Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
Nexus 7 Prototype
VaporTrailx1's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beyond Hammerspace
VaporTrailx1 is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 06:06 PM       
Here are the only two arguments needed to continue stem cell research:

1. Abortion is still legal and taking place either way. I view it as fucked up, but you wanna know what, why throw those useful stem cells in the incinerator?

2. Sanctity of human life? The guys who outlawed stem cell research had no problem dropping bombs on people.


We can grow ears on the backs of mice. think of the possibilities here.
__________________
............................
There remains time to create.
Create and escape.
Escape will make me god.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 06:20 PM       
You need to specify which stem cell research. Embryonic or adult? Then again I don't think you know anything about it.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 06:39 PM       
I can't even play if you're gonna use talking points. You are saying that is the end all on an argument for research? I guess it was funny. :/
Reply With Quote
  #29  
ZeldaQueen ZeldaQueen is offline
Insane Writer
ZeldaQueen's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the border of my Outer Circle of Thought
ZeldaQueen is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 06:54 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by pac-man View Post
You gotta admit ZQ, you make some weird analogies/references.
Sorry, my mind does make leaps. Then it forgets that no one else can see where it's going.

And howzabout this argument? Something isn't considered alive unless it's heart is pumping blood and it's breathing. Embryos, until the sixth week, have no heartbeat. (I'm not really sure how young embryos are when used in stem cell research )
__________________
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "The Babel fish proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
Nexus 7 Prototype
VaporTrailx1's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beyond Hammerspace
VaporTrailx1 is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 06:56 PM       
The point is with embryonic stem cells, Why is throwing away something more morally justifiable than using it since it's there?

ok. The fetus has already met the business end of the vacuum cleaner. Why throw all those useful cells away? It's like a pizza guy getting an order canceled. Should he throw the pizza in the garbage or eat it?
__________________
............................
There remains time to create.
Create and escape.
Escape will make me god.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 07:17 PM       
ZQ, I don't think I will ever be able to claim when something is alive or not.

VT, I think the reason why people have a problem with it is because, (and I'm not clear on this), I believe they fertilize the eggs and start life and then take the stem cells from that life which in turns kills any hope for that life. I don't believe they take the cells from abortions.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
Nexus 7 Prototype
VaporTrailx1's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beyond Hammerspace
VaporTrailx1 is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 07:27 PM       
ahhh. that makes sense. All I knew about it was from the episode of south park where Cartman tried to sell a few hundred aborted fetuses to stem cell research.
__________________
............................
There remains time to create.
Create and escape.
Escape will make me god.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 07:28 PM       
I love that episode.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
ZeldaQueen ZeldaQueen is offline
Insane Writer
ZeldaQueen's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the border of my Outer Circle of Thought
ZeldaQueen is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 08:52 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
ZQ, I don't think I will ever be able to claim when something is alive or not.

VT, I think the reason why people have a problem with it is because, (and I'm not clear on this), I believe they fertilize the eggs and start life and then take the stem cells from that life which in turns kills any hope for that life. I don't believe they take the cells from abortions.
Oh, I get it.

And as for my theory, just think of it. A person is considered dead if they don't have a pulse and aren't breathing. I'm just saying that that's my thoughts on the matter.
__________________
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "The Babel fish proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
after enough bourbon ...
Colonel Flagg's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Colonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's army
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 09:02 PM       
Adult stem cells are what they came from. Stem cells from hair follicles can be teased to grow more hair follicles, thus curing male-pattern baldness. (I kid, of course.) Embryonic stem cells are differentiable. Under different conditions, they can be made to grow into lung tissue, or liver tissue, or nerve tissue, or brain tissue, or .... This is why they are so valuable and desirable for research. The "existing stem cell lines" were either not of sufficient differentiable quality to generate this level of diversity, or they were contaminated.

Again, what is missing is the starting material to make the leap forward. Looking at historical advances in medical science, it is conceivable that we will develop the ability to generate fully differentiable stem cells without resorting to the harvesting of human embryos (that admittedly would be discarded by fertility clinics, as they are today). It will just take 8 years longer than it could have.
__________________
The future is fun,
The future is fair.
You may already have won!
You may already be there.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 09:15 PM       
I hear you ZQ, it's just that I eat plants, kill bacteria and squish spiders. All of these are alive but what do I consider alive? Only the spider?

Flagg, that's kinda what I was thinking, I'm just not sure of at what point they harvest the embryonic stem cells? No one comes right out and says. When they say that they are disgarding the embyos, they are talking about fertalized eggs that are just beggining the very first stages of life right? I my self have been part of a few too many abortions. I'm not getting all embryo rights here. It just seems that there are way too many uncomfortable taboo things involved and therefore we aren't bieng told the naked science of what is involved.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
pac-man pac-man is offline
Oozes machismo
pac-man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The High Ground
pac-man is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 10:18 PM       
__________________
...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
after enough bourbon ...
Colonel Flagg's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Colonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's army
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 11:11 PM       
T - I'm not a good-enough debater to be able to convince anyone toward one side or another of this issue. What I can say (not being a molecular biologist or a biochemist) is that the general tenor of the past 8 years has cast a long shadow on science in general. Humanity has a natural distrust of what it does not fully understand, and this is a prime example.

