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punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
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Old Apr 28th, 2003, 10:23 PM        The word of the day is...
Extortion. Can you say extortion kids?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...eas_nuclear_12

Powell: N. Korea Ties Disarmament to Aid

WASHINGTON - The United States is reviewing a North Korean proposal to give up the nation's missiles and nuclear facilities in exchange for substantial U.S. economic benefits, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said Monday.

The North Koreans set forth the proposal last week in talks in Beijing that were focused on U.S. concerns about North Korea (news - web sites)'s weapons programs.


Powell called the meeting "quite useful" and said U.S. officials are comparing notes with South Korea (news - web sites), Japan, China, Russia, Australia and others. At the Beijing talks, China joined the United States and North Korea.

The North Koreans "did put forward a plan that would ultimately deal with their nuclear capability and their missile activities. But they, of course, expect something considerable in return," Powell said.

Powell's somewhat hopeful account of the meetings contrasted with initial accounts last week by other U.S. officials, who highlighted the negative aspects of the North Korean presentation.

These included a North Korean acknowledgment for the first time that the country possessed nuclear weapons and was contemplating exporting or even using them, depending on U.S. actions.

In South Korea, government sources were quoted in media reports as saying there were positive aspects of the North Korean proposal to make it worth pursuing further.

The two Koreas had difficulty, however, crafting a joint statement after two days of Cabinet-level talks in the North Korean capital of Pyongyang.

South Korea demanded that the joint statement deal with concern over North Korea's nuclear programs. But the North insisted the South should not meddle in the nuclear standoff with Washington, media reports said.

The North instead tried to shift the focus of the talks to linking cross-border railways and other economic projects with South Korea that are part of a reconciliation process that grew out of a historic North-South summit in June 2000.

The North Korean offer to swap their military might in exchange for economic benefits echoed a similar proposal three months ago by President Bush (news - web sites).

Bush said then that if North Korea dismantles its nuclear weapons programs, the United States would be willing to assist the country with its food and energy needs.

A senior State Department official said the North made specific reference to its energy problems as part of a long wish list in return for which they would be willing to disarm.

Pyongyang's plutonium-based nuclear weapons program is well known to U.S. officials. The location of a uranium-based program, acknowledged by North Korea last fall, is not known.

As U.S. officials see it, the North undertook these programs in spite of international commitments not to do so.

The administration has said repeatedly that the North must eliminate in a verifiable way it weapons programs before the United States would consider economic benefits.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said it a mistake to focus on the belligerent aspects of North Korea's presentation in Beijing because they represent only part of a much larger whole.

It is in this context that the administration will review last week's talks and decide on next steps, Boucher said.

Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly led the U.S. delegation to the talks and is now back in Washington after sharing his impressions of the outcome with officials in South Korea and Japan.
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ItalianStereotype ItalianStereotype is offline
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Old Apr 28th, 2003, 10:29 PM       
as well as economic aid i believe that they are also demanding diplomatic recognition by the U.S.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 09:50 AM       
It's totally extortion.

But


I'd say that more than half of all international relations are extortion.

Doesn't it all boil down to "Do what I want or I'll find a way to hurt you?"
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 11:18 AM        Nice
Quote:
These included a North Korean acknowledgment for the first time that the country possessed nuclear weapons and was contemplating exporting or even using them, depending on U.S. actions.
Depending on U.S. action.......
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 11:42 AM       
Arrggg ... this is frustrating. At the beginning of the Korean War we pushed the North Koreans up to the Chinese border. Then, the Chinese, feeling threatened, jumped in and pushed us BACK down to the 38th Parallel. For years, we've been paying this extortion money (give it a name, right?) to theNorth Koreans due to the chinese-backed threat. Now that China seems to be distancing themselves from the North Koreans, they have a nuclear threat. Wasn't there some "in between time" in there somewhere that we could have taken advantage of? :/
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 11:56 AM       
Absolutely. And China could still be played, but it's a very dangerous game. I'm sure China doesn't want a nuclear capable N. Korea either, (since they also pay 'extortion' money to keep them a client state) but they're sure we'll pay the extortion money.

It's a pretty high stakes game for either China or the US to attempt a game of chicken.

But again... calll me cynical but it seems to me most relations between adversarial countries (and often between allies) is a game of extortion, threats, blackmail, strongarming, etc. The only thing I see different here is that North Korea is putting more of it's cards face up on the table.

We told Saddam we wanted him out. We threatened to bomb and invade his country if he did not comply. He didn't, we did. That's not extortion? The threat of Violence underlies all negotiation.
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 12:08 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
We told Saddam we wanted him out. We threatened to bomb and invade his country if he did not comply. He didn't, we did. That's not extortion? The threat of Violence underlies all negotiation.
The old "talk softly and carry a big stick" ... Teddy Roosevelt would be so proud if he wer alive today!
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Zosimus Zosimus is offline
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Old Apr 29th, 2003, 02:02 PM       
[On a footnote] Teddy also said this:

Quote:
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt
I think that it is well worth a few thoughts when considering anything that has to do with our/US involvement with other countries!
In reality this should have been posted on every billboard in the US before our invasion on Iraq. Now, instead we have to consider it every time gwb starts turning his head to every other nation than the one he is supposed to be serving!
This is (a little) beside the point of the thread but, it isn't entirely proposterous to refer this to the above either....
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kellychaos kellychaos is offline
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Old Apr 30th, 2003, 12:07 PM       
I only mentioned Teddy because of his famous slogan and that he seemed to be one of the more imperialistic presidents who deplored the U.S. previous isolationist position and stuck his nose in the business of a lot of other countries where we probably didn't belong ... plus his military heroism is often exaggerated.
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Zosimus Zosimus is offline
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Old Apr 30th, 2003, 12:40 PM       
I appreciate the follow-up Kelly . To be quite honest, I had to go find some facts on Teddy to completely understand who he was and what he stood for:

From:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760610.html

I took:

Quote:
Roosevelt embarked on a wide-ranging program of government reform and conservation of natural resources. He ordered antitrust suits against several large corporations, threatened to intervene in the anthracite coal strike of 1902, which prompted the operators to accept arbitration, and, in general, championed the rights of the “little man” and fought the “malefactors of great wealth.”
That is what I knew about him but it is dangerous to assume things about people, when you don't have enough facts about them - stupidly, that is what I did. Kindda like thinking "wow, Hitler must have been cool, because he was a vegetarian!"
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Old Apr 30th, 2003, 12:50 PM       
Well, there's no doubt he did accomplish some admirable things as president which you can't take away from him because of his foreign policy ... it's just that that is the thing which sticks in my head about him and jades my opinion of him.
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Zosimus Zosimus is offline
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Old Apr 30th, 2003, 01:16 PM       
yeah, I see what you mean. Apparently, the quote you used, was his favorite!
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