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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 20th, 2005, 08:46 PM        Why are we in Uzbekistan?
I had not read about the recent crackdown on anti-Karimov demonstrators in Uzbekistan. I was aware of the fact that since the invasion of Afghanistan, we have routinely been sending prisoners of war over to Uzbekistan. This is the very same regime that our own State Department has denounced several times for their poor human rights record.

Kaplan makes the point in his article, but I'll repeat it-- it's very important that we develope some degree of consistency in this war on terror. The President certainly is bold to get so bent out of shape over the Newsweek blunder, yet see no problem in supporting/aligning with a horrible regime such as this one.

http://www.slate.com/id/2119311/


Why Are We in Uzbekistan?
It's time to end our association with Islam Karimov.

By Fred Kaplan
Posted Friday, May 20, 2005, at 9:47 AM PT


Let's just get out of Uzbekistan.

President Bill Clinton struck up a relationship with Uzbek strongman Islam Karimov to stave off the common threat from Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban. After Sept. 11, President Bush tightened the alliance. Karimov supplied the CIA and the Pentagon with an air base, which served as the staging area for the invasion of neighboring Afghanistan. During that war, he also allowed the United States to set up listening posts and to launch Predator drones from Uzbek territory.

All this was justifiable, in the interests of national security, despite Karimov's dreadful human rights record. Now the cost-benefit balance has shifted. The air base remains useful for the continuing operations in Afghanistan, but it's not essential; bases elsewhere in the region (for instance, in the slightly less deplorable Kyrgyzstan) would be suitable, if not quite as convenient. The only other element of our "strategic partnership" with Karimov is the use of his prisons as outsourced detention camps, where torture can be inflicted without direct U.S. involvement; but this is a loathsome business that should be stopped in any event. (Or, if you think it is necessary, some other friendly tyrant could take up the slack—and, who knows, might already have done so.)

Meanwhile, Karimov's crackdown last week on anti-government demonstrators—in which his police fired into crowds and killed well over 100 unarmed people, several of them women and children—is the latest sign that this is a regime unworthy of American support or friendship.

President Bush has declared repeatedly that U.S. policy toward foreign governments will be shaped, above all else, by their fealty to freedom and democracy. If he continues to treat the Uzbek government—which wantonly shoots its own people—as a special American ally when U.S. interests no longer require such favor, then his declarations will be increasingly seen as insincere, and other nasty regimes, which he may try to pressure into reform, will learn not to take his words seriously.

That is the global danger of continuing to coddle Karimov. (And it is a danger; whether Bush means what he says or not, some of the world's autocrats—most notably in Egypt and Syria—are now taking his pressure quite seriously.)

There are local and regional dangers, too. Karimov's regime may be teetering; he probably wouldn't feel the need to lash out so spasmodically if it weren't in some degree of danger. If he falls, it would be good for U.S. interests—for our image in that part of the world and for our security—if we cut our ties before the toppling.

It is worth emphasizing here that Muslims comprise 88 percent of Uzbekistan's population. Some of them are fundamentalists in league with the likes of al-Qaida. (During the time of the Taliban, they crossed the border to attend Bin Laden's training camps.) Karimov has used the threat from such groups as an excuse for his crackdowns; he has cited the crackdowns as evidence of his key role in the war on terrorism and, thus, as justification for requests of U.S. assistance. The threat is neither new nor entirely contrived. Even during Soviet days, Moscow's overarching policy toward Uzbekistan—and the other predominantly Muslim republics in central Asia—was to snuff out the slightest reawakening of Islamic consciousness. Karimov rules by the same fear, and not without reason; not long ago, he was nearly assassinated by Islamist radicals. But, as his regime has dragged on, and as its corruption and cruelty have grown, he has come to label all opponents, critics, or potential sources of independent power as terrorists—and treated them accordingly.

What does this have to do with U.S. interests? Most Uzbek Muslims are not nascent terrorists. If Karimov's regime collapses, it would be good if they had no additional cause—beyond those they already perceive—to hate Americans everywhere. One such additional cause might be the record of active U.S. support for Karimov. So, this is yet another good reason to stop supporting him now.

