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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 12:49 AM        NYT: Homosexuality and Animals
Love That Dare Not Squeak Its Name
By DINITIA SMITH

Published: February 7, 2004


Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": that is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins. When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.

At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly. Roy and Silo sat on it for the typical 34 days until a chick, Tango, was born. For the next two and a half months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Mr. Gramzay is full of praise for them.

"They did a great job," he said. He was standing inside the glassed-in penguin exhibit, where Roy and Silo had just finished lunch. Penguins usually like a swim after they eat, and Silo was in the water. Roy had finished his dip and was up on the beach.

Roy and Silo are hardly unusual. Milou and Squawk, two young males, are also beginning to exhibit courtship behavior, hanging out with each other, billing and bowing. Before them, the Central Park Zoo had Georgey and Mickey, two female Gentoo penguins who tried to incubate eggs together. And Wendell and Cass, a devoted male African penguin pair, live at the New York Aquarium in Coney Island. Indeed, scientists have found homosexual behavior throughout the animal world.

This growing body of science has been increasingly drawn into charged debates about homosexuality in American society, on subjects from gay marriage to sodomy laws, despite reluctance from experts in the field to extrapolate from animals to humans. Gay groups argue that if homosexual behavior occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of homosexuals should be protected. On the other hand, some conservative religious groups have condemned the same practices in the past, calling them "animalistic."

But if homosexuality occurs among animals, does that necessarily mean that it is natural for humans, too? And that raises a familiar question: if homosexuality is not a choice, but a result of natural forces that cannot be controlled, can it be immoral?

The open discussion of homosexual behavior in animals is relatively new. "There has been a certain cultural shyness about admitting it," said Frans de Waal, whose 1997 book, "Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape" (University of California Press), unleashed a torrent of discussion about animal sexuality. Bonobos, apes closely related to humans, are wildly energetic sexually. Studies show that whether observed in the wild or in captivity, nearly all are bisexual, and nearly half their sexual interactions are with the same sex. Female bonobos have been observed to engage in homosexual activity almost hourly.

Before his own book, "American scientists who investigated bonobos never discussed sex at all," said Mr. de Waal, director of the Living Links Center of the Yerkes Primate Center at Emory University in Atlanta. "Or they sometimes would show two females having sex together, and would say, `The females are very affectionate.' "

Then in 1999, Bruce Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" (St. Martin's Press), one of the first books of its kind to provide an overview of scholarly studies of same-sex behavior in animals. Mr. Bagemihl said homosexual behavior had been documented in some 450 species. (Homosexuality, he says, refers to any of these behaviors between members of the same sex: long-term bonding, sexual contact, courtship displays or the rearing of young.) Last summer the book was cited by the American Psychiatric Association and other groups in a "friend of the court" brief submitted to the Supreme Court in Lawrence v. Texas, a case challenging a Texas anti-sodomy law. The court struck down the law.

"Sexual Exuberance" was also cited in 2000 by gay rights groups opposed to Ballot Measure 9, a proposed Oregon statute prohibiting teaching about homosexuality or bisexuality in public schools. The measure lost.

In his book Mr. Bagemihl describes homosexual activity in a broad spectrum of animals. He asserts that while same-sex behavior is sometimes found in captivity, it is actually seen more frequently in studies of animals in the wild.

Among birds, for instance, studies show that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild are homosexual. Females perform courtship rituals, like tossing their heads at each other or offering small gifts of food to each other, and they establish nests together. Occasionally they mate with males and produce fertile eggs but then return to their original same-sex partners. Their bonds, too, may persist for years.

Among mammals, male and female bottlenose dolphins frequently engage in homosexual activity, both in captivity and in the wild. Homosexuality is particularly common among young male dolphin calves. One male may protect another that is resting or healing from wounds inflicted by a predator. When one partner dies, the other may search for a new male mate. Researchers have noted that in some cases same-sex behavior is more common for dolphins in captivity.

Male and female rhesus macaques, a type of monkey, also exhibit homosexuality in captivity and in the wild. Males are affectionate to each other, touching, holding and embracing. Females smack their lips at each other and play games like hide-and-seek, peek-a-boo and follow the leader. And both sexes mount members of their own sex.

