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  #201  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:20 PM       
Dear God in heaven help us. :Pray

EDIT - do you really feel that the endless blog quotes and youtube videos are proving your point?

Because they're not.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:25 PM       


It's on YouTube, so it must be true. BELIEVE ME ALL YOU SHEEP!

EDIT: They were eating HFCS. IT'S TRUE, DAMMIT!
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  #203  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 10:52 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool and the gang
See, it's either synthetic or its organic. You can't have both. The junk they use in our food that has been studied in laboratories to make rats obese and double their appetites are synthetic. It's added to most food and its under numerous names.
Most of this thread is well over my head, but I did pick up on this. I don't think Chojin meant that MSG is synthetic and organic at the same time, he's saying that MSG is organic and there are synthetic versions of it too. Or... the other way around. I suffer from one of those neurological conditions that you mentioned, so I watch out for MSG and it's counterparts in food, this includes it occurring naturally in tomatoes, mushrooms and crap, and also synthetically in a lot of other foods; mainly listed here as flavour preservative/enhancer 620 or 621.


Strangely enough, the levels of MSG found in some vegetables are not harmful to me in small doses.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 11:12 PM       
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Old May 7th, 2010, 04:35 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I assumed we are talking about obesity. Fat = Obesity.
Human body requires fat to function normally. Having fat in your system doesn't make you obese

Quote:
Obesity and the causes, which are proven to be HFCS, food additives, and GMO's.
Obesity has existed before any of these even became abundant in diets.

Quote:
I posted an article that linked high levels of fructose to obesity and diabetes.
Duh? ANYTHING that causes obesity can be linked with diabetes

Quote:
There is no one in your GI tract that is saying picking out which material is good or not. Most of what you eat gets into your body and if your body doesn't recognize it or doesn't use it, it goes into fat deposits and festers.
Really? And here I thought that they were secreted into feces and urine.

And since it seems that you only care about videos/articles etc., I'll be quoting the obvious from few articles:

Quote:
Like sugar, honey and some fruit juices, high fructose corn syrup contains almost equal portions of fructose and glucose. Glucose has been shown to have a tempering effect on specific metabolic effects of fructose," Erickson says in a statement.

"New research continues to confirm that high fructose corn syrup is no different from other sweeteners. It has the same number of calories as sugar and is handled similarly by the body."

But Sandon says there is some evidence that high fructose corn syrup breaks down differently in the body than other sugars.
Quote:
Madelyn Fernstrom, PhD, CNS, agrees that demonizing one type of sugar misses the point. "Everything in moderation," she says. "We are blaming individual sugars or individual fats when we should be focusing on calories. If someone drinks a 64-ounce soda, who cares if it is high-fructose corn syrup or cane sugar? It's still about 800 calories."
Quote:
“There are lots of people out there who want to demonize fructose as the cause of the obesity epidemic,” she said. “I think it may be a contributor, but it’s not the only problem. Americans are eating too many calories for their activity level. We’re overeating fat, we’re overeating protein; and we’re overeating all sugars.”
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Old May 7th, 2010, 04:50 AM       
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:31 AM       
I told him the same exact crap without citing anything, because it's pretty much nutrition 101. But since it would seem he only listens to things in quote boxes, maybe that will help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankeri
We’re overeating fat, we’re overeating protein; and we’re overeating all sugars.”
Disagree with this part. It's pretty much impossible for a normal person to 'overeat' protein. About 1g x pounds of lean body mass is a theoretical limit for people who don't exercise. Most people in America have about 20-25% bodyfat and weigh about 200 lbs, so 150-160g protein is their limit. A large (8 oz) sirloin steak has about 70g of protein, so you could easily eat two of those a day even when you aren't working out and be fine (if you ARE working out, protein requirements can double).

Also, protein is vastly preferred over fat and carbs when it comes to calories. For one thing, it has fewer calories per gram than fat. For another, eating protein increases satiety (makes you feel full) much better than other nutrients. Finally, eating protein spares your body's stored protein, which means that your muscles won't cannibalize themselves in your sleep (this is mostly only a problem for people who diet with low amounts of fat).