This suggestion in no way constitutes "appeasement." Karimov is not a good ally. Besides, even if Bush continued to support him, and if U.S. forces continued to operate the Uzbek air base, it is extremely doubtful that he (or any other American president) would come to Karimov's aid—would provide military support—in the event of a revolution or coup. So, given the lack of any other solid reason, why stay in Karimov's corner?

One more reason to shrug and go: Karimov himself has begun to turn against us. On May 5, Uzbekistan withdrew from GUUAM, a regional group of five former Soviet republics complaining that some of the group's members—namely, the new regimes in Ukraine and Georgia—were using the organization as a pro-Western, anti-Russian front. According to a dispatch on the Web site EurasiaNet.org—a superb source of seasoned analysis and on-the-ground reporting—this move "confirms a geopolitical turn … away from the United States towards Russia." The story continues: "Karimov has lost interest in Uzbekistan's alliance with the United States, apparently reaching the conclusion that Washington cannot or will not provide a solid guarantee for the preservation of his regime."

Karimov is right—and so it should be. Russian President Vladimir Putin still defends Karimov's actions (he remains a more stalwart friend than Bush or Clinton ever was). Yet Putin too has recently approached Karimov and expressed worries that the violence in Uzbekistan might destabilize the entire region.

On one level, it's tempting to leave that worry to Putin. Then again, depending on the course of this destabilization (say, if a Taliban-like group comes to power in the heart of central Asia), it might become our worry, too. This probably won't happen. Putin has a record of ruthlessness at dealing with such threats (look at Chechnya). Karimov is no pushover either. There are no organized dissident groups in Uzbekistan, no politicians offering alternatives (as Boris Yeltsin did in Russia or Viktor Yushchenko did in Ukraine), mainly because Karimov has not let them come into being. Just because demonstrators rally in a public square, as Uzbeks did in Tashkent last week, doesn't mean an Orange Revolution comes next.

Still, who knows? When such revolts spiral, they tend to do so very quickly. And it's unpredictable who might grab power.

With this in mind, there is one scenario that might—might—justify maintaining a U.S. presence in Uzbekistan. Given the growing fear of instability, some analysts wonder if Karimov's lieutenants—say, Interior Minister Zokir Almatov or secret police chief Rustam Inoyatov—might be itching to step in. One can imagine U.S. intelligence agents in Uzbekistan (and it's naive to think there aren't any) approaching such figures and offering them a deal: We will help you topple Karimov, and help you stay in power, if you promise to institute real reforms.

Such a plot—like most plots that big powers have helped foment—would be risky. Karimov pledged reforms several times and never followed through. A prospective successor could do the same; these lieutenants seem to be no less nasty than their boss, after all. In that case, we would wind up in the same boat—and be seen as responsible for the outcome. It would be better, of course, if we could somehow help the leader of an Uzbek democratic movement rise to power, but there seems to be no such entity.

This scenario is, admittedly, fanciful. Bush and his team may have no appetite or opportunity for it. In that case, they should explain their appetite for staying in Uzbekistan and associating with Karimov—or leave as soon as possible.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 21st, 2005, 01:20 PM       
"Washington cannot turn a blind eye to massacres in a country where U.S. troops are based and that receives U.S. assistance. Here as elsewhere, the principle of linkage between a regime's behavior and relations with the United States must be reestablished. And if not in Uzbekistan, where we have so much leverage, how seriously will others take our promises and our warnings?"
- Bill Kristol


Alright, this is a no-brainer now. Mr. Neo-Con himself, Bill Kristol, echoing essentially the same point as Fred Kaplan of Slate. It's time for our Congress to start holding President Bush accountable for this....
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...5/635iihrr.asp

Our Uzbek Problem

From the May 30, 2005 issue: The character of the Karimov regime can no longer be ignored in deference to the strategic usefulness of Uzbekistan.

by Stephen Schwartz and William Kristol
05/30/2005, Volume 010, Issue 35


IN THE WEEKS AFTER SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, as Washington prepared for a difficult war to remove the Taliban from Afghanistan, the neighboring former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan became a particularly useful ally. Indeed, Uzbekistan was the first country to offer military assistance to our government on the afternoon of September 11, and the Pentagon subsequently established a base there. After the main fighting in Afghanistan ended, we continued to work with the regime of Islam Karimov, even though he remained an unsubtle dictator of the neo-Soviet style. We did little to help promote political freedom there. Indeed, we seem to have "rendered" dozens of terrorists to the Karimov government for interrogation, despite (or perhaps because of) its well-deserved reputation for brutality and torture.

