Do you believe in a "Hell"?

[Immortal Goat]

Because that is what the Christian hell is based on. Many things in the Christian faith have their roots in mythology.

[kellychaos]

Shhh ... I was asking the rest of the class ... i.e. semi-rhetorical.

[Immortal Goat]

Sorry, should I raise my hand next time, Professor Kelly?

[kellychaos]

I find the melding of pagan religions in the Mediterranean with Judaio-Christian beliefs and interesting topic, that's all.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by kellychaos

Why does Hell sound so much like the Hades in Greek mythology?

Maybe because God inspired the Greeks to think about it that way.

[Immortal Goat]

Thats a bunch of shit and you know it, Blanco. If god had inspired the greeks to think about it that way, then it would have inspired them to think about itself that way. Instead, we are left with a poly-theistic mythology that bears almost no resemblance to Christianity. (however, it makes about as much sense, and is just as probable.)

[El Blanco]

Or, maybe God reveals Himself slowly. Maybe, our minds aren't far along enough to handle too much info at once.

Thats why we go from "kill your enemy and all he lives with" to "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek". Because God wants us to do this slowly.

Think about it. When you were a kid, did your parents just throw every little bit of info at you? Or did you work a lot out yourself and have them push you in the right direction along the way?

[Bennett]

maybe it's because of SCIENCE. i.e. they both knew that the earth's core was a molten mass, and they both viewed hell as being underground... hence the flaming caverns.

Yes I'm being a smartass, but my point is that almost all major religions have some similarities. The arguements for this cut both ways.

[Emu]

Stuff like this is why I'm atheist. :D

[FS]

You're forgetting that at the time, they thought the earth was flat. Of course there were volcanoes, but people probably didn't think the bottom of the world was magma anymore than they thought it was gold or any other stuff they could find in the ground.

[Sethomas]

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

Yeah, I've heard of Purgatory, and guess what. IT'S A CROCK OF SHIT!! The Catholic Church has even admitted it. They invented it to ONCE AGAIN sell indulgences. I may have mis-spoken when I called them Heaven Tickets, but they sure were not anything other than the Medieval version of the "Get Rich Quick" scheme.

For dealing out the term "shit" so loosely when refering to reason you don't grasp, you sure know how to eat your own. Both Augustine and Jerome wrote extensively on the existence of Purgatory. Judas Maccabeus made reference to it IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Try again, dipshit.

[Perndog]

Christianity is based on mythology? Christianity IS mythology. It's got some of the same kinds of stories as the Greeks did, some of the same imagery, some of the same character archetypes. And it is believed by probably the same percentage of today's population as was Greek religion in its time. This isn't an argument against the believability of Christianity (I don't do that anymore unless people shove bibles in my face), just something I'd like to point out.

As for hell? Gosh, I hope not. If God's out there (though I really, really doubt it) and he's really that vengeful, I'm definitely one of the ones on his shit list.

[kahljorn]

God has a good memory

[kahljorn]

"you cannot petition the lord with prrraaayer.

Also I read through this thread, and the guy trying to be smart about omniscience missed the more important factors.

Him knowing things isn't a key.

Him being omnipresent and omnipotent AND omniscient is the important thing. It means he is every, every single thought and idea that goes through your head. People sit around thinking God can read your mind because he's a person with a fat old brain, but he's not. "He's" just a summary of all our ideas, and all matter. Therefore, God is us.

Therefore God sinned and was wrong and whatever bullshit you threw into it.

Without including the oneness factor:

As God is Omnipotent and omnipresent, it means nothing can occur WITHOUT GOD(which is the actual definition of Hell, to be without God or out of his site or something) it means God must have MADE them occur.
Unless the concept of freewill comes in by God somehow allowing humans to make decisions outside of his power-- but then God isn't "all-powerful". Also, in that case it would be referred back to us being mini-Gods if we are capable of such "Creations".

