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VinceZeb · #76

Seems like you are trying at every oppurunity to prove how american you are, Max? Internal conflicts, perhaps?

Actually, life is black or white. You live or die. You see or dont. You live in a certain country or you don't. You bleed or you dont. The end results of life and death, good and evil, are black and white. The ways to get there are shades of grey.

Vibecrewangel · #77

One of my biggest gripes is that it appears that both sides disagree simply to disagree. Both have come up with some wonderful plans that are shot down by the other side for no dicernable reason other than "we have to disagree with them" (Okay, that and the fact that both sides are extremists) We need to find a way back to the middle ground or we are going to tear ourselves apart. All we need to do is look at this war to see how bad it has already become. There is middle ground.

The party system was designed to create a balance, to make sure that we never went too far to either side. Now, it seems they are striving to be bipolar. Maybe we need governmental prozac....

VinceZeb · #78

Both sides always have extremists. Speaking as a conserative with libertarian leanings, I feel (and can prove a lot) that the conserative P.O.V. is shunned or just the extremist side is shown, but when it comes to a liberal side of things, it is always apologized for and tone down.

I just want it down the line, even for every group or viewpoint that is valid. Liberals dont get their views passed by votes or by congress, they do so by judges. They destroy the govt with socalism and hedonism. And it isnt just the conseratives that say this. Libertarians hate liberals more than a conserative could even begin to try to.

VinceZeb · #79

But I appreciate the fact that you seem to want to know more about what is going on within the world. I applaud that. Too bad most people are mindless in the country, and unfortuantly with the dropping voting rates in this country, it is going to be the informed vs the sheeple and the rest will just live life like they were in the matrix.

Vibecrewangel · #80

And that is what scares me the most.........

VinceZeb · #81

Its very scary.

Vibecrewangel · #82

Republican Party - Less big government more local government. I love this concept. If only it were held too. Unfortunatly, (just like the democrats) they want total say so and total power. And not just here, they want to spread to the world.

VinceZeb · #83

Some republicans try to do it, just so they can get votes. A core republican doesnt want big govt, and libertarians want even less. Democrats on the other hand have been turned into Soviet Union Jr in the fact that they think our rights come from a govt and not from a Higher Power, in which the only thing govt should do is protect rights and not infringe on them.

Vibecrewangel · #84

It is sort of funny.....

The extremists on both sides are closer to the opposing party than they think.....

So far left you become right
So far right you become left

mburbank · #85

I love free speech. I support it whole heartedly. It's problematic and fraught with danger, but it's a principle american value.

Much as I hate neo nazis, I even supported their right to march in Skokie. I support Naldo's right to pray wherever and whenever he wants. He can even type a prayer in here. I don't llike many of the things which tumble out of Naldos mouth, but I support his right to say them and would be strongly against anyone who wanted to take that righht away from him.

I support naldos right to stand up at a football game and attempt to lead students in prayer. If he was arrested, I would help him get in touch with the ACLU.

Anonymous · #86

"Nazi's..... I hate Illinois Nazis"

Ronnie Raygun · #87

Max, you are against the right of a teacher to lead a class of students in prayer if they so choose to do so.

By doing that you are attempting to limit free speech which is against the 1st amendment.

sspadowsky · #88

Incorrect. As an agent of a government-sponsored institution, she is not allowed to lead a class in religious exercises. I imagine she would be welcome to invite students to an extracurricular religious function.
________
BODY SCIENCE

Anonymous · #89

I really am with Max on this one. I think this country needs to be be very careful in who we accuse as "non-americans." I will argue with people I oppose until the day I die, but I will never say they shouldn't be allowed to oppose me. The day this country defines what is ok and what is not ok, is the day we are no longer American. Luckily, I don't see our government doing that, but rather the public in general.

I do believe there are limits to freedom of speech, however. Obviously, treason is unacceptable, but, beyond treason, I believe it is unacceptable to obstruct business, or day to day life for anyone. However, these people are almost always dealt with legally, and without repercussions from the public. I don't know anyone who would say a anti-war activist group should be able to riot against police, or commit some other ridiculous act, without being punished.

As for prayer, I haven't seen the government really take that away from anyone, although I do have a concern with objection to the word God in the Pledge of Allegiance, as I do not believe this refers to anyone's God in general.

I also believe that prior to the United States taking out Saddam Hussein with our very first shot (because of our ridiculously incredible intelligence), he was proven to be in breach of UN Resolution 1441.

VinceZeb · #90

Then why did they have all those Muslim prayers and make kids do the make believe "living as a muslim" classes back after 9/11?

Why can we have symbols of Chanuaka and Kwanzaa (sorry, but the biggest bunch of bullshit ever. Even the GUY WHO MADE IT said it was bogus), but if we have a manger in a public school, the ACLU flies down and crushes it?

Sorry, but the public school system doesnt want Judeo-(mostly) Christian thoughts and ideas in there, because it may offend someone who hasn't ever had to wipe their own ass, although anything else is just an "creative expression of free speech."

Pub Lover · #91

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

it may offend someone who hasn't ever had to wipe their own ass, although anything else is just an "creative expression of free speech."

This is very much like the fact that white people can't say the word '******' without being racist. :/

kellychaos · #92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

"
Not true. There are many cases where kids are not allowed to pray in school.

If the kid is not impeeding education, those that are prohibiting him are wrong. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

"
What does that have to do with CONGRESS passing a law that respects religion?......Genius...

The teachers are government funded and represent the government ... the children who choose to pray on their OWN time while they happen to be in school are not. Get it genius?

ItalianStereotype · #93

they might be government funded, but every school district i have seen is an INDEPENDENT school district, meaning they are subject to their own regulation.

Jeanette X · #94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Endorses? Did I say that?

You said "directly opposes" the separation of church and state. I would take that to mean that you believe that church and state should be intertwined.

Jeanette X · #95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Forget it....I'll spare you the hardship.

Would you like to use school prayer for example. Why does the gov't get involved when students choose to pray at a football game or during school?

You oversimplify the issue. If students choose to pray on their own, or lead a prayer on their own, that is perfectly acceptable. But when teachers or coaches, who are government employees, lead the prayer, it amounts to an implicit endorsement of religion by the state, which is unacceptable.

And generally it is not the government which interferes, it often the ACLU.

Jeanette X · #96

[quote="Ronnie Raygun"]

"The government doesn't get involved if a kid wants to pray."

Not true. There are many cases where kids are not allowed to pray in school. quote]

Which cases?

Jeanette X · #97

[quote="VinceZeb"]Seems like you are trying at every oppurunity to prove how american you are, Max? Internal conflicts, perhaps?quote]

I think it was because he was accused of being un-American, not because he has any issues.

Jeanette X · #98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Max, you are against the right of a teacher to lead a class of students in prayer if they so choose to do so. .

Why must the teacher lead the prayer? Teachers are not clergy. Why not a student?

Jeanette X · #99

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

they might be government funded, but every school district i have seen is an INDEPENDENT school district, meaning they are subject to their own regulation.

But the consititution overrides all local law.