An interesting side point here is that Americans still eat way more protein than people in other nations. Most countries have a stigma about consuming a lot of meat, but there's no nutritional basis for it. Strangely, we're one of the more healthy nations in that regard.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:49 AM       
I found the statement a bit odd too, but decided to quote the sentence as it was instead of editing it. She probably said it accidentally, or perhaps she meant high protein diets in general?

Nevertheless, the message should be clear
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:59 AM       
I forgot to explain why it's "pretty much impossible for a normal person to overeat protein". It's because (as mentioned, but not correlated) you stop being hungry long before you could overeat protein. As a DIY exercise, try to cook up 100g of lean chicken breast (13oz of chicken, about 3oz shy of a pound) and eat it all in one sitting. You fucking can't, you would throw up if you tried. MAYBE unless you exercise like a motherfucker and increase your appetite that way.

However as coolie has so awkwardly posited, MSG and HFCS increase appetite. Perhaps we can slather corn syrup and MSG onto a big bucket of grilled chicken and power through the entire thing. NEW SUPPLEMENTS?!?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:09 AM       
A urologist recommended that I cut my protein intake a bit. DEATH PANEL.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:09 AM       
overeating is just one part of why people are obese. We also have to look at the ingredients inside the food and what they are doing to peoples organ systems.

Quote:
Study: GM Soy Dangerous for Newborns?

Dr. Irina Ermakova of the Russian Academy of Sciences recently released a study reporting higher mortality rates and lower body weight among young rats whose mothers were fed a diet of herbicide resistant, genetically modified soybeans. According to experts at the British Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes, a serious review of the study is not possible until more experimental data is made available. In addition, the study’s findings go against reviewed scientific studies that have refuted negative health effects.

The team led by Dr. Irina Ermakova at the Institute of Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology of the Russian Academy of Sciences found that the mortality rate of the offspring of rats fed genetically modified soy flour was six times higher than that of rats raised with feed from conventional soy. In addition, the surviving offspring of rats fed GM soy had significantly lower bodyweight compared to control groups. Dr. Ermakova claims her findings raise serious concerns regarding possible health risks to humans.

http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/news/..._newborns.html
Lower body weight in newborns is a bad thing.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:10 AM       
lol wtf

Your article is about infant mortality and says right in the abstract that a serious review isn't possible.

Also you're just completely wrong here, since dying is an excellent way to lose weight.

Quote:
Lower body weight in newborns is a bad thing.
what the shit does this have to do with obesity? make a new thread if you want to talk about dead babies. i'll even do you the favor of not posting in it; since, unlike you, i don't argue about shit i don't understand.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:23 AM       
Regarding the ingredients in food. GMO Soy being an ingredient. Certain ingredients can affect the body in negative ways. Like HFCS, MSG, and others. It's not just eating a lot that can make you fat or ill.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:28 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
It's not just eating a lot that can make you fat or ill.
How do you get fat without eating? If I take one tablespoon of HFCS and nothing else, will I wake up with extra 50 kg next morning?

Oh wait, is the evil government injecting us all intravenously while we sleep?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:30 AM       
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Originally Posted by RaNkeri View Post
How do you get fat without eating? If I take one tablespoon of HFCS and nothing else, will I wake up with extra 50 kg next morning?

Oh wait, is the evil government injecting us all intravenously while we sleep?

If I were you I would re-read the thread. We went through this already.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:37 AM       
If I were you, I'd buy a biochemistry book and get my facts right instead of listening some bullshit "scientists"
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:41 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
Regarding the ingredients in food. GMO Soy being an ingredient. Certain ingredients can affect the body in negative ways. Like HFCS, MSG, and others. It's not just eating a lot that can make you fat or ill.
This thread is about obesity. Your latest article claims that a certain chemical we weren't even discussing causes children to LOSE weight. The topic of discussion is not whether or not poison is bad for you.

And no, chemicals do not make you fat. They may cause neurological changes that predispose someone to eat more often, but you haven't really proven that, either.

The cause of obesity is still 100% eating. Sorry.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:48 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
This thread is about obesity. Your latest article claims that a certain chemical we weren't even discussing causes children to LOSE weight. The topic of discussion is not whether or not poison is bad for you.

