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kahljorn · #26

lol, as for the flashbacks ive never heard of that actually happening ;/ you need to understand something about drugs, not every trip is like super strong and many of them are mostly excessive body highs that make you feel euphoric. The "Flashbacks" most people talk about would be bubbles of the drug at most. I mean, a lot of acid would have to store on your spine in order for one little crack to cause you to hallucinate crazily and get out of control.

no drug is going to fuck you over on the first try unless you have an allergy or some type of physiological problem. People who have bad trips just let it get a hold of them like a Neurosis. all facts about facts.

ps "bad trips" in my experience are more fun and "Meaningful" than the good ones.

Quote:

Retention of LSD in spinal fluid

A meme with particular appeal to anti-drug educators who wish to instill a fear of the potential long-term effects of LSD in their pupils, and also among casual high school age LSD users, is that the body stores crystallized LSD in spinal fluid or in fat cells, which at some point dislodges and causes horrific flashbacks, perhaps years later. Although the body does store some toxins in fat tissue, and residues of some drugs and toxins can be found in spinal fluid, LSD is not among these. It breaks down entirely within the body in hours, and its metabolites are excreted within days.
"Flashbacks" are themselves a dubious phenomenon. Most LSD users never experience flashbacks in the sense popularly described -- a resurgence of the drug effect months or years after last having taken it. However, the small number of people who experience severely traumatic bad trips may have a similar effect to post-traumatic stress disorder.

wikipediaed

lol look they quoted "Flashbacks" like I did.
whoa and you don't know how many idiot liars have told me they got rolled for LSD in their spines, or how many people have told me that's how you get flashbacks. there's another thing about flashbacks and how it's also probably bullshit/misdiagnosis/idiots.

Lenor · #27

kahl - I refuse to allow myself to steep to your level of desperation, shown clearly in this thread, to be absofuckinlutly positive of something.

But Unfortunately, your wrong.

Analysis, charts, what may or may not have happened to YOU, does not cover what will or will NOT happen to ANYONE else.

Give it up, you sound like a fucking Mormon, trying to push your idea's and propaganda onto the rest of the board.

Sorry to anyone who is a Mormon, but seriously get a new religion, better yet, worship Satan. At least then you can celebrate your fucking birthday!

kahljorn · #28

Lenor, what are you even talking about? I don't even know why I'm replying since i know you can't read a post longer than one sentance, but here we go anyway.
First I'll ask this since it will hopefully be the crux of my conclusion:
What meaningful, enlightening experiences have you had on drugs? Seriously, answer this question. I would love to hear it. If you can't answer this question, you might as well not respond since it's evident that you would be talking out of your ass rather than from experience.

Have you ever heard of Hassan-I-Sabah? he used to convince people they were enlightened by getting them high on drugs and then having people dance around and treat them like a god. Not only did they think they were enlightened, they were sort of brainwashed by it - i think they thought hassan was so great because he made them feel so good and gave them everything they wanted. It's very similar to the rituals Timothy Leary used, except Sabbah's rituals were used to supposedly indoctrinate assassins and make them do what he wants (sort of like when kidnappees become obsessed with kidnappers).
Hassan I sabbah's famous quote is, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." Ask yourself, how does this apply to consciousness, and why would it support what I'm saying? Because it might seem like it could go both ways, but really what it means is that anything is capable with our minds. The drugs can just help fool the mind and manipulate it, if you don't have the capacity to do anything with your mind in the first place you're going nowhere.

HOW DOES THIS FIT IN YOU MIGHT BE WONDERING? Well the entire crux of Timothy leary is that we are capable of controlling our Consciousness/minds/brains. That we essentially make our own reality, and that by using drugs (also yoga and spiritual practices) we can improve our ability to control our minds and brains and also weed out any bad impulses we might have - in essence we can become "programmers" of our reality, capable of controlling what we think, when and why. This is inherent in his 8th circuit model of consciousness, which I know at least one or two people on this message board have probably read in the form of Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson, which is a very good book.
I have seriously given a rundown of everything about timothy leary that's not retarded.

Another interesting thing about timothy leary and nearly anybody with a brain who thinks is that WHAT WE THINK MIGHT NOT BE REAL or accurate. How might this apply to drugs you might ask yourself, and that would be a good question. Just because you think you're having a meaningful, enlightening experience doesn't mean it's true.

What am I wrong about, how am I wrong?

I'm not "Positive" of something, I sat there and asked questions and provided pretty decent reasons for what i think. Just because you can't contradict them or add anything doesn't mean I'm desperate, if anything it makes YOU desperate. The desperation to attempt to prove me wrong in your lame ad hominem attack is obvious - try giving some reasons.

What analysis or chart did I post? Seriously, you're fucking stupid and you're the last person I want to hear about enlightenment or controlling your consciousness from - You're a fucking retard who is neither enlightened nor in control of your consciousness. Quit trying to act like you're smart. You haven't even read timothy leary, john c lilly, alduous huxley or probably any interesting book ever. I know more about this subject than you ever will, despite the fact that you are a "Psychologist."