Paul L. Vasey, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of Lethbridge in Canada, who studies homosexual behavior in Japanese macaques, is editing a new book on homosexual behavior in animals, to be published by Cambridge University Press. This kind of behavior among animals has been observed by scientists as far back as the 1700's, but Mr. Vasey said one reason there had been few books on the topic was that "people don't want to do the research because they don't want to have suspicions raised about their sexuality."

Some scientists say homosexual behavior in animals is not necessarily about sex. Marlene Zuk, a professor of biology at the University of California at Riverside and author of "Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex From Animals" (University of California Press, 2002), notes that scientists have speculated that homosexuality may have an evolutionary purpose, ensuring the survival of the species. By not producing their own offspring, homosexuals may help support or nurture their relatives' young. "That is a contribution to the gene pool," she said.

For Janet Mann, a professor of biology and psychology at Georgetown University, who has studied same-sex behavior in dolphin calves, their homosexuality "is about bond formation," she said, "not about being sexual for life."

She said that studies showed that adult male dolphins formed long-term alliances, sometimes in large groups. As adults, they cooperate to entice a single female and keep other males from her. Sometimes they share the female, or they may cooperate to help one male. "Male-male cooperation is extremely important," Ms. Mann said. The homosexual behavior of the young calves "could be practicing" for that later, crucial adult period, she added.

But, scientists say, just because homosexuality is observed in animals doesn't mean that it is only genetically based. "Homosexuality is extraordinarily complex and variable," Mr. Bagemihl said. "We look at animals as pure biology and pure genetics, and they are not." He noted that "the occurrence of same-sex behavior in animals provides support for the nurture side as well." He cited as an example the ruff, a type of Arctic sandpiper. There are four different classes of male ruffs, each differing from the others genetically. The two that differ most from each other are most similar in their homosexual behaviors.

Ms. Zuk said, "You have inclinations that are more or less supported by our genes and in some environmental circumstances get expressed." She used the analogy of right- or left-handedness, thought to be genetically based. "But you can teach naturally left-handed children to use their right hand," she pointed out.

Still, scientists warn about drawing conclusions about humans. "For some people, what animals do is a yardstick of what is and isn't natural," Mr. Vasey said. "They make a leap from saying if it's natural, it's morally and ethically desirable."

But he added: "Infanticide is widespread in the animal kingdom. To jump from that to say it is desirable makes no sense. We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in. Animals don't take care of the elderly. I don't particularly think that should be a platform for closing down nursing homes."

Mr. Bagemihl is also wary of extrapolating. "In Nazi Germany, one very common interpretation of homosexuality was that it was animalistic behavior, subhuman," he said.

What the animal studies do show, Ms. Zuk observed, is that "sexuality is a lot broader term than people want to think."

"You have this idea that the animal kingdom is strict, old-fashioned Roman Catholic," she said, "that they have sex just to procreate."

In bonobos, she noted, "you see expressions of sex outside the period when females are fertile. Suddenly you are beginning to see that sex is not necessarily about reproduction."

"Sexual expression means more than making babies," Ms. Zuk said. "Why are we surprised? People are animals."
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 01:30 AM       
there was a time when I would (and did) adamantly detest homosexuals and bisexuals, especially on these boards, but I've recently changed my views on the topic.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 01:49 AM       
I think its really irrelevant whether homosexuality is natural or a choice. There are plenty of natural impulses that shouldn't be acted on, and plenty of 'unnatural' choices that are in no way harmful or wrong.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 03:10 AM       
Quote:
Female bonobos have been observed to engage in homosexual activity almost hourly.
Hot lesbian bonobo action
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 05:53 AM       
The more interesting thing about all this for me is this: If homosexuality and bisexuality is something natural in the sense that it's not some sort of isolated error but instead a formal percent of some species gets born bi or homosexual, then what purpose can same-sex mating serve in a natural environment? The purpose of sexual intercourse in nature is to procreate the species, not to have fun fucking. Doesn't an animal that cannot spawn progeny (lol) become useless instinctively. The second strongest instinct is that of creating life.