And no, chemicals do not make you fat. They may cause neurological changes that predispose someone to eat more often, but you haven't really proven that, either.

The cause of obesity is still 100% eating. Sorry.
So the ingredients in food have nothing to do with what happens in the body? Because I remember you saying something to the affect that "anything with HFCS in it is clown food" meaning its junk. Now this junk food is "junk" because of the harmful ingredients or does it just have a label put on it?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:50 AM       
The food is junk because it has a high-calorie content, not because of HFCS. All food with HFCS is junk because junk is the only type of food that needs a low-cost sugar to be added to it--again, this is not an inherent evil of HFCS and sugar would be just as bad in that scenario. And again, refer to my example of Mountain Dew with and without HFCS. Both are high in calories and sugars.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:51 AM       
So are we now supposed to explain you the term Junk food?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:58 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
The food is junk because it has a high-calorie content, not because of HFCS. All food with HFCS is junk because junk is the only type of food that needs a low-cost sugar to be added to it--again, this is not an inherent evil of HFCS and sugar would be just as bad in that scenario. And again, refer to my example of Mountain Dew with and without HFCS. Both are high in calories and sugars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNkeri View Post
So are we now supposed to explain you the term Junk food?
The ingredients in our food products play a large role in whether or not we gain weight or not. It's not just eating food, its whats in the food we eat. The body has issues processing unknown chemicals and sometimes it can disrupt the metabolism and other important factors in digestion.


Quote:
Synthetic Chemicals Can Cause Obesity

A study published in early 2007 by researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia has linked chemicals found in many prepared foods and beauty care products to obesity.According to scientist Frederick vom Saal, the author of the paper, endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in plastics and pesticides can change the functioning of a fetus's genes, altering the metabolic system and predisposing him or her to weight gain later in life. Of the roughly 55,000 man-made chemicals in the world, about 1,000 may cause this type of endocrine disruption, he says.Obesity is on the rise worldwide. In the United States, more than two thirds of the population is overweight and one third is obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control.

Living a more natural lifestyle that incorporates organic products, he says, can minimize exposure to these chemicals and thereby reduce the risk of obesity.Organic products contain ingredients that have been produced without the aid of synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or plant growth regulators.

Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/cosmetic...#ixzz0nG22Ieco
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution



http://www.articlesbase.com/cosmetic...ty-202630.html
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  #222  
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Old May 7th, 2010, 11:00 AM       
The point of a source is to reaffirm the things you say, not to present new information that makes your argument for you.

Quote:
The body has issues processing unknown chemicals and sometimes it can disrupt the metabolism and other important factors in digestion.
How often does it disrupt the metabolism? How much is the metabolism affected? How does digestion affect obesity?

Are you aware that the difference in metabolism is affected to a far greater degree by exercise? And that the metabolic difference between someone who exercises 5 hours a week and 0 hours a week is about 50 calories a day? Therefore, are you trying to say that an even more minor metabolic imbalance is making people fat? Further, are you trying to say that it's something we could be concerned about in lieu of not eating plates and plates of organic doughnuts?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 11:05 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
The point of a source is to reaffirm the things you say, not to present new information that makes your argument for you.
Chojin, I'll just stop. Even if I post a million scientific studies with a million more Medical Doctors parroting the same exact thing we will never see eye to eye.

The thread is yours. Peace.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 11:05 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
The ingredients in our food products play a large role in whether or not we gain weight or not.
duh?

Quote:
A study published in early 2007 by researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia has linked chemicals found in many prepared foods and beauty care products to obesity
So you're saying that if a person is given a pill of synthetic chemical, s/he will miraculously gain weight without eating anything else.

Wow, just wow
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Old May 7th, 2010, 11:09 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
Chojin, I'll just stop. Even if I post a million scientific studies with a million more Medical Doctors parroting the same exact thing we will never see eye to eye.

The thread is yours. Peace.
You should leave the thread because you're clueless, not because you're afraid I'll ban you.

It is fine to disagree with me, but it is not ok to say CHEMICALS R BAD (LINK). Fuck that. I am not reading your source. Pretend this were a real-life debate--how the shit would you formulate a point when you couldn't link to anything?
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