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Old Feb 21st, 2006, 01:27 PM        Frist calls for halt to UAE Port deal
It's KILLING me that neither naldo or Vinth are here so I could call on them to say who was right, W or Frist. It would be like that psych experiment where you place to food bowls at equal distances from a Baboon and it goes insane.

On the other hand, you cannot imagine how uncomfortable it makes me to find myself agreeing with Frist about something.


Frist Calls for Halt to U.S. Ports Deal

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer 31 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist called Tuesday for the Bush administration to stop a deal permitting a United Arab Emirates company to take over six major U.S. seaports, upping the ante on a fight that several congressmen, governors and mayors are waging with the White House.
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"The decision to finalize this deal should be put on hold until the administration conducts a more extensive review of this matter," said Frist. "If the administration cannot delay this process, I plan on introducing legislation to ensure that the deal is placed on hold until this decision gets a more thorough review."
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Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 11:30 AM       
WASHINGTON - ap wire
President Bush was unaware of the pending sale of shipping operations at six major U.S. seaports to a state-owned business in the United Arab Emirates until the deal already had been approved by his administration, the White House said Wednesday.



So, now, hold on a sec here... W wants to use his VERY FIRST VETO EVER DURING HIS ENTIRE PRESIDENCY over a decision he had NOTHING TO DO WITH?

THAT my friend, is what leadership is all about. Complete, unwavering, unquestioning confidence in the decision of your team to undertake an obviously controversial decision without bothering to inform you.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 10:07 AM       
WASHINGTON, AP wire - Under a secretive agreement with the Bush administration, a company in the United Arab Emirates promised to cooperate with U.S. investigations as a condition of its takeover of operations at six major American ports, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The U.S. government chose not to impose other, routine restrictions.

In approving the $6.8 billion purchase, the administration chose not to require state-owned Dubai Ports World to keep copies of its business records on U.S. soil, where they would be subject to orders by American courts. It also did not require the company to designate an American citizen to accommodate requests by the government.

Outside legal experts said such obligations are routinely attached to U.S. approvals of foreign sales in other industries.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:02 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
So, now, hold on a sec here... W wants to use his VERY FIRST VETO EVER DURING HIS ENTIRE PRESIDENCY over a decision he had NOTHING TO DO WITH?
http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02222006.html#ports

WHO'S RIGHT, MAX!!? WHERE'S MAX!!?

Sorry. I think this Dubai thing is getting a bit exaggerated, IMO. Our ports have been contracted out ot other countries for a while now. To argue that we are somehow less safe because it's Arabs instead of the British or the Japanese is sort of, I dunno, racist, no?
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:24 PM       
we're not at war with the British or the Japanese...and you know as well as I do that your garden variety American doesn't differentiate between Lebanese, Iraqi, Iranian, Turk...etc....they only see "Rag-head".....
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:37 PM       
Sure, but that doesn't justify a knee-jerk reaction to this.

THe people who physically work at the ports may very well still be Americans (or illegal Mexicans, but that's neither here nor there).

And we aren't at war with the UAE.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:47 PM       
Personally, I think the NSA spying is a far bigger scandal, since it ivloves a sitting President admitting to a federal crime and insisting he intends to keep commiting them, but the Republicans don't agree with me.

And I don't know, Kev, handing a huge fat juicy bag of money deal that also has to do with the weakest point in our already sad homeland security operation without even consulting the President (who apparently couldn't care less anyway) to a country that doesn't recognize Israels right to exist might be the kind of play Congress ought to have been consulted about, and if they object, might not be worthy of the very first veto ever used by our President.

Do I think this is blown out of proportion. A little. Do I think it's an excellent example of the administration behaving like a monarchy and proving once again that they are not actually republicans. Do I trust W when he says the deal has been thoroughly vetted and it as safe as can be. Not even slightly. I imagine he knows next to nothing about it, and it might be safe OR it might be a huge corrupt swindle and fantastically dangerous.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 08:18 PM       
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...31_page2.shtml


In Defense Of Dubai

WASHINGTON, Feb. 22, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS) This commentary was written by CBSNews.com's Dick Meyer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A nefarious multinational corporation secretly controlled by a hostile Arab government has engineered a covert takeover of six major U.S. ports. America is at risk of losing control of its borders and compromising national security in an entirely preventable way.