You are also the one using statistical analysis of this. Because a percentage of retarded college students and your friends said they experienced meaningful MYSTICAL BREAKTHROUGHS while on LSD it means it can enlighten you? Couldn't it be that *shockfuckingappal* these people were retarded college students on drugs and thus would call ANYTHING meaningful? These are probably the same people who watch that pink floyd/wizard of oz synchronicity and think it's mystical and enlightening.

God this seriously gets me because if all your friends had ENLIGHTENING experiences and you did too, doesn't it stand to reason that you would be BETTER PEOPLE instead of a bunch of fucking idiots? Where's the enlightenment from the 60's? shouldn't all those acid heads have become supremely enlightened by now? HM FUCKING Hm. WHAT DOES USING THE BRAIN GET US?
Like i said, I know more about drugs and druggies than you probably ever will (I also have common-sense, a very useful tool). I've met tons of self-professed "Drug Gurus" who think they are enlightened because they took a lot of shrooms or because they smoke alot of Crystal DMT (one guy even thinks he is an alchemist because he makes crystal dmt). They aren't any smarter than most sober people i know. In fact, the ones who claim ardently that they receive enlightenment and mystical experiences are usually STUPIDER than most sober people i know.
Honestly, lenor, you're just frustrated because drugs are probably the only thing that makes you feel "cool" and "intelligent". You identify yourself by drugs. I doubt you even read this far.

kahljorn · #29

"duuude i have the powers of god and i control reality man" is probably the "reasoning" behind most druggies thinking they are enlightened. Honestly, it's just the EUPHORIA. Do we know what the word EUPHORIA means? It means you FEEL REALLY GOOD AND FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF. I seriously don't understand why I have to explain why this might make people feel like they are having enlightening experiences.

kahljorn · #30

Also, what is enlightenment?
And since you don't know, and neither do any of your stupid friends or the people I know who claim it, how can they be enlightened?
Do you know what it means to say you're something that you don't even know the definition of? I do. It means, "MALARKEY".

I hope my point has been well expressed and explains my position. I hope you can actually UNDERSTAND what I'm saying. Because I'm not saying that drugs aren't useful, or that they don't do things to the brain which are useful/helpful.

PS I also hope you realized that an important part of timothy leary's is in CONVINCING YOURSELF OF REALITIES. That's part of the reason why drugs are useful, because they help with the convincing. Do you see how people could become convinced they are enlightened from euphoria in that regard?

BlueOatmeal · #31

I like cocaine!

kahljorn · #32

So did Freud

I think Timothy Leary said that Cocaine is for treating psychological conditions based in the lower four circuits. Which would make some sense, since Freud's theories are encompassed in those first four and Freud also treated cocaine as a "MIRACLE WONDER DRUG THAT WILL CURE EVERYTHING."
Look where that sentiment is now

but don't worry guys acid will still enlighten you

Dole · #33

TROPICAL - I did acid a fair bit in my youth, but have absolutely no desire to do it these days. Its one of those things that is best done early-ish in life when REAL LIFE RESPONSIBILITIES AND CONCERNS are at a minimum.

Fuck spiritual enlightenment, it wont happen. Cool things will happen, you will think entertaining thoughts, see some mad patterns in things, realise the world is for the most part a ludicrous (yet comforting) charade... but as to getting closer to God or anything like that...ITS ALL BOLLOCKS.

the most important thing is make sure you are somewhere 'safe' with people you know, like and trust (ie dont do what me and me mates used to do, like walk into the centre of town on a saturday night. either stay in or go and sit in a nice park or the countryside or summat)

if you're experience is anything like mine, then...

Expect to feel kind of weird and uncomfortable in your own skin at some point

Expect to have a point in time several hours in where one of your party says (half seriously) 'this .....will end, right??'

Expect to have a several involved conversations with yer mates lasting several hours deciding whether to go and sit/stand over there, or remain sitting/standing over here. If you do go over there, your party will split into 2 warring factions, the 'I knew we should have stayed over there' lot and the 'no way! its much better over here!' chaps.

if you consume any booze/dope, expect to think 'I can't tell if I am drunk/stoned or not' for several hours, until you realise that yes, you probably are, a bit.

make sure you listen to some seriously monged music

you mantra shall be 'its only the acid, its only the acid'

dont start thinking about your normal straight bread-head square existence man. Because if you do, IT WONT MAKE ANY SENSE

ENNNNNNJOY

I only had one 'bad trip' and that was only because 2 policemen decided to come and have a nice conversation with me about what exactly I thought I was doing. My answer lasted several hours and covered an expansive range of subject material as I recall.

BlueOatmeal · #34

I never really thought about deep psychologial things when I was on coke. It was mostly "Man I'm really fucking horny!" and "This beer is REALLY good!"

Of course I'm a simpleton mouth-breather.

My friend use to do acid alot with his old friends in a barn and he said he had a hell of a time.He would tell me stories of stuff in the rafters and shaking this one dude that was tripping out and he peed on himself. Good Times

kahljorn · #35

lol. Dole gave a pretty accurate explanation of a drug trip ;o especially the first two eeks.