But the character of the Karimov regime can no longer be ignored in deference to the strategic usefulness of Uzbekistan. The Taliban has been defeated, and, with the liberation of Iraq, the nature of the global struggle to which the Bush administration is committed is no longer exclusively focused on the destruction of terrorist redoubts. We are now committed to a democratizing effort that challenges tyranny along with terror as threats to peace and freedom around the world. The Uzbek regime that was part of the solution in 2001 is now, with its bloody suppression of protests, part of the problem.

An ongoing hazard of the fight against terrorists has been that tyrants would exploit the threat of terror to win indulgence or even support from the United States. From the Saudi royals, to Vladimir Putin, to Putin's Uzbek friend Karimov, strongmen hope to gain acceptance by Washington of their violent habits of governance. Of course, it is true that the United States does (mostly) have to deal with the governments it finds in place in the world. But we don't need to wink at their bad acts. To the contrary, a more or less coherent strategy for the spread of freedom will often require pressuring and criticizing these governments. And, incidentally, it is political, civil, and economic freedom to which most Central Asian Muslims aspire. Just like Ukrainians, Georgians, and Iraqis.

So, toleration of Karimov's brutality threatens to undercut this administration's impressive and successful foreign policy. Previous administrations have unfortunately allowed dictators to learn the lesson that repression works. Has Burma's high command paid much of a price for their brutality in Rangoon in 1988, or Beijing for its massacre in 1989? Karimov wants to follow their path, rather than go the route of the ex-rulers of Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan. But it is hardly in our interest to let brutality become a winning strategy, or to let massacres pass without consequences for a regime's relations with the United States. As the Financial Times warned in a fine editorial last Friday, "If Mr. Karimov survives the crisis with his authoritarian regime intact, undemocratic leaders everywhere will see that brutality pays."

Less than two weeks ago, Karimov ordered his troops to the eastern Uzbek city of Andijon, where economic discontent had stirred the local populace to protest. They opened fire in a spasm of official bloodshed reminiscent of Tiananmen Square. The death toll remains unconfirmed, perhaps unconfirmable, but apparently exceeds 500 and includes women and children. Karimov and his servants have sought to explain away this atrocity with charges that the Andijon demonstrators were, or were inspired by, Islamist radicals. But such claims seem to be mendacious propaganda, which, left unchallenged, could undermine the real and indispensable effort against radical Islam.

The Bush administration's response to the bloodshed has been tepid, featuring calls for restraint by both sides. The president's failure even to mention Uzbekistan in a major foreign policy speech to the International Republican Institute last week is not good news. Neither is the absence of talk about using U.S. aid as leverage on Karimov.

Uzbekistan has a distinguished cultural and theological Islamic heritage. If it had a regime accountable to the people, allowing entrepreneurship and pluralism, it could become a force for progress in other Muslim lands. As an exemplar of successful reform, Uzbekistan would be a far more valuable ally than it is now as Karimov's fiefdom.

President Bush should lead the international pressure on Karimov to allow journalists, legitimate relief workers, and trustworthy investigators to travel to Andijon and render a verdict on the events there. That verdict will likely be harsh for Karimov, and it should have consequences for U.S. aid to and support for the regime. Washington cannot turn a blind eye to massacres in a country where U.S. troops are based and that receives U.S. assistance. Here as elsewhere, the principle of linkage between a regime's behavior and relations with the United States must be reestablished. And if not in Uzbekistan, where we have so much leverage, how seriously will others take our promises and our warnings?

--Stephen Schwartz and William Kristol

© Copyright 2005, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights Reserved.
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Old May 27th, 2005, 08:55 PM       
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/26/news/uzbek.php

China 'honors' Uzbekistan crackdown

By Chris Buckley International Herald Tribune

FRIDAY, MAY 27, 2005

BEIJING China acclaimed a new treaty with Uzbekistan on Thursday as a milestone promising closer cooperation between the two countries, even as the Uzbek government remained under a shadow of international censure because of army shootings of civilians on May 13.