Horselips.

Never have I seen a bogus story explode so fast and so far. I thought I was a connoisseur of demagoguery and cheap shots, but the Dubai Ports World saga proves me a piker. With a stunning kinship of cravenness, politicians of all flavors risk trampling each other as they rush to the cameras and microphones to condemn the handover of massive U.S. strategic assets to an Islamic, Arab terrorist-loving enemy.

The only problem -- and I admit it's only a teeny-weeny problem -- is that 90 percent of that story is false.

The United Arab Emirates is not an Axis of Evil kind of place, it will not own U.S. ports, it will not control security at U.S. ports and there is nothing new about foreigners owning U.S. ports. Odds are higher that you'll be wounded interfering with a congressman providing soundbites than by something smuggled into a port terminal leased by Dubai Ports World.

But please: let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story. And what's wrong with a little Arab-bashing anyway?

I am no expert on ports, transportation or shipping. But it takes very little reading and research to cut through the gas on this one.


Myth #1: An Arab company is trying to buy six American ports.

No, the company is buying up a British company that leases terminals in American ports; the ports are U.S.-owned. To lease a terminal at a U.S. port means running some business operations there -- contracting with shipping lines, loading and unloading cargo and hiring local labor. Dubai Ports World is not buying the ports.

Several companies will lease terminals at a single port. In New Orleans, for example, the company Dubai Ports World is trying to buy (P&O Ports) is just one of eight companies that lease and operate terminals.

P&O Ports does business in 18 other countries. None of them are in righteous lathers about the sale of the business to a company owned by the United Arab Emirates. Dubai Ports World already operates port facilities all over the world, including such security-slacker states as China, Australia, Korea and Germany.


Myth #2: The U.S. is turning over security at crucial ports to an Arab company.

No, security at U.S. ports is controlled by U.S. federal agencies led by the Coast Guard and the U.S. Customs and Border Control Agency, which are part of the Homeland Security department. Local jurisdictions also provide police and security personnel.

Complaints about security at ports should be directed to the federal government.



Myth #3: American ports should be American.

Well, it's too late, baby. According to James Jay Carafano of the Heritage Foundation (a place really known for its Arab-loving, soft-on-terror approach), "Foreign companies already own most of the maritime infrastructure that sustains American trade…" Thirty per cent of the countries port terminals are operated by companies that are, um, unAmerican.

At the port of Los Angeles, 80 per cent of the terminals are operated by foreign companies. Chinese companies operate more than half the terminals. So why is this suddenly a threat? After all, political outcry managed to scupper the deal a few months ago in which a Chinese company was going to take over the Unocal oil company.

Remember the global economy? Internationally, 24 of the 25 largest companies that operate port terminals aren't American. That means just about every container that enters a U.S. port has come from a foreign-controlled facility.

Go to any port in the country and you'll be lucky to see a single giant vessel with U.S.A. on its stern. Foreign-owned airplanes fly into American airports every hour. Many U.S. companies have foreign entities among their largest shareholders.

My colleague Charlie Wolfson reports that State Department sources say Dubai Ports World already handles port calls for U.S. Navy ships from the 5th fleet for their regular port calls in the United Arab Emirates -- a pretty high measure of trustworthiness.


Myth #4: The United Arab Emirates has "very serious" al Qaeda connections.

That's what Republican Rep. Peter King says. It's also what the administration said of pre-war Iraq, but that didn't mean it was true. I suppose you could say each and every Arab and Islamic country has al Qaeda issues, but even on that yardstick the UAE is a pretty good player and by most accounts, getting better.