[Bennett]

FS- I said I was being a smartass about the science bit. While I do think that there is a little truth in it, my point (?) was more just to say that all religions interlock in some ways (some more than others). in norse mythology, south american mythologies, in tibetan buddhism hells are described as being an underground place (i know only for certain that in tibetan buddhism that the hells are filled with fire, as well). It makes me think that there is something more than just these two religions having similarities, that it says something about the way we used to view our world and the universe.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Perndog

Christianity is based on mythology? Christianity IS mythology. It's got some of the same kinds of stories as the Greeks did, some of the same imagery, some of the same character archetypes.

You can probably throw in Zarathustra, the Kemetic religion, and a few other mediteranean pagan religions (their stories, allegories, miracles, ect) into the mix to make the list complete.

[ranxer]

i thought the reason the biblical stories have bits and pieces of other cultures and myths is because of the borg like nature of christianity.. assimilation does not mean total obliteration, the stories in the bible were at one time the news of the day trasmitted as audio in the streets..

ie new culture assimilated - new stories of thier gods being eaten/defeated by the 'winner' gods/god.

[kellychaos]

I've read several sources that something similiar in respect to religion only the motivation is slightly difference. For example, in the Roman Catholic religion, many of the pagan rites, ceremonies, and holidays were absorbed from various pagan religions because including things from the old faith served as a sort of lubrication for conversion into the new faith. Even some of the pagan holiday dates were used to kind of place catholicism into the framework of the old ways. That's not to say that the tenets of the Bible are not true or the events spoken about didn't happen ... just maybe the where and when and, to some extent, the how may be slightly skewed.

[Immortal Goat]

And to add to that, Kelly, did you guys realize that Christmas is NOT Jesus' birthday? It is really a pagan holiday that was assimilated into Christianity so the Christians could celebrate their religion and not be persecuted, because EVERYBODY was celebrating at that time of year.

[Perndog]

Duh. Dead horse. Move along. Christmas is a celebration on a now-arbitrary date of Jesus's birth on an unknown date, and few if any Christians will claim that he was actually born on December 25. Everyone still celebrates at that time of year, even non-Christians.

Why don't you go ahead and point out that Chanukah (choose your spelling) is a rather minor Jewish holiday that has been blown out of proportion by modern Jews mainly to pander to their poor whiny kids and all the other Jews that are jealous that Christians have such a huge celebration that they're not a part of? I wonder..

One more topic to toss in the Christianity-bashing pile and no new insights to make that pile smell better.

[Helm]

Hades was supposed to be nothing like the Christian Concept of Hell. It amazes me how you all accepted this bit of information without at all checking up on it. Hades was not about constant suffering or eternal solitude. Hades wasn't even 'punishment' at all. The Elysian Fields were reserved for people who had completed their initiation to the Kawir and Dionysian misteries, and they weren't a 'reward' either. Kelly's overestimating his understanding of those concepts.

[Immortal Goat]

Hmm, I may have misread my mythology, then. I was confused, thanks for straightening that out for me, Helm.

[Snatchtastic]

Originally Posted by Bennett

if god was so concerned with what I wanted, I would've received Jetfire for christmas sometime between the ages of 4 to 9.

Dope, my brother still has his JETFIRE but is arm comes off really easily.

And about Hell and Heaven. I'm skipping both and taking a repeat on life.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Helm

Hades was supposed to be nothing like the Christian Concept of Hell. It amazes me how you all accepted this bit of information without at all checking up on it. Hades was not about constant suffering or eternal solitude. Hades wasn't even 'punishment' at all. The Elysian Fields were reserved for people who had completed their initiation to the Kawir and Dionysian misteries, and they weren't a 'reward' either. Kelly's overestimating his understanding of those concepts.

I never said that Hades was a place of punishment. I only meant that the scenery (and location of ) was similiar. From there, it's all just twisted bastardization. There are also other borrowed things from greek mythology such as horned creatures being tricksters and deceivers. Lo and behold, the popular vision of Satan is a horned, cloven creature. The general view in greek mythology is of ground dwelling creatures or things emanating from the earth as evil - they recalled the older pagan mythos that had since been disgarded but were still being practiced by the country/mountain people. Suprise! The snake represents the devil in christian theology. I don't recall mentioning the Elysian Fields at all.