Uzbekistan's president, Islam Karimov, and China's president, Hu Jintao, signed the "China-Uzbek Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation" on Wednesday, the first day of Karimov's three-day state visit, which started with a 21-gun salute on Tiananmen Square in central Beijing. Karimov's visit has drawn attention to China's courting of Uzbekistan less than two weeks after he oversaw a bloody crackdown against protesters in Andijon in northeastern Uzbekistan.

Karimov's government has said 169 people died in the violence, including 32 government troops. He described the rest of the victims as armed Islamic extremists, but critics of his government and international human rights groups say several hundred more were killed, many of them unarmed political protesters or bystanders.

China has endorsed the crackdown and has used Karimov's visit to draw closer to Uzbekistan, which in the past has been wary of China's intentions in Central Asia.

"Especially under current circumstances, when the Central Asian region faces the threats of separatism and extremism, China and Uzbekistan have many commonalties and shared interests," a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, Kong Quan, said in Beijing on Thursday.

He said their new treaty "will be the political and legal foundation for further strengthening Chinese-Uzbek relations," but declined to discuss its contents.

The United States and its Western allies, who have generally treated Karimov as an ally in their fight against Central Asian terrorism, have criticized the shootings and demanded an independent investigation into the violence; but Hu made it clear that China stands fully behind Karimov. China "honors" Uzbekistan's "efforts to protect its national independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity," Hu told Karimov, according to China's official Xinhua News Agency.

"China and the countries of Central Asia have common interests in protecting regional peace, stability and security," Hu said, adding that China was willing to cooperate with Uzbekistan and its neighbors in fighting what China calls the "Three Forces" - ethnic separatism, religious extremism and terrorism.

Hu also stressed China's hopes of strengthening the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the group it helped found in 1996 to fight terrorism and Islam and to promote development in Central Asia.

As well as China and Uzbekistan, the other members of the organization are Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan.

China's Xinjiang Province is neighbor to the Central Asian countries. In Xinjiang, the Uighur population - a Turkic group with a language and Islamic faith similar to those of many Central Asian peoples - has long bridled under Beijing's strict controls over their religion and culture, occasionally resorting to violence. Uzbekistan joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in 2001, when it acquired its present name, but it has been reluctant to see the organization expand its influence and potentially overshadow its role as the dominant Central Asian state.

In Beijing, however Karimov praised his country's deepening ties with China and said their treaty "lays down a solid foundation for the two countries to develop a new strategic partnership," Xinhua reported. Kong, the spokesman, said future China-Uzbek cooperation may include joint military exercises to fight terrorism alongside other Shanghai Organization member states. "We hope the countries of the region can strengthen cooperation and attack terrorist activity together," he said.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization will next meet in Vladisvostok on June 4, with a preceding meeting between Russian, Chinese and Indian officials, he said.
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Old May 27th, 2005, 11:25 PM       
So doesn't China's new found friendship remove the leverage we had with Uzberk?
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Old May 28th, 2005, 12:16 AM       
you thought I was being crazy, kev, but we always come back to China ;o
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Old Jun 1st, 2005, 08:30 PM       
I'm surprised that this little love fest didn't get more attention.
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Old Jun 1st, 2005, 09:55 PM       
You are?
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Old Jun 2nd, 2005, 05:15 PM       
Kevin you think their alliance with China will prompt us to cut ties with them faster than their dictator's human rights abuses?


Oh and where the fuck is this country in reference to other countries in the area?
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2005, 07:35 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant10708
Kevin you think their alliance with China will prompt us to cut ties with them faster than their dictator's human rights abuses?
Eye Tie might be better able to answer that, but I think it's unlikely. I think that the State Department at least used to acknowledge what a rotten regime this was, but quickly developed a case of amnesia during the war with the Taliban.

I also don't think we should be waiting on this administration to do anything, because you might end up waiting a long time.

Quote:
Oh and where the fuck is this country in reference to other countries in the area?
Former Soviet bloc, near Afghanistan.
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