Politicians have been quick to point out that two of the 9/11 hijackers were from UAE. And we're turning over our ports to them? Well, by that logic, we shouldn't let Lufthansa land in our airports or have military bases in Germany, because that country housed a bunch of the 9/11 hijackers as they were plotting.

Yes, Dubai has plenty of blood in its hands, especially as a source or courier for terror funds. To my knowledge its crimes were not government sponsored. It is not a rogue state. It has been among the closer and more cooperative Arab allies for the past two years (another conspiracy theory: Bush is paying them off at the expense of our safety).

Some combination of these facts led the Dubai Ports deal to be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, a joint effort of a dozen government agencies tasked with security (yes, I know, that's slim solace).

Certainly the security of American ports is an important issue. Certainly who controls the finances of companies that lease terminals at ports is far down the to-do list of how to improve security at ports.

That has everything to do with adequate funding and proper management at the relevant agencies. Management is the responsibility of the executive branch, while funding and oversight is the job of Congress. There is scant evidence that Congress or the administration have excelled in their duties.

That's why it's so tempting for politicians of both parties to indulge in xenophobic Arab-bashing on this matter of minimal national security importance. There are scads of real homeland security issues and glaring national security problems coming out of Arab or Muslim states; this is not in either category, not even close. But as one Republican said, regardless of the facts, the administration was politically "tone deaf" on this one. Appearance is more important than reality.

Often bipartisanship is a sign of pragmatic consensus or noble common cause. In this case it is merely a demonstration of an occupational hazard of politicians: cover-your-arse-itis.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dick Meyer, a veteran political and investigative producer for CBS News, is the Editorial Director of CBSNews.com, based in Washington.

E-mail questions, comments, complaints, arguments and ideas to
Against the Grain. We will publish some of the interesting (and civil) ones, sometimes in edited form.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 09:42 PM       
Wait a minute. Arab-bashing? Outsourcing our security is a mistake, just the same way it was a mistake to subsidize our military in Iraq by hiring privatized companies, and just the same way hiring a private security company to go into New Orleans amongst the other 50 State, City, and Government agencies running around was a bad idea.

Now, should we be extra-extra concerned that it's the UAE? Well. Duh. This was part of a sweetheart deal to launch Dubai as a publicly traded company, and like Bush's other sweetheart deals, they're rarely in the best interest of our Country. See, in UAE's quest to become viewed as moderates they've become the crossroad for sketchy activity. Their security as a nation is guarenteed by us, the United States.

The whole multiculturalist "What message does this send to the Arab States" defense is just pandering. Why do we need to reward anyone for being decent? If they're true allies, it should be because they stand with us for moral reasons, not because we hand out good treats to make it worth their while. It's the absolute wrong way to make friends in the Mid-East. You think Saudi really has our back, because the US threw them a bone and pushed the Road Map peace plan? You think Egypt's a really friend, when we pay them 2 billion a year to stay out of trouble, and adhere to a peace treaty? I don't care how loyal any of these nations are, they should not be gaurding our soveriegnty. Our borders are already a mess.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 09:58 PM       
We're not "out-sourcing our security". That's politically motivated lingo used b people like Hilary Clinton to score points in Iowa.

The UAE isn't in control of our port security, any more than China or Britain was/is in charge of our port security. The federal government regulates that, at it still will, whether it's Dubai or Greenland that's getting the shipping contract.

You can argue that we're not examining the contents in ships well enough, but that argument was a fctor before this deal. That's not Dubai's fault, it's our fault.

And I don't see this as a multiculturalist argument. It's the global economy, and it's the way we've done thing for a while now. The only reason this has traction now is because politicians on both sides of the aisle see an opportunity to be tough on security. Port security is one of those sexy topics that has come up, but has never been addressed. Now everyone with 2006-2008 ambitions can get in line an say they "did something." Bull.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 12:17 AM       
Why should any foriegn government handle our ports?

