a good fuck after a night of alcohol and good times with friends to put things in fucking perspective. Religion is this country is bullshit anyway, it's just another band-aid to cover up what is really wrong in this country and that problem is that the American Ideal of Perfection is quite hollow. But enough of my bullshit, let's cut to the heart of this:

Orson Scott Card is a shitty writer. I know this because I was given one of those 'how to write science fiction' books that he wrote and all he did was jack off about his shitty life and how he wrote and how he took this big piece of paper and drew a map of this story and blah blah what the fuck ever. The point is that sci-fi hit a slump where everything was a bland ripoff and they turned this into the frachises we see today whenever you go into a bookstore: nothing but reprints of the Golden Age and then the millions upon millions of bullshit covers that nobody would pick up for their cover price. And Card is a symbol of this turn into shit. And honestly, after reading that story, I think I know why I turned away from science fiction as well. At it's very heart it's turned from a good thing to a bad thing full of angry sadsacks trying to rationalize their stupid behavior problems.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Jun 6th, 2005, 07:00 PM       
So, the belief in a being greater than us with a plan is shallow, but some sort of psychological drinking binge/one night stand is deep and meaningful?

Trying for a better world with an eye on the future is shallow, but living for the next 5 minutes is deep and meaningful?


ya, that makes perfect sense.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.