I see two answers to all this. Either a few natural abberation cases somehow survived natural clensing (and we human observers might have been more than a little involved in that) and spread their defective genes, or a large fraction of our academic knowledge on instinctual urges is flawed in some ways. The incidents seem far too widespread for the first answer to be completely valid... And even if it was, and sex was still defined narrowly as means of procreation in the animal kingdom, then why give pleasure recievers to animals at all? There are quite a few documented cases of species mating and having offspring where the sexual process is either completely uneventful in terms of sensory payoff, or even painful and still those species are instinctively driven to mate nonetheless. They don't need to have fun doing it. So why orgasms?

For humans, the pleasure derived from sex serves as additional urging towards mating, but given that we have a degree of free will (don't debate this, we've had threads upon threads. I'm presupposing and so fuck you) the orgasm factor would be a pretty big drive for people if we could theoretically remove the instinctual hardwiring (rip out the ippocambus from the brain? Fun!). So for people, it sort of makes sense for nature to provide additional means of persuasion to procreate. But most animals are anything but self-aware. Instinctual automations that would and indeed can procreate based on sort-of scripted behaviour. So why on earth would they fuck for fun and not for children?

Monkeys I can understand, since they're closer in terms of awareness to a human than to an amoeba. Same for dolphins, and a few other species. But... gulls?


I think we have defined some aspects of animal and human genetic behaviour too narrowly.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 10:52 AM       
Could it possibly be that any animal looks for companionship and animals that have a brain the size of a walnut cannot distinguish the fact that they are attracted to the same sex?
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 01:20 PM       
But can you really have a desire for companionship if you're not self aware? I suppose you could look at some pets and say its possible.

But ya, the idea of homosexuality being genetic runs into some big problems when it comes to sexual selection. :/
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 02:00 PM       
why is homosexuality morraly questionable?

i could never see how or talk to anyone who though it *was* wrong without it resulting in either complete logic failure or bible-thumping.

two men love each other. two women love each other. it's the same love that a man and woman have for each other. how the hell do you go against that, or better yet, get *angry* at it?
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 02:04 PM       
Outside of religion, I really don't see how homosexuality could be considered wrong by any ethical standard.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 02:04 PM       
Well, it could conceivabley violate the very utilitarian ethics upon which modern "nihilist" liberalism has built itself. After all, the pleasure that the majority gain from supressing homosexuals may theoretically be higher than the pain caused to the homosexuals. Same thing with the murder of jews in Germany.

But, hey. That's why I reject utilitarian ethics.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 03:09 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papa Goat

But ya, the idea of homosexuality being genetic runs into some big problems when it comes to sexual selection. :/
Maybe it's just how the population is kept under control.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 04:14 PM       
In Stranger In A Strange Land, Heinlein theorized (although fictionally) that it took up to five different and distinct sexualities to create a human life.
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Old Feb 7th, 2004, 06:28 PM       
Those Penguins should come to Massachusettes and get married.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 02:59 PM       
I guess that means Darwin was wrong and Creationism is right !!!
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 03:27 PM       
Laisez faire creationsim.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 03:37 PM       
I don't care if a man wants to fuck another man. That's between them and is none of my business.

Marriage on the other hand should have nothing to do with the law and should stay in the churches where it was invented.

Civil Unions should replace marriage as far as the law is concerned and then religious establishment would have nothing to bitch about.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 04:11 PM       
Are you saying that all marriages not related to a speciffic religous institution should be civil unions, and the Marriage should be an exclussivley religous institution?

So that say, any marriage performed by a judge or a justuice of the peace, any common law marriage would be a civil union and not a marriage?

I'm not saying anything, just looking for clarity, but a distinction between legal nd religous marriage seems like an arguable position.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 04:34 PM       
I think that the government should have NOTHING to do with "MARRIAGE"......
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 05:37 PM       
I think I might agree with Ronnie.........
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 05:40 PM       
what hapened to "herbivore"?
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 06:22 PM       
He started eating meat again.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 06:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
what hapened to "herbivore"?
Yeah, I'm a Republican who likes to club baby seals now, too.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 06:57 PM       
Oh! I see.

So where is Herbivore?
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 07:08 PM       
I'm his cousin.
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Old Feb 8th, 2004, 07:53 PM       
That doesn't answer my question though, does it?
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