Singapore, the less controversial choice, wouldn't really ease my mind. I think we need to revise whatever policy puts a Chinese company on our ports, too. For one thing, we already give Dubai plenty of business with military contracts...there just has to be limits.

Are we hiring the UAE that puts females in authority positions, or are we hiring a company subsidized by people who support Hamas with a tiered payment system to reward Shaheeds, and defended the Al Qaeda money trail? Hamas credit the UAE for being the first to use oil as a weapon. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=21413

What is your understanding of what these companies are doing exactly? It's not just the usual Hilary Clinton hysterics, this time. The administration has a terrible record so far. Why should we believe they've made an ethical smart choice in this regard?
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 10:22 AM       
"Now everyone with 2006-2008 ambitions can get in line an say they "did something. Bull."

While certainly true, it is in no way an argument that nothing is wrong here.

"The administration has a terrible record so far. Why should we believe they've made an ethical smart choice in this regard?"

Exactly.

Right now W is claiming that while he supports this deal with a Veto threat, he didn't even know about it until after it happened. Plausible. I think his administration involves him in decision mking as little as possible. But here's my question to you Kev. The folks who made the decision. Are they

A.) So positively stupid that it never crossed their minds that rightly or wrongly this would be a controversial decision, especially in this election season where anyone with 06, 08 inclinations would jump all over it

or

B.) Pulling the sort of bullshit "Make my friends rich fuck everthing else" type of deal the adminstration is frequently guided by. Not to be paranoid, but in the frenzy of denail right now (not only W didn't know about it, Neither did Rumsfeld or anyone at Homeland security even though ports are their domain.) Dick Cheney hasn't said he didn't know. Someone ought to ask him if anybody knows what hunting lodge he's holed up at this week.

If the answer is A, it worries me, because people as stupid as that should not be negotiating deals about ports. They might do something stupid, like forget to require the company to keep records in America where they can be suppoeanad. Like we do with the Britts and the Chinese. A 45 day delay so someone besides people as dumb as answer A would indicate can look over the deal wouldn't hurt, especially if it's people from Both camps that want to win elections.

If the Answer is B, then I don't trust that the deal was looked into at all, except in terms of who it made money for. Dubai has positioned itself in a very wierd and somewhat brilliant way, as a country and a commidity. Sort of like if Coca Cola was a company. I think we need to look under some rocks and see who in the administration gets rich the fastest if Dubai gts this deal.

If you have a C, D, E or F I'd be happy to hear them.

Like I said, I'd be way happier if the folks who would be King both R and D were this upset over the imperial presidency, but if they wrre they wouldn't want to be King. So it's sexy. You're waiting until this current batch of politicians is motivated by altruism and a keen desire to humbly serve their constituents? If this gets wider investigation and it turns out to be a tempest in a teapot I'll be fine with it. But answers A and B both smell rotten to me, even if they smell sexy too.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 12:49 PM       
This is not a practice that began with this administration.

If your argument is something about human rights un Dubai, or the treatment of workers, then I suppose I can sympathize.

However, if you think it's a security thing, then you're barking up the wrong tree. HS regulates our ports, not this company (which will probably employ a great number of the same people it employed when the British owned it). To my understanding, this wasn't some deal bartered bythe Bush admin. This is the policy that our government takes on dealing out these contracts. Thisisn't simply a bad Bush policy.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 01:38 PM       
So, are you positing

C.) This was a perfectly normal business transaction not unusual in any way. Its understandable that the low level buerocrats who conducted the deal never informed higher ups, or if they did the higher ups saw no reason the President needed to even know the deal was taking place. It's not a matter of stupidity or lack of forsight, it's just that this sale (Which violates the lease in the NYC case and lacks assurances required by other foreign companies involved in our port dealings) simply had no features at all that ditinguished it from any other sale our government is in a position to approve.



I guess it would be different if Iran or North Korea was buying the ports. But, if as W argues, the company (or in tis case, foreign country) getting the crates off the ships and doing the cutoms paperwork. But no, it would be different, because they are our enemies.

