World War III???

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I've been thinking about this a lot, and I'm not sure where I personally stand on it yet, but do we have the "necessary" ground work for yet another world war...?

- The U.S. is on the verge of war w/ Iraq, quite possibly N. Korea, and I strongly believe Colombia will become the next issue we deal with (see "COUNTDOWN TO WAR" thread).
- We are quite possibly witnessing the end of one global treaty, NATO, as well as what may be the polarization of the UN and the U.S.
- Could a veto of this war pull America out of the UN? If so, what is the likelihood of Israel remaining in it as well?

I know every time talk of war begins, somebody drops the "WW III" factoid in, usually with little premise. But I don't know, am I off my rocker here...?

[mburbank]

I strongly believe W is leading up to withdrawl from the UN. Absolutely Israel would follow.

The potential for escalation lies not only in our actions, but in the doctrines they represent.

A scenario:
China surprisingly supports the UN resolution for war on Iraq. They also begin to put pressure on Client state North Korea. Shortly after a coalition including the Chinese invade, a large scale terrorist strike hits Beijing. The Chinese say they have proof(which cannot be shown beyond vague satelite pictures because the harder evidence is too sensative) it was the work of Taiwanese seperatists, and announce their intention to repatriate the island as a purely preemptive measure required by their national security. Should we threaten retalliation They will actively support North Korea's security goals. Russia, who might well have supported see this as leverage in their access to affordable Iraqi oil and delay any decision.

Another:
WMD are used by Al Quaeda against American interests in India. India is certain the Pakistani government supplied the weapons, but America pursues a theory that Iraq supplied the weapons, proving what we've been warning all along. India believes we know the Pakistani's are responsible but won't say so because of Pakistan's strategic influence in the region. With Significant support in the UN, India invades a preemtive invasion of Kashmir to root out terrorists, sparking a massive conventional war which could go nuclear.

The United states should be expending the wealth and power we are preparing to use for war to build and support global economic equity and a world court system. Is that a perilous path frought with the possability of suffering? Absolutely. But the path we are already more than half way down is as well. The path of peace could well feature horrible devastation up to and including the loss of entire cities. The path of war could lead to WWIII and complete chaos or near global anihilation.

The Chinese have made no secret they believe Taiwan belongs to them. India's national security actually is threatened by Pakistan. Do you think if foreign terrorists had entered our congress and killed several senators, we would have restrained ourselves to the degree India has as far a rettaliation goes? We as merican's tend to see the world through the lense of our national interest and passions, and this is natural. But we should not be blinded to the fact that this other countries see the world through the lense of their interests, their passions, which are no weaker than ours.

WWI was caused by multiple factors, but the triggering event was a single assasination by an Anarchist. I think we stand at such a juncture. The Anarchist who shot Arch Duke Ferdinand certinly got a lot of the Anarchy he wanted (althouigh not the ultimate destruction of all governments). I worry, likewise that before all is said and done, Bin Laden will have sparked far more suffering nd change then he dreamed of on September 11.

I do not by any means think a Third World War is unavoidable. But these are perilous times and we are standing on the brink. It will take wise people of great good will and vision all over the world to avert this.

[sspadowsky]

OK, Burbank, you make some compelling statements here. Now, then, I am making a rule, because the shit you're talking about is a lot scarier than Tom "Duct Tape can fix anything" Ridge has said so far.

For the next week you are allowed only to say funny things.

It will take wise people of great good will and vision all over the world to avert this.

So, in other words, we're probably screwed.
________
LovelyWendie99

[BombsBurstingInAir]

We heard the same things in Gulf War 1.

The United states should be expending the wealth and power we are preparing to use for war to build and support global economic equity and a world court system.

Maybe if those other socialist, dictatorships would develop a democratic, capitalistic society the world would be in better shape. Ya think?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to a world court!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[mburbank]

I was of voting age and then some during the gulf war nd remember it quite well. Our main goal there was to oust an invading army. I don't think we'd have ever been in that position if we hdn't screwed up royally by actively encouraging Sadam's Bath party during the Iran/Iraq war, but that's another conversation. In short, I don't recall any even remotely convincing WWIII scenario's at tht time that didn't hinge on our actively occupying Iraq.

There were many reasons George the first decided not to do so.

[mburbank]

Oh, and Sspad, I know that was scary and I llike being funny way better. But that's the kind of stuff that spins in my head a LOT these days and the way won't let me talk about it at home, which is probably good for me, not to mention the kids.

I think a lot hinges on the US rethinking the preemptive, strike first part of our current foreign policy as it applies to other nations. Bush will not be able to do that, even if he had a serious change if heart about it, which I don't see coming. Other's could in four or eight years, and they would not even need to be Democrats. It was, after all, Nixon who went to China.

On a lighter note my youngest daughter recently created the following song and sings it really loud whenever and wherever she feels the occasion calls for it.

"SHAKE YOUR BUM OUT TO MEEEEEEE.....
AND PUT IT ON THE TOP!!!!"

[KevinTheOmnivore]

This is why I fear thr President's UN rhetoric the most. I get very, VERY angry when I hear him, in all his audacity, claim that whether or not the UN allows him to have his war will prove whether or not the UN is still viable.

Whether we like it or not, Americans listen to this guy, who I truly don't think understands the possible consequences of his rhetoric. Polarizing the American public from the UN could be dangerous in my mind. I see a world like Post-WW I developing, where the hope of international association and dialougue break down and create misunderstandings and xenophobia.

[BombsBurstingInAir]

Whether we like it or not, Americans listen to this guy, who I truly don't think understands the possible consequences of his rhetoric.

So he is a big goof who is not as enlightened or as "smart" as most on the board, yet Americans listen to him. I guess these Americans are a bigger idiot than he? Are they Dittoheads or something? Millions of them?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Don't be so petty and naive. Take a nap, throw on a Carly Simon record, do something....

Popular presidents HAVE made mistakes before, even REPUBLICAN ones!!!

[BombsBurstingInAir]

Calm down big Kev, you didn't answer my question(s)...

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir

So he is a big goof who is not as enlightened or as "smart" as most on the board, yet Americans listen to him.

Americans also listen to Michael Moore, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and Dr. Phil. So what's your point here?

I guess these Americans are a bigger idiot than he? Are they Dittoheads or something? Millions of them?

I would say many people believe in the sanctity of the Executive branch, not so much the particular individual who may be in it. Clinton had high ratings, that must make all of his actions excusable, right?

[BombsBurstingInAir]

I'm speechless

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Carly Simon does the same thing for me. :hat