Freedom of religion=Freedom FROM religion??

[CaptainBubba]

Those are also conclusions that fall within the infinite possible scenarios. My statement was that all conclusions on god are arrogant. What your conclusion on the metaphysical world is is completely irrelevant.

[El Blanco]

I myself am not mentally capable of believing because I think too much. Not one theory, statement, or observation regarding religion has ever given me a reason to beleive in anything besides the physical world I percieve around me.

My neighbor's dog has the same philosophy about life. All that matters is what he can see, hear or smell.

[CaptainBubba]

OMG whats wrong with his taste buds and nerve endings? poor dog!

[chrissi]

Well, here's my stance on it.

I'm, for the most part, an atheist, but I suppose I could be called agnostic as well. I think that there probably is no God, because it makes the most sense to me. However, I admit that any religion could be right. Therefore, I will not commit to any of them, because who am I to say which one is infinitely right? Only God would know such things. Just the fact that there are so many religions makes the possibility of each one being right just that little bit smaller, like the math someone mentioned earlier. I dislike Christians who say the bible must be right just because, er, it's the bible and it must be right! And Christians who have never considered the possibility of their idea not being right. That's just ignorant. You know, the ones who try to convert you and all that shit.

[Immortal Goat]

That is why I believe in re-incarnation. It makes sense to me, and I don' t need to worry about displeasing any god, because i just get re-born at the time of my death. Isn't that marvelous?

[kahljorn]

From what I understand of Christianity, God is seen as God of all things. He's omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Besides the things about this that could create long tiring arguments about how he is evil as well(jewish God ), doesn't being God of EVERYTHING also make him the God of other religions as well? I mean he's supposed to be EXISTANCE, not necessarily a person, EXISTANCE. Anyway.

Back when I used to live in my old city, my friend and I were walking by this park that alot of people went to to play sports and crap, there was some kind of Christian thing going on. All old people who seemed like they were reasonably intelligent and stuff, talking about God and such. After some talk, my friend and I decided to ask him this:
"Okay, so there's a man, he has lived a really nice life. He had a family, kids, they were raised good, no abuse. He never killed anyway, and in fact followed all the Rules Christianity says to follow(ten commandments). He was a Good Person, but he was not a Christian. Then there's a serial murderer, in prison, who decides to repent for his sins before he gets his lethal injections. The Man who killed 50 people who repented to God is more likely to go to heaven than the man who actually lived his life GOOD"?

I would appreciate if someone out there could answer that question.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

I honestly can't see why any intelligent person would NOT believe in God. The list of the greatest minds of our time include an assload of people who believed in God.

Plenty of great thinkers were atheists and agnostics. Shall I name a few dozen?

Originally Posted by El Blanco

God cocked an eyebrow and said, " You said it yourself. I have no place in government."

Why yes, if we had forced prayer every day, and a big ol' ten commandments put up, nobody would ever do anything wrong. Society would just peachy keen, just like when the Puritans hanged witches and killed off Indians.

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Then, Mockery, you know christians that aren't really that good.

If you have been introduced to God and Jesus Christ (and I don't mean in person, dumbasses) and you deny the divinity of the Creator or His Son, well, hell is hot and make sure you pack a icechest.

Yes Vince, you and your love of your enemies, kindness, and forgiveness of those who have wronged you really makes you an exemplary Christian.
I don't see you being particulary Christ-like, you fucking arrogant hypocrite.

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Yes, I know. But sometimes the truth isnt rosy.

Anybody ever tell you that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinigar? Everyone knows that Christians believe that any non-Christian is going to hell. Just telling that isn't going to convert them.

[Jeanette X]

Triple post.

[Jeanette X]

Triple post.

[Baalzamon]

Everyone knows that Christians believe that any non-Christian is going to hell. Just telling that isn't going to convert them.

The christians I like the most are the ones that constantly tone down their message and re-interpret it to point that it has lost all of its original meaning, just to try and coax me into their belief system. It only shows me how flexible the whole idea is, and reminds me that in the end, god cares more about what I do and why, rather than whether or not I'm always sure hes there.

I think the best way I can put it is this.

1) I think that the ideals of living as a good person hold true with or without a god, and i believe in them wholeheartedly, despite my lack of faith in the existance of a god.

2) I think that if there is a god, hes a little more concerned with my actions in life, rather than my ability to wade through the dogma of 300 versions of the christian church(other religions aside), and miraculosly pick out the single one that has the best literal interpretations of a book whose credibility and accuracy is sketchy at best IMO.

3) I think that if there is a god, he doesnt give a shit whether I know hes there or not. If he did, he wouldnt have made things such a huge guessing game.

A just god does not make his final judgement based solely on which fundamentalists you decided to agree with in life.

If their is a god, it is my firm belief that in that case ascribing to any religion would be a sin, because they are in conflict, and I as a mortal have no way to know which is true. To suddenly join up with nearest fundamentalist group in my neighborhood that comes to my door first, would be an affront to god, and the free will he has given me.

If god wanted me to choose one and only one religion, there would be absolutely no debate in the world, because any GOD, should damned well be able to get his point across in a clear way that everyone can agree on, if thats what he Really wants to do.

This has not happened. If this has not happened, I can only assume that the religion you practice(athiest and agnostic included) is not considered important by god.

If it was so important to god that everyone on the planet choose him or oblivion, and be perfectly clear on that decision with no debate or lack of certainty, he would acomplish this, because he is GOD. thats what being god is all about isnt it?

This is one of the main reasons I believe that there is either no god, or at the very least that my belief in his existance is less important in his eyes than my actions as a human being.

[FS]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

As Morpheus said...
"Free your mind."

Wouldn't that be a complete mind-job if the Matrix was real and God was nothing but a highly intelligent computer mainframe?

just thought I'd throw that in there...

