"It's total devestation, with nowhere to jog, or even b

[mburbank]

On his flight from Texas, Air Force One flew over New Orleans at about 2,500, and it descended even further, to about 1,700 feet, over Mississippi. The plane flew over New Orleans and saw the Superdome, downtown areas and outlying neighborhoods, then traveled along the coast to Mobile before turning north toward Washington.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

The presidents compassion is overwhelming.....no, really.

[kellychaos]

I have never really trusted weather forecasting beyond two days or so. Am I remiss in this?

[ItalianStereotype]

okay...so Air Force One flew over the disaster site. what did you want the President to do? throw MREs and water bottles out of the plane? fly a big "that sure do suck thar, fellas" sign like some tacky skywriter? you might as well blame him for the hurricane, too.

[Immortal Goat]

Unfortunatly, I have to side with Bush on this one. There really isn't much he could have done. It would be risky for him to actually go down to the site himself, and though I wouldn't mind if something happened to him, I can understand his desire to not risk his life. And if he were to do anything like throw MREs, he would still be called on not doing enough. Better to do nothing and have the same effects.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

you might as well blame him for the hurricane, too.

WELL NOW THAT YOU MENTIONED IT.......!!!

[mburbank]

I don't blame him for the hurricane. Here's what I'm blaming him for.

Ignoring the Global warming that models suggest invite humongous storms like this one.

Presiding over the administration that drastically reduced the budget of the army corps of engineers for the region, despite detailed reports that they were not prepared for a level fiive hurricane.

Sending huge portions of the national guard (which we use for things like this) into a war of agression.

Having done nothing at all during the entirety of his presidency to reduce dependence on oil making this disruption in the market as damaging as it could possibly be.

Not going to New Orleans. Flying over it was strictly for the news. The airport is open to emergency flights and would have landed air force one. And don't tell me "What could he have done" because he's going there later this week.

I blame him for making the country and the world in which the hurricane took place weaker.

He has a major, national crisis on his hands now. He's our leader. Let's see how he leads.



And believe me, if I thought there was a legitimate way to blame him for the hrricane itself, I'd do it. In case you've missed it, I think he is a very, very, very, bad man. My consolation is, if the serious right wing Christians he pals around with are even a little bit right about the nature of gawd, he's going to hell. Me, I don't believe in hell.

[mburbank]

From salon.com


In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.



A New Orleans resident waded through floodwaters coated with a fine layer of oil in the flooded downtown area on Tuesday, August 30, 2005.

...
A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

[GAsux]

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a bit here, who says the funding was cut specifically in favor of funding the war? Just curious. It's stated in the story, but is that fact or assumption? Its not out of the question that the Administration simply felt the project wasn't necessary.

From a macro standpoint, virtually every single city in America could claim that it needs this or that retro-fit or upgrade to protect itself from this or that disaster.

If you believed the war in Iraq was actually justified would the "diversion" of funds then be acceptable?

I personally blame Jesus for the hurricane. I am no cheerleader for the administration but I believe they screw up enough on their own. Blaming the aftermath of the hurrican on Bush as well for my own opinion is a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure funding the Corps of Engineers request would have saved that many people regardless.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

okay...so Air Force One flew over the disaster site. what did you want the President to do? throw MREs and water bottles out of the plane? fly a big "that sure do suck thar, fellas" sign like some tacky skywriter? you might as well blame him for the hurricane, too.

I want him to go to New Orleans and survey the damage....say something profoundly stupid, and go back to his war.

[mburbank]

"From a macro standpoint, virtually every single city in America could claim that it needs this or that retro-fit or upgrade to protect itself from this or that disaster. "

Sure, but not every city in America could say that FEMA had pegged them as one of the top three potential disasters we as a country faced.

Oh, and I have no idea how you'd prove that the funds were diverted for war. If they were not and the administrtion just thought it sounded like a good thing to cut... I would say that was worse.

[GAsux]

I understand the FEMA issue. Im saying that when the bean counters sit down and review budget proposals, Im certain there are hundereds of thousands of requests from all over the country that require immediate attention and tons of funding. They certainly can't fund them all. In this case it certainly bit them in the ass but I dont see how its realistic to expect every "critical" issue to get fully funded. War or no war there just isn't the money to support them all.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

okay...so Air Force One flew over the disaster site. what did you want the President to do?

Sometimes just the appearance of compassion can help regardless of whether you actually DO anything at all.

[mburbank]

From the Philly Enquirer


"At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars. "

I'm pretty sure these articles will be seeing a lot of revisiting in the next few days. I haven't looked for 'em yet.

[El Blanco]

So, what was the reason they give for his predecessors? Cuz they got a lot of reports that sounded the same and did little about it.

And what did FEMA suggest be done to prevent the damge, other than building a new city over the old? Because, at 10 feat below sea level looking at 28 foot waves (for a difference of 38), it really doesn't mater how new your pumps are or how fresh the cement on your levies is.

And the construction of the new city would have taken close to a decade (if they were lucky), so Katrina would have still fucked them up.

And did you know there were hurricanes prior to GWB's administration? Some were even more powerful than this one. Other natural disasters too.

[Skulhedface]

It was SO nice for Bush to survey the damage to our state!

It was even nicer that he ended his vacation two days early to take a tour of what used to be New Orleans!

Is his compassion unending? Talk about a tireless effort by our great leader!

Yessir, he'll lick these problems!

[CaptainBubba]

Originally Posted by mburbank

Ignoring the Global warming that models suggest invite humongous storms like this one.

:/ I expect better from people here, really, honestly. When will you guys stop perpetuating that bullshit? It can't benifit you personally to keep the lie alive and I know since there is no credible evidence to pretty much any enviromentalist claims about the dangers we supposedly cause that you couldn't have been swayed by some highly convincing argument. So why? Is it just because republicans don't favor enviormentalism and its an easy platform booster? 40 years ago it was global cooling. 20 years ago people said the FUCKING SUN WAS GOING TO RUN OUT BY 2010. I'm ready for "Global Warming" to die.

[mburbank]

Okay, that was sarcasm, right? There are pretty much no reputable scientist left that disagree about Global warming, and that it's attributable to man made greenhouse gasses. Every major scientiffic body on earth has weighed in on this at this point.

Now I'm not saying that this means they couldn't be wrong. I am saying that if you choose not to believe in Global warning, that puts you in the camp the administration is in, which basically says that Science is no more useful than opinion. And that would be sad.

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by mburbank

Okay, that was sarcasm, right? There are pretty much no reputable scientist left that disagree about Global warming, and that it's attributable to man made greenhouse gasses. Every major scientiffic body on earth has weighed in on this at this point.

Now I'm not saying that this means they couldn't be wrong. I am saying that if you choose not to believe in Global warning, that puts you in the camp the administration is in, which basically says that Science is no more useful than opinion. And that would be sad.

Uhh.. Max? There are a lot of people who disagree that man causes global warming. A lot of these people happen to be scientist. Why do you say shit you know good and fucking well is a bold-faced lie? The sun causes tempatures to rise and fall on the fucking planet. It also affects the weather as well. The only reason this hurricane did as much damage as it did to NO was because the fucking city and state goverments spent the tax money they get elsewhere. Did you know the levees were created only to withstand a CAT 3 hurricane? Is that Bush's fault? Did travel back in time to affect how people were going to build their fucking levees? Did he control the state and city goverments for 30+ years and tell them not to invest money in the only thing that was keeping their city from becoming a big bowl of city soup? I swear, you can be such a fucking myrmidon sometimes.

I know your response is going to be posting the non-existant info from my old web site or some condescending, didactic post to tell everyone how dumb I iz or maybe you will start with that "Vinth" shit you are so happy about. Your proclivity for unoriginality astounds.

But, Max, you have to face facts. Bush did all he could short of sending troops down there Saturday night to force people to leave. The state and local goverments fucked up. NO has been a Democratic stronghold for years, ripe with corruption and ineptitude. It ain't Bush's fault. It ain't "global warming's" fault. It's the fault of people who were too stupid to plan for distaster when their city basically had a "A CAT 4-5 storm will make you KYAGB" sign over it.

Now, Biloxi and Gulfport is a totally different story. That situation makes me sick to my fucking stomach.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yeah Max, your proclivity fucking bites.

It isn't Bush's fault. It's clearly the fault of the DEMOCRATS in New Orleans!!!

Glad to see both sides can still turn a tragedy into an episode of Hannity & Colmes.

EDIT: btw, just for the sake of clarity, your statement on blame isn't entirely the case:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01279059.htm

The former head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the agency that handles the infrastructure of the nation's waterways, said the damage in New Orleans probably would have been much less extensive had flood-control efforts been fully funded over the years.

"Levees would have been higher, levees would have been bigger, there would have been other pumps put in," said Mike Parker, a former Mississippi congressman who headed the engineering agency from 2001 to 2002.

"I'm not saying it would have been totally alleviated but it would have been less than the damage that we have got now."

Eighty percent of New Orleans was under water after Katrina blew through with much of the flooding coming after two levees broke.

A May 2005 Corps memo said that funding levels for fiscal years 2005 and 2006 would not be enough to pay for new construction on the levees.

Agency officials said on Thursday in a conference call that delayed work was not related to the breakdown in the levee system and Parker told Reuters the funding problems could not be blamed on the Bush administration alone.

[/quote]

[Abcdxxxx]

There wasa natural disaster...and now there is also a MAN MADE disaster adding to it. People are responsible for this mess.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I agree, but I think it's fair to say that the blame is bi-partisan. Yelling at Bush and Louisiana Dems, or whoever, doesn't make sense, IMO.

[ziggytrix]

too true, kevin.

[Abcdxxxx]

I don't care who they are, or what party they belong to, our officials failed these communities. They have to be accountable for their mistakes.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well, why don't you get the ball rolling? Who deserves the blame? Who deserves to have their office flooded with letters and their computers inundated with e-mails...?