But what bout our staunch friend in the W.O.T, Pakistan? I personally would think that might be worth letting the Pres in on, what with their lax history of passing out Nuclear knowhow and them being a military dictatorship. I think similar concerns regarding a monarchy that was one of the few countries to ever officially recognize the Taliban.

And when it's the Bush admnistration offering the assurances that there's nothing to worry about, a pubic outcry for fourty five days just to see if maybe they might just be full of shit or perhaps totally incompetent doesn't seem so outlandish to me. Who knows, maybe the guy who made the decision without telling W is some guy who has no prior experience in Ports and used to, I don't know, be in charge of selecting and policing the Judges for Dog shows? Stranger things have happned.

I agree that anyone who thinks Dubai would be in charge of Port Security is a hysteric. But anyone who think that being in charge of offloading cargo and handling customs declarations about contents has nothing to do with security, and that the country owning that operation isn't a matter of significance... why one might almost argue they had a pre 9/11 mindset.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 02:21 PM       
First of all, we know Homeland Security has zero ability to delegate. What I understand is would actually be a subcontract. Our ports handle all sorts of sordid business to begin with, and only 3% of it is regulated by Homeland Security. I'm still at a loss in trying to understand how a foriegn company can be put in charge of these ports daily operations without the giving them the opportunity to breach security clearances, and gain exposure to information which should be priviledged.

By the way, a Chinese company was blocked from buying a US Oil services company, last year, for the same concerns.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 02:43 PM       
There seems to be three distinct arguments here that you guys are trying to make.

1. Dubai is a deplorable nation, so they shouldn't be put in charge of these ports, mainly due to their poor record on human rights and terrorism.

2. Homeland Security is a dysfunctional organization, so handing over the port contract to an ARAB nation is bad.

3. Foreign countries shouldn't run the companies that ultimately run our shipping.

For the first one: I think Dubai certainly has a better record on compliance in the WOT than some other allies of ours (although Saudi Arabia is being applauded today for stopping that bombing). Dubai has been helpful in assisting us in the war, and the company they now own (which seemed perfectly fine when it was owned and operated by white folks from England) has a solid track record around the world.

#2: Okay, so HS is a poorly run organization, and they have no business contracting out the ports. Where were you two weeks ago, or a few months ago for that matter? It has all of a sudden become a security threat, simply because an Arab nation owns THE COMPANY that will be processing the shipments.

If you think HS is too inept to handle security, then you're making a different argument.

#3: Fine, foreign countries shouldn't own the companies that often just hire American longshoremen to handle port cargo. But what again is your argument against this? Two of the 9/11 terrorists were from there? Haven't we already capitulated on that one regarding Saudi Arabia???

Max, you argue that "anyone who think that being in charge of offloading cargo and handling customs declarations about contents has nothing to do with security, and that the country owning that operation isn't a matter of significance... why one might almost argue they had a pre 9/11 mindset."

It matters because why? Why does it matter now, when it didn't seem to matter to you before it was owned by Arabs???
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 02:46 PM       
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By the way, a Chinese company was blocked from buying a US Oil services company, last year, for the same concerns.
No, to my recollection, the Chinese company withdrew the offer due to the protests. Granted, it may have been blocked, but that doesn't make it right.
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Old Feb 24th, 2006, 04:24 PM       
What's the difference if they were blocked, or just backed off due to protests? It shows that the scrutiny over our ports didn't just start the second someone said Arab.