Blueoatmeal.. exactly. If I remember right leary guy said cocaine is good for Social-sexual situations and reimprinting them. So the example I gave of having a midget fetish and trying to get rid of it might've used cocaine. A lot of freud's theories had a lot to do with sex/sexual reproduction, probably because that's where we come from and where we go so it's kind of important (and most people consider it important) ;o

I reccomend staying in and listening to music and tripping or whatever, then after you've peaked going out and enjoying the euphoric feelings. That's what I did last time, we tripped for a while, then started drinking and took a walk to the park.

Geggy · #36

Tropical

I've never tried lsd because I was satisfied with the mushroom trips, but I always enjoy hearing other people's experience with lsd trips...so fill us in with the details as soon as you're done with it.

Lenor · #37

Kahl, true, when it comes to your post, I tend to fall asleep, while attempting to read throughout the endless paragraphs you divulge into.

Truth is, Ive done far more, involving drugs, then the majority of the people, put together, on this board.

Alexander Shulgan, one of my favorite chemist, and self-renowned psychoanalysis, wrote about his chemical induced experiences involving LSD, cocaine, and MDMA. For those that are sheltered, MDMA is also known as Ecstasy. Although, pure MDMA can not be compounded into a pill, thus the majority of pills being 'fake'.

I could talk about endless times when drugs have in some way or another 'enlighten' my mind, friendships, perspective, etc. But that is for me, and the people whom I was with to share with one another.

Maybe if you asked a certain person on this board, real nicely, they would let you in on the story of when 'Amber fed them lots of shrooms for their first time'

liquidstatik · #38

I JUST DO IT TO GET FUCKED UP GUYS WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT

sloth · #39

man i wish i had a favourite chemist

i just wouldnt know which one to choose

but i guess that just comes with the territory of being a drug aficionado

kahljorn · #40

Did you even read the stuff I said about timothy leary and the 8th circuit model of consciousness? prolly not ;( have you ever read Timothy Leary?
and what does "Enlightenment" mean?

"Truth is, Ive done far more, involving drugs, then the majority of the people, put together, on this board."

GO NINJA GO.

"could talk about endless times when drugs have in some way or another 'enlighten' my mind, friendships, perspective, etc."

You mean when you felt euphoric and bubbly happy and sat around hugging your friends telling them how much you loved them and the world because it's beautiful?

"But that is for me, and the people whom I was with to share with one another."
lol. "We shared the moment together feeling gay" and euphoric. Saying shit like that just reinforces what I'm saying.

I seriously doubt you've done more drugs than all the people on this message board combined. You're just a little girl who attaches meaning to meaningless things. You act the same way about drugs as you do about your message board friends. That's partly why you're so idiotic.
Anyway, Lenor is a good example of a "Drug Guru". "I do lots of drugs so that means I know a lot about psychology, philosophy and consciousness. It's almost like having a degree."

kahljorn · #41

my entire argument is that the euphoria allows you to contemplate ideas you wouldn't normally because of the euphoric nature which makes you feel good and thus more confident in ideas you wouldn't normally consider. Basically, it changes your perception because "happiness" isn't limited to your own perception.

This alexander shulgin guy is basically saying the same thing as me and timothy leary:
interview
"Do you think that the use of psychedelics can lead to a completely new form of perception? S: Not really. This is an extension of the question I just answered above. We have a handsome array of sensory skills normally at our disposal, and I believe that the psychedelics allow them to be more fully appreciated." he says something similar to what dead kennedies was saying after this

Do you think that all of the states of consciousness which psychedelics induce are naturally present in the human or are they sometimes a unique reaction created by the interfacing of the chemicals with the endogenous neurotransmitters?
S: I am a strong advocate of the hypothesis that psychedelic drugs do not do things, but rather they allow things to happen. All the states of consciousness that can be revealed have always been present within that remarkable organ we call the brain, but we normally remain ignorant of our potentials. There is no way that a few micrograms or milligrams of a simple white solid could have the property of producing a religious experience or of seeing a divine image, all tucked away in its crystalline lattice. It is we, as curious and uninformed individuals, who bring these new states of consciousness into our awareness. The drug is merely the catalyst that lets this happen.

Have you ever reached or come close to a plus 4 (++++) (by means of a drug, of course), if so, was it truly bliss and what produced it?
S: The +4 state is not simply a more intense place - it is a unique mental state that is a phenomenon unto itself. As Ann and I noted in PIHKAL, it is a rare and precious transcendental state which has been called a "peak experience," a "divine transformation" or a "state of Samadhi." It has been known to come from a drug experience, and it has been known to occur to a person spontaneously with no drug having been involved.

Blue Fox · #42

kahl is scaring me

Rongi · #43

you guys are crazy. i'll just stick to plain old marijuana, thanks

cocaine scares the shit out of me because i see how people get hooked and sell their car/house/baby for a hit. i would never touch that shit

acid, shrooms MDMA and the like i have yet to try. it's doubtfull i ever will. pot gets me happy and stupid, just how i like my highs