Where the cells come from is not an ethical dilemma - the embryos would be discarded or destroyed anyway. Ethics rears its head when the word "research" is used. Now scientists are performing "research" on human embryos. They want to begin cloning humans. Next they will be experimenting on fetuses. They are playing God. They are making the ultimate "DBGB" which will ultimately take over the world (thanks, Pac). They are evil, evil people and they should be destroyed.

It's absurd. We demonize those men and women whose life's work is to find a cure for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, Spinal cord injuries, and other terminal cases. Why? Because they dare to use something we would otherwise have thrown away.
__________________
The future is fun,
The future is fair.
You may already have won!
You may already be there.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
pac-man pac-man is offline
Oozes machismo
pac-man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The High Ground
pac-man is probably a spambot
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 11:16 PM       
If the other shoe does drop, I think it will come in the form of a statement like, "Uh, we can't do shit with stem cells in humans; thanks for the grant, though." from researchers.
__________________
...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
after enough bourbon ...
Colonel Flagg's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Colonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's army
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 11:42 PM       
At least the opportunity to try has been given, regardless the eventual outcome.
__________________
The future is fun,
The future is fair.
You may already have won!
You may already be there.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 10th, 2009, 11:53 PM       
Don't get wrong, I'm all for it. Even if it was for a Dead Baby Gun.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
BurntToShreds BurntToShreds is offline
Freelance Product Tester
BurntToShreds's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
BurntToShreds is probably a spambot
Old Mar 11th, 2009, 08:51 PM       
So if Obama says that science, and not ideology, will determine his administration's decisions, then why not use pluripotent stem cells? They can be made from skin cells, and the process to create them was discovered back in 2007. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
__________________
¯\(°_o)/¯
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Dr. Boogie Dr. Boogie is offline
Funky Dynamite
Dr. Boogie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Help, I'm lost!
Dr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty ok
Old Mar 11th, 2009, 09:05 PM       
From what I've read, reasearchers are having some difficulty getting those cells to adapt, such as the cells becoming cancerous.
__________________
Dr. Boogie: Everything is so simple when you have a rocket launcher for an arm!


Reply With Quote
  #44  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NO
kahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contestkahljorn won the popularity contest
Old Mar 11th, 2009, 09:34 PM       
Quote:
So you're saying that Bush's beliefs and those of his most ardent and vocal supporters didn't affect his policy? Oookay...
thats exactly what i was saying in the thread why is christianity the target ;o
__________________
NEVER
Reply With Quote
  #45  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
Nexus 7 Prototype
VaporTrailx1's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beyond Hammerspace
VaporTrailx1 is probably a spambot
Old Mar 11th, 2009, 09:36 PM       
What would be the problem with creating Wrath of Kahnesque superhumans? Sure it seems wrong at first. But when you realize that AI computer systems will be able to outsmart us within 50 years it's a whole new ballgame. Normal humans will not be able to compete against the Robotic onslaught. If we're really worried about them replacing us normal humans, we could give them short lifespans like Blade Runner Replicants.

The choice is Kahn or SkyNET?
__________________
............................
There remains time to create.
Create and escape.
Escape will make me god.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
pac-man pac-man is offline
Oozes machismo
pac-man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The High Ground
pac-man is probably a spambot
Old Mar 11th, 2009, 10:55 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
thats exactly what i was saying in the thread why is christianity the target ;o
Well, you're wrong. I know you don't like to hear that and I'm not going to argue with you.
__________________
...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Tadao Tadao is offline
☆☆☆☆☆
Tadao's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Tadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contestTadao won the popularity contest
Old Mar 12th, 2009, 03:01 AM       
I looked at this link http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...tem_Cells.html

I gotta say. I don't understand it yet.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
pac-man pac-man is offline
Oozes machismo
pac-man's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The High Ground
pac-man is probably a spambot
Old Mar 12th, 2009, 03:08 AM       
I'm going to need sobriety and and a dictionary for that one. Like you said before, there needs to be a real comprehensive Discovery Channel special about this that covers pros and cons and uses some laymen's terms.
__________________
...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
after enough bourbon ...
Colonel Flagg's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Colonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's armyColonel Flagg has joined BAPE's army
Old Mar 12th, 2009, 05:42 AM       
Nice find T. A fine summary of the state of the art - maybe not true cutting edge, but current as of the past year, surely.

What strikes me is the tone of the article. There's no "right" or "wrong" - there's only fact and falsehood. Very little in the way of emotion to cloud the issue at hand, allowing the reader to make his or her own decision as to ethics or morality of the research.
__________________
The future is fun,
The future is fair.
You may already have won!
You may already be there.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Arob Arob is offline
Son of a Beekeeper
Arob's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Arob is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2009, 03:30 PM       
Quote:
Adult stem cells are what they came from. Stem cells from hair follicles can be teased to grow more hair follicles, thus curing male-pattern baldness. (I kid, of course.) Embryonic stem cells are differentiable. Under different conditions, they can be made to grow into lung tissue, or liver tissue, or nerve tissue, or brain tissue, or .... This is why they are so valuable and desirable for research. The "existing stem cell lines" were either not of sufficient differentiable quality to generate this level of diversity, or they were contaminated.

Again, what is missing is the starting material to make the leap forward. Looking at historical advances in medical science, it is conceivable that we will develop the ability to generate fully differentiable stem cells without resorting to the harvesting of human embryos (that admittedly would be discarded by fertility clinics, as they are today). It will just take 8 years longer than it could have.
Quoting Colonel Flagg,

What about the stem cells taken from a baby's umbilical cord blood? Can these adult stem cells turn into babies?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.