Of course a front page news story is going to get more attention - but we know Burbank already has some OCD issues that forces him to make a post everytime he finds out about some privitized, outsourcing type story. You know my problems with the UAE run a little deeper then some Arab-phobia. There is greater awareness for one aspect of a huge problem, that most Americans are overwhelmed in frustrations over. The bottom line is deep down in their hearts, the typical American doesn't trust that we really have true allies in the Islamic States. The last thing we should encourage is more entaglements, especially at a time when disengagement, and alternative fuel resources have become popularized terms for a sensible long term goal towards safety. I think the reasons for that distrust are valid. I also think the strong reaction to this story is sincere, and comes from a rare moment of sensible clarity.
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 01:21 AM       
I find it ironic that no one even thought twice about port security before they found out that arabs would be handeling it.
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 10:24 AM       
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Originally Posted by Preechr
Here's a timely example: It seems that the Democrat impetus behind protesting the sale of those American ports doesn't actually lie in real concern for security. In reality, they are attempting to protect the jobs of longshoremen who might get down-sized if the firm from Dubai were to take control and automate some of their jobs. The same thing happened a few years ago when new technology threatened to streamline the process of unloading ships, and they pulled a big strike, remember?

Speaking of that Twinkie job, did you know union longshoremen make around $100k/year to drive forklifts and cranes?
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 11:05 AM       
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I find it ironic that no one even thought twice about port security before they found out that arabs would be handeling it.
Read above, re: China.
Not as much attention, not as much outrage...but c'mon, Americans never talked about port security? Where have you been?

Preechr - the dubai folks are already job recruiting off their website. I really do think people are on the same page with their concerns... I don't believe there's much difference on how one party or another is appraoching this. The Neo-cons are backing away and supporting Bush a bit quicker, but that's no shock.
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 11:05 AM       
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By the way, a Chinese company was blocked from buying a US Oil services company, last year, for the same concerns.
pffft... that was in Syriana, check your facts.
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 11:41 AM       
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Originally Posted by Cosmo Electrolux
we're not at war with the British or the Japanese...and you know as well as I do that your garden variety American doesn't differentiate between Lebanese, Iraqi, Iranian, Turk...etc....they only see "Rag-head".....
Well,living in BackWaterFuck-Iowa,I have to hear: "Hey! Bush is be a gud prez-uh-dent! Saddum hurt r country at 911!"

Like Saddam Hussein even had anything to do with 911.
We attacked the wrong country,for oil,yet stupid rednecks only believe in firing their 12 gages and "Towel-Head Huntin",thinking that they're all the same if they wear a turban.

I hate JesusLand
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 12:55 PM       
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pffft... that was in Syriana, check your facts.
Uh, no. it happened.

Preechr-- Forgicve me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that it's just the Democrats that are jumping all over this (see title of thread).

Everybody is going to use this, especially since it's the mid-cycle.
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Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2006, 05:02 PM       
It's Ok... I forgive you, buddy.

The Dems started the challenge to it. The Republicans jumped on it to both spin it their way and to have a nice little "I'M not just another Dubya Yes-Man" feather in their caps.

This is political gold to the Dems, just another news-cycle issue to the GOP. Kerry made a lot of hay with port security in 04, so they can claim some high ground here. Their impetus here, however, was protection of the longshoremen's union. That pressing it will help them appear stronger on defense is a happy bonus. That's two really good reasons that make me believe this will be a news item for the next 20 months.

I honestly believe the deal will die. The Bushies are doing a hell of a job of calming the waters, but I think their tack is wrong and their will to push it through weak. Maybe I'm just not factoring in enough for whatever behind the scenes benefits there are to bribing the UAE with foreign aid type money filtered through a corporate deal such as this one. Yeah, we need the air base and the flyover rights, as well as the entry point for future ME conflicts... the intelligence help and the tap into ME finance... but I'm just not sure we will lose those things were this deal to fail.

There are also some benefits to the GOP in killing it. Even if it goes away, though, I still think port-security should be a major topic for the Dems till 08 is decided. I will honestly be amazed if they don't start up one of those "whisper campaigns" trying to paint this deal, and others that they could dig up, as TeamBush© deliberately opening holes in our defense in order to score another attack for their political benefit... even without an additional terror attack on America.

If they don't run with this ball they've taken, I have no hope left for the party at all. I don't really have any measurable hope for it now, but if they blow this opportunity, I will be able to comfortably say they are completely un-salvageable and hopeless... at least until the next chance to sign out comes around...
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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