If you want to keep this discussion serious, please don't. :/

It's funny when you think about it, belief is not much more than to choose to stop asking certain questions. That isn't good or bad, but some people just want to rid their thoughts of all questions and therefore choose the answers - sometimes, the literal Bible. Because they've stopped asking questions, they fail to question the origins of the Bible, and therefore fail to grasp that it's man-made. When you strip the concept of God down to its basics, there's so little left that it can easily exist in perfect harmony with science. In that respect, "God" is merely the answer to a question that no one can answer with certainty - where did it all begin? And that's really no more ridiculous an answer than to say the universe is an infinite circular motion of implosion and explosion.

And if you do go by the literal Bible, or even just the parts of it that describe God, you find that he's not so infinite and infallible as everyone thinks. His patience has limits. He can be angry. He can be sad. He can be happy. He can choose one person over another. He can justify the killing of entire peoples because they don't believe in him. I'm not saying that God's a bastard. I'm saying that man made God in his image.

[VinceZeb]

kahljorn, the person that led the good life but refused to believe in God after someone asked him about it and talked to him about the Bible would be roasting in hell.

Belief in God takes more intelligent, tact, and willpower than not beliving in God. Being an atheist is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc.

[Mockery]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Belief in God takes more intelligent, tact, and willpower than not beliving in God. Being an atheist is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc.

You're such a tool... and what's even more amazing, is that you can go back and read your own posts and you still don't realize it.

[pjalne]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Belief in God takes more intelligent, tact, and willpower than not beliving in God.

Yes, and you of course are shown to have very intelligent and tact.

Won't say anything on your willpower, though.

[VinceZeb]

Yeah, mockery, I'm this big tool that believes in God and is a Catholic because I had this chip installed in my brain by the Holy See that made me a mindless Catholic mouthpiece.

I can see why you don't post too much in this area of your board.

[Mockery]

You're not a tool for believing in God. You're a tool for spewing forth a neverending river of ignorance.

As long as you're being a "Catholic mouthpiece", by all means, go find a priest and get on your knees. At least then you'll be doing something useful with your mouth for a change.

[Zero Signal]

Catholicism irks me to no end.

They (OK, not all, but Catholicism in general) are such paganistic, ritualistic idol worshippers that have corrupted the teachings of the Bible for their millions of followers. In fact, many of the things that they do are in direct violation of the Bible. How quaint.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

Simple mathmatics tells us that anything falling into the category of "metaphysical" is not worth believing in. As "god's" nature is not known by any human, nor could it ever be, as it is beyond our physical comprehension by the very nature of its design, no one can tell you what god actually is, or what an afterlife would be composed of if it does in fact exist.

Have you ever read Emmanuel Kant? That is, at least in part, what he said. He had too much religious faith to dismiss the afterlife out of hand, but the rest of what you wrote sounded pretty close to some of what he's proposed.

[AChimp]

It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc.

Hmm... you must be an atheist then, Vinth, since you get "underwater handjob action" and can "feel the difference" between regular and fake breasts.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I would find it kind of sad and ironic if God was so lonely he damned anybody who didn't believe in him. What the fuck does that matter. You're a fucking idiot if you actually think that.

When people are DIVINELY JUDGED for things they believe in and not their actual values, it's not very Divine. I know you're asking why. Why would a divine God be "Selfish" and "Arrogant"(A perfect Loving God, no less, contradictive to the first half of the bible) to only allow people who "Like and love" him into his holy land. ?

Logic dictates that if God is perfect, then we, as his creations, must also be perfect. How could it be otherwise? Questioning man's perfection is tatamount to questioning the perfection of God. A terse observation reveals to me that man certainly NOT perfect. What does that imply?

Devil's Advocate. The horned one is necessary. Without a diometric opposite (evil), what is there to define what good (God) is? The neverending quest to throw him into the "lake of fire" puzzles me. What would a life without evil be like?

[Baalzamon]

Belief in God takes more intelligent, tact, and willpower than not beliving in God. Being an atheist is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc.

Accepting the fact that there is no god takes more intelligence, tact, and willpower than beliving in God. Being a believer is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc. because god will always forgive us if we are his buddy and ask him to :/

An athiest lives a good life for the sake of good itself, not for the fear of punishment if we do otherwise.

[Vibecrewangel]

I actually think it is harder and more frightening to be an atheist. Faith gives you something to hold on to. Real or imagined you have something to give you strength. An atheist on that same level doesn't have that. It is part of human nature to want that something bigger. Somenthing more powerful than us. Atheists live without that. IMHO that takes more courage.

[pjalne]

I don't think courage, tact or intelligence has anything to do with faith or atheism. I don't know where Vince pulled that from (but a part of his anatomy would be a good guess), I see no reason why these factors should be attributed to any group. There are stupid Christians and stupid Christan groups out there, but that has nothing to do with their religion. There are morons out there, and morons tend to form groups. There are just as many stupid atheists out there, and they also get together to moronize.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Baalzamon

Accepting the fact that there is no god takes more intelligence, tact, and willpower than beliving in God. Being a believer is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc. because god will always forgive us if we are his buddy and ask him to :/

An athiest lives a good life for the sake of good itself, not for the fear of punishment if we do otherwise.

Have you ever read The Hairy Ape by Eugene O'Neill? The interplay between two of the lead characters "Paddy" and "Yank" addresses that issue in a pretty unique way.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Belief in God takes more intelligent, tact, and willpower than not beliving in God. Being an atheist is too easy. It helps us feel good so we can go about our days doing what we want, without conquences, like homosexuality, promiscuity, robbery, etc.

Right Vince. All the atheists have no morals.
I think it is easier to believe in God. What is more comforting-that everything has divine purpose and meaning, or that